MSU w/o Narduzzi = Iowa?
** disclaimer - Rutgers week leads to other thoughts ** ** No talking MSU until we beat MSU, I know, I know.....***
Many here speculated that MSU would suffer without Narduzzi. When that didn't immediately happen, people made a quick conclusion that the key to the defense was really Dantonio.
However, the effect of a coach leaving takes a while (see Stanford post-Harbaugh).
Pat Narduzzi gave MSU elites defenses year after year from 2011-2014. They were a top level defense. It carried a middling, slow-developing conventional offense. It won them B10 Championships.
But, each year the MSU defense has gotten worse (as players coached up from Narduzzi have cycled through).
2013= #2 Total D; 2014 = #8 in TD; 2015 = #26 TD; 2016 = #30 TD so far.
2013 = #3 Scoring D; 2014 = #21 SD; 2015 = #24 SD; 2016 = #51 SD so far.
They are decidely an okay/mediocre defense now.
Concerns about their QB here and in the press are the wrong focus. Aside from Cousins, their QB play has not been great over the years. I know Cook had a good year last year, but a lot of that can be attributed to being bailed out by Burbridge.
From 2012-2015 MSU had a passing offense that ranked in about the 70s nationally on average EACH YEAR. QB play is not the reason they have fallen off.
Kirk Ferentz had some great years, especially early in his tenure. He won a couple B10 Championships and division championships. Iowa is always a "solidly-coached" team that has the potential to beat you, but they don't usually scare anyone.
MSU without Narduzzi looks a lot like Iowa City. (Of course with a chip aimed squarely at AA.)
EDIT: Its been a few years of this trend people. This is not based off 4 games!
October 4th, 2016 at 10:05 AM ^
I would just chalk all this up to having a couple of classes that had solid talent and now those players are gone. Their entire team isn't very good this year, not just the defense. Their O-Line is bleh, their D-Line is bleh, their QB is bleh, their linebackers are hurt, etc. I am skeptical of pointing at one single part of the game as THE reason a team is struggling.
October 4th, 2016 at 9:48 AM ^
You defected from Soviet-controlled Czechoslovakia for the freedom to post this nonsense?
October 4th, 2016 at 9:49 AM ^
I can't wait for the football season to start so we have something else to talk about.
October 4th, 2016 at 11:00 AM ^
October 4th, 2016 at 9:51 AM ^
State is saddled with a below average quarterback and a middling secondary right now. They have been recruiting well at both positions and have some talent in the barrel. They have a stable of really good running backs. They probably need a new offensive coordinator as their offense appears dated and they don't currently have an NFL arm to bail them out. They will likely continue to have a down season this year due to the talent that left last year and injuries to their linebackers(the strength of their defense), but then improve dramatically over the next couple of years. I think their defense will continue to improve as they get more experience from some of their younger players on the line and in the defensive backfield. No, they are not "done." No, they do not "suck." No, they are not Iowa.
October 4th, 2016 at 9:54 AM ^
Iowa does not equal "suck" or "done." Iowa won their division last year and is a solid program. Can you see the difference?
I am say8ing they will be solid. The question is whether they will ever regain -- on a consistant basis -- the one thing that made them the best of the Big Ten.
October 4th, 2016 at 10:00 AM ^
I tend to jump the gun sometimes on topics like these for two reasons. One, it makes us appear at times to be obsessed with Michigan State just as we claim that they are with us. Sometimes I don't see the need for Michigan State-specific topics as it is little brother-ish. I am not in favor of "Interesting Tyler O'Conner passing chart" threads either.
Second, the longer this board trends to discussions of Michigan State "regressing to the mean" and "coming back to reality," etc., the more the board is going to completely freak out when we are in absolute dog-fight in East Lansing. I think we should just let State be State. They will get Bullough back and possibly Reschke and be a tough customer by October 29.
October 4th, 2016 at 10:07 AM ^
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October 4th, 2016 at 12:10 PM ^
I agree on all accounts. I thought the TOC thread was dumb and then it occurred to me what the real issue was with MSU. I hesitated posting anything. I don't like to give them too much attention or respect, but then I thought... its Rutgers week...then another bye....then Illinois.... what do I have to look forward to.... oh yeah, the next big game. Maybe this thread is a few weeks premature.
I am just coming off the high of a ton 10 matchup and looking forward to games that are more than just potential stumbling blocks.....
October 4th, 2016 at 10:10 AM ^
October 4th, 2016 at 10:16 AM ^
I agree with everythig but the last sentence if you mean it the way I think you do. Iowa does not "suck" either. They are having a bad year. (I guess I sort of agree that MSU |= Iowa
October 4th, 2016 at 10:23 AM ^
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October 4th, 2016 at 10:51 AM ^
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October 4th, 2016 at 1:42 PM ^
they thought they'd save some money and get them from China. The pills are mostly chalk and the fluid version is saline solution.
October 4th, 2016 at 9:56 AM ^
EVERYONE NEEDS TO CHILL OUT ON CREATING MEANINGLESS MSU THREADS PLEASE
October 4th, 2016 at 9:57 AM ^
Beat rutgers.
October 4th, 2016 at 10:05 AM ^
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October 4th, 2016 at 10:17 AM ^
October 4th, 2016 at 9:59 AM ^
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October 4th, 2016 at 10:09 AM ^
Can we just be honest and admit that we are eager to beat MSU again? That's where this notion of 'obsession' originates. We think about it. Often. I do, anyway.
I'd like to think about other things. But, honestly, I don't have many interests.
October 4th, 2016 at 10:24 AM ^
October 4th, 2016 at 10:52 AM ^
It's kind of like having a big nasty scab. It's itchy, it sticks in your mind, and you have to wait to scratch it if you want it to heal properly.
I'd say the difference between MSU and Michigan is that MSU will pick of that scab... then keep digging until another one forms. Once we start beating MSU, I am going to forget about them.
#grosstakes
October 4th, 2016 at 12:06 PM ^
They are the next "big game" this year and recent history makes me think about it more than it should. I have no problem seeing that fade away in the months and years to come though.....
October 4th, 2016 at 10:11 AM ^
Iowa still has a better record than MSU.
October 4th, 2016 at 10:11 AM ^
Iowa still has a better record than MSU.
October 4th, 2016 at 10:16 AM ^
October 4th, 2016 at 10:13 AM ^
October 4th, 2016 at 10:21 AM ^
Shit, I'd say 7 out of 8 if I had won 9 out of 20 too.
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October 4th, 2016 at 10:34 AM ^
were on an incredible streak of lucky bounces/breaks, I will give you that. Yes, I guess it is true that you make your own luck, but that was getting a little ridiculous. It looks like they may have borrowed against future luck with the ending of the Michigan game last year and may be paying that back for some time.
October 4th, 2016 at 11:50 AM ^
Well put - and it's not to say that Narduzzi or Dantonio aren't good coaches (they are), it's that everything lined up for them the past decade with UM being lost at sea in terms of coaching and partially recruiting.
It's always tough to say "what if" but considering their best player (McDowell) likely would come to UM if he was a 2017 recruit speaks volumes.
October 4th, 2016 at 10:26 AM ^
October 4th, 2016 at 1:44 PM ^
Mike?
October 4th, 2016 at 10:42 AM ^
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October 4th, 2016 at 12:07 PM ^
I agree. Then Hoke came along and changed the recruiting but was outclassed as an x's and o's coach. Now with Harbaugh we have the whole package.
October 4th, 2016 at 10:43 AM ^
October 4th, 2016 at 10:48 AM ^
But what if MSU were in the BigTen West ..........? Hmmm ....hmmmmm....?
October 4th, 2016 at 10:50 AM ^
2002-2004 Iowa under Ferentz was pretty good. Tied for two conference titles and three consecutive top 10 finishes. Then they started trending downward towards mediocrity. I think we have to see how the next season or two goes before officially calling this Iowa-East.
October 4th, 2016 at 10:54 AM ^
Dantoni won the national championship at Ohio without Narduzzi... its the steriods you have to wonder about....
October 4th, 2016 at 10:58 AM ^
They are both mostly middling programs that occasionaly make treks into the top 10.
October 4th, 2016 at 11:01 AM ^
is that both teams have now lost 2 games in a row. Very hard to have any mental mojo when the shit has hit the fans 2 games in a row. Undefeated teams have no reason to think twice about winning and this give the mental edge to anyone who's unbeaten right now. Long season left to go ... but the longer any team stays unbeaten, the harder it will become for anyone to beat them.
For Michigan this is especially true as they have a solid unit no matter which one is on the field. We can win an offense game and a defensive game and overall our special teams have played as good as anyone (tho - FG kicking MUST improve).
Go Blue!
October 4th, 2016 at 11:04 AM ^
October 4th, 2016 at 12:06 PM ^
And Harbaugh can show the film of last years game.
Motivation won't be an issue for either team in that game.
At the end of the day I think we have the better offense and better x factor player in Peppers.
October 4th, 2016 at 11:16 AM ^
October 4th, 2016 at 12:19 PM ^
While Carr was coach, maybe a year before he retired, a former Bo player told me specifically, that Carr has really let slide, the recruiting. At the time he told me, I thought it was peculiar, and it turned out to be spot-on... maybe the Les Miles parkinsons rumor thing, really took hold with the top recruits.
October 4th, 2016 at 1:42 PM ^
or could no longer get kids out of Ohio after Tressel built a wall
October 4th, 2016 at 11:30 AM ^
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October 4th, 2016 at 11:33 AM ^
MSU will regress to their historical mean because that's what programs generally do....especially those in competition with blue bloods like UM, OSU and Notre Dame for recruits. They will go back to being a 7-5 team on average, that continues to play their super bowl against UM and finds a way to beat us / ruin our season once every 4-5 years.
Dantoccinio is good coach that was able to get the most out of 3 star recruits that stayed for 5 years and he built a system where upper classmen were playing 80% of the snaps. He took advantage of both UM (poor coaching) and PSU (enabling pedos) having lean years and pulled in enough Michigan, Pennsylvania, and Ohio (generally guys OSU didnt want) players to build a solid program.
With Harbaugh and Meyer in place, MSU is returning to their rightful place as a mediocre program. All the insufferable Sparty fans will also go in to hiding except for that 2 times a decade they beat UM and boast about ruining the season. Dantorollio hit the ceiling lat year by making the playoff and winning the Rose Bowl prior to that (no small feat when selling a landfill stadium to recruits). Now it's back to their hole and decades of irrelevance.
October 4th, 2016 at 11:52 AM ^
The Staee 2-3 wins a decade will generally come on fluke plays such as "the clock game", the "Desmond trip in the endzone", or last year's "punt drop 6". Sparty regression actually already began last year, as they are back to beating us on miracles.
Little brother will return to getting no respekt and the shoulder chips will grow heavier.