Michigan up to #10 on KenPom

Submitted by ThatGuyCeci on

6th best defensive efficiency in the nation... I'm curious as to what the committee will seed us next Sunday. I think a 3 seed is reachable, but the argument could be made for a 2 seed if we beat Purdue tomorrow, IMO.

greymarch

March 3rd, 2018 at 5:13 PM ^

Only thing UM is guaranteed of as I type this is a #5 seed in the NCAA tourney.  Why?  Because UM already defeated Sparty at East Lansing, so defeating Sparty at a neutral site doesnt add much to UM's resume.

 

If UM wins the B1G tourney tomorrow, especially by defeating Purdue, a team thaty defeated UM twice this season, then UM would deserve better than a #4 seed and would likely get a NCAA #3 seed.

 

J.

March 3rd, 2018 at 5:14 PM ^

You have to look beyond head-to-head.  MSU is quite likely to be seeded ahead of Michigan; they have similar résumés at the top end, but then MSU has wins where Michigan has losses (e.g., @Northwestern).  Also, @Nebraska and vs. LSU are both hurting Michigan's chances.

snarling wolverine

March 3rd, 2018 at 5:18 PM ^

Sparty's schedule was a frigging joke.  They beat one tournament team in this calendar year.  

But as I said, everyone besides UM and OSU was unbelievably, comically un-clutch against them, and they scraped out the most unimpressive 29-win record in history, which will probably impress the dumb old men on the committee.

 

 

J.

March 3rd, 2018 at 5:21 PM ^

That's true.  But, Michigan only has 3 wins over tournament teams this calendar year themselves, and MSU only has two losses, both to UM, while Michigan has 4, two of which are to bad or mediocre teams.

I mean, I'm not all that impressed by winning at Northwestern either... but I sure wish Michigan had done so. :(

snarling wolverine

March 3rd, 2018 at 5:34 PM ^

We're not really disagreeing.  I expect MSU to get the nod over us.  

I just don't think they are anywhere near as good as their record, which is what's annoying.  They played a crap schedule and didn't even look good against it, but managed to win over and over by the skin of their teeth.

Take the Northwestern game.  NW played them without McIntosh and still led by 27, only to gag it away.   Of course they were at full strength against us and McIntosh had his best game of the year...

SpartyJon

March 3rd, 2018 at 6:21 PM ^

When they were still really good. Michigan is better than the 5th best team in the Big Ten, and every seeding system and metric agreed. I'd love a balanced schedule - but we have 4 teams too many to do that. Is MSU as good as 29-4 against a tougher schedule? I don't know. Probably not, but State's worse loss is @OSU.

BigBlue02

March 3rd, 2018 at 8:55 PM ^

MSU’s entire resume for the year consists of wins over 2 teams projected to make the tournament. 2. Total. Their worst loss being @OSU is solely due to them not playing anyone else on the road. And I would say getting your shit kicked in by 10 at the Bres by us is a much worse loss than @OSU

SpartyJon

March 4th, 2018 at 7:35 AM ^

Losing to a kenpom top 10 at ANY venue is hard to call a bad loss. The Jan 13 loss certainly FELT worse, that's for sure. But OSU is 16th in Kenpom and, road game or not, MSU had no business getting run out of Columbus by a team PSU beat 3 times.

Mr Miggle

March 3rd, 2018 at 8:28 PM ^

Detroit is the closest site to Xavier and Purdue. If they are ranked higher than MSU, as seems likely, I think their pods will be there.

At least that's how I understand it. The #1 and #2 overall seeds get to play closest to home.  Then #3 gets the closest that's still available and so on through the 4 seeds, with two pods of four teams at each 1st/2nd round site. 

As a 4 or 5 seed, we'll get whatever site is left. With the current projections, either Boise or San Diego would be my guess.

J.

March 3rd, 2018 at 5:13 PM ^

I think Michigan is playing fanastic basketball right now, but this is still not the résumé of a 2 seed.  Too many losses, too much RPI poison, not enough good wins.

And Detroit still looks unrealistic to me.  If they lose to Purdue tomorrow, I think they're locked out of Detroit -- and I'd say it's not really likely even with a win.  One game just doesn't move the needle that much.

BTW: #9 on Torvik.

BuckNekked

March 3rd, 2018 at 5:44 PM ^

By the eye test we are a two seed no doubt. Thats not what the committee looks at though.

How does the RPI and SoS get formulated to begin a season when everyone is 0-0? Ive watched quite a bit of SEC and Big 12 basketball and neither of those leagues are any better than the B1G yet similar teams from those leagues seem to be ranked quite a bit higher. I guess what Im asking is if there is a bias of perception to begin the season? I look at a team like Nebraska or Penn State and wonder why they arent even bubble teams while other leagues are getting 8 teams in.

J.

March 3rd, 2018 at 7:40 PM ^

The RPI is based entirely on the current season.  If you look at it in November, it's complete garbage. (I mean, it's still mostly garbage in March, but it's completely nuts in November).  For example, Michigan's RPI prior to Maui was #140.  Nobody really thought that they were the 140th-best team in the country; there just wasn't enough data to go on yet.

Any SOS numbers that you see are also based upon the current season.  They're also pretty much garbage early in the season.

The biggest component to SOS calculations -- as well as perception -- is interconference play, and that's not a strength for the Big Ten this year.  Take a look:  https://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/bracketology/conference/con…

6-14 vs the ACC.  3-2 vs the American.  1-5 vs. the Big 12.  8-7 vs the Big East.  4-1 vs. the Pac 12.  2-4 vs the SEC.  In aggregate, that's 24-33 against the top 6 non-Big Ten conferences, or a 0.421 winning percentage.

By contrast, the Big 12 is 6-1 vs. the ACC, 5-3 vs the American, 2-2 vs. the Big East, 5-1 vs the Big Ten, 4-3 vs the Pac 12, and 8-10 vs the SEC, or 30-20 -- a .600 percentage.  The ACC is 5-2 vs the American, 1-6 vs the Big 12, 2-3 vs the Big East, 14-6 vs the Big Ten, 3-1 vs the Pac-12, and 9-6 vs the SEC -- 34-24 (0.586).

The second-biggest contribution to perception -- but not the computer rankings -- is whether or not teams that were expected to do well did so.  The Big Ten lost a lot of cachet because Minnesota, Wisconsin, Northwestern, and Maryland all played far below expectations.  To overcome that, the middle-tier teams like PSU or Nebraska needed to have flawless résumés.  Losing to Illinois (Nebraska) or Rider (PSU) was catastrophic due to the lack of strength elsewhere in the conference.

SpartyJon

March 3rd, 2018 at 5:41 PM ^

Yeah they're a Big East team and have 27 wins, but they're 75th in defense. I could see if they were #1 or #2 in offense, but they're 7th. I think they should be a 2 seed unless they somehow win the Big East tournament - not a guaranteed #1 if they make the conference finals.

Kwitch22

March 3rd, 2018 at 11:41 PM ^

If they are either a 1 or a 2, they will be sent to Detroit, they are going to be the highest seeded Big 10 foot print team. Purdue will be the second highest, but may be sent to Nashville. State should be about a five seed, only 3 quadrant 1 victories? That is weak

J.

March 3rd, 2018 at 7:55 PM ^

Can absolutely be MSU.  Michigan's résumé is obviously getting better by the day; it was really nice of Penn State to get into the top 75, and I think they'll probably hang there.  But the two bad losses -- particularly at Northwestern -- are absolute boat anchors compared to MSU.  They might use head-to-head as a tiebreaker, but I don't think those résumés are tied.

FWIW, Xavier actually appears to be approximately equidistant bewteen Detroit and Nashville, though.  I will grant that there is an outside possibility that if Michigan climbs high enough on the S-Curve, they could share Detroit with MSU and Xavier could get sent to Nashville.

However, I still expect UM to be passed by one or more teams that get hot during their conference tournaments, and I don't think Detroit is a particularly realistic destination.  I'd sure take it, though. :)

cheesheadwolverine

March 3rd, 2018 at 5:16 PM ^

Nah. The committee still goes by RPI even if they say they don't -- we'll get a clown seed.  But if we can do this to Sparty when shots aren't falling for one half, if shots do fall, why can't we make a final four run from the five spot if we have to?

J.

March 3rd, 2018 at 5:18 PM ^

Michigan is up to 17th in RPI.  Last year's 7 seed was a "clown seed," but I don't think a 5 is unreasonable.  If the Big Ten had its usual 7 or 8 tournament teams, and Michigan had the same record agains them, this would be a 3-seed résumé, but the league fell apart this year.

mistersuits

March 3rd, 2018 at 5:24 PM ^

Kentucky, West Virginia (to Texas), and Clemson all went down today as teams directly above Michigan on the matrix. Michigan should pass all three and be right on the 4/5 line. A 3 or 4 seed is likely with a BTT championship, but almost certainly a 5-seed with a loss to Purdue (with an outside chance at a 4-seed).

The Fan in Fargo

March 3rd, 2018 at 5:26 PM ^

Four seed for sure I'd say. Three seed if the good guys beat Purdue or play them down to the wire. Purdue looks like a bunch of puds at this very moment. Very beatable team and not in their home arena.