Let’s talk about our recruiting
I am someone who falls in the middle of the “stars matter” group and the “trust the coaches” group. I think it’s important that we start getting more elite recruits, but I also don’t throw my hands up in disgust whenever we take a three star. On paper, this is Harbaugh’s lowest rated class according to average player rating on 247. But am I alone in thinking that this class is very underrated? I think this year especially, probably due to lack of scouting from Covid, we have quite a few guys that the staff feels are “high 4 star” value and they are rated as 3 stars.
With that being said, Harbaugh assembled this coaching staff to improve recruiting. Most of the coaches on the staff are young, and the hope was that we would start pulling in some more elite players. So far that has not been the case. With us being in the top 10 and Harbaugh looking secure, it would be really nice if we would start to hear some noise about some elite 2023 players. What are your overall thoughts on recruiting with this staff moving forward?
November 19th, 2021 at 12:34 AM ^
MSU is paying their players a salary. Maybe we can start with that.
November 19th, 2021 at 5:32 AM ^
And Michigan is giving their players money from the sale of their merchandise at the MDen. Why is MSU not doing that from their store?
This is my point. You complain about something Michigan ISN’T doing but fail to acknowledge the things Michigan is doing that others are not.
November 19th, 2021 at 6:11 AM ^
Most of the players probably make $0 from MDen sales…
November 18th, 2021 at 9:32 AM ^
Lots of guys came from the NFL, you just don't create recruiting relationships over night. It will take time and probably will impact future classes after 22.
Winning also helps recruiting.
November 18th, 2021 at 10:39 AM ^
Winning also helps recruiting.
So does selling Michigan jerseys in Ohio.
We're still doing that joke, right?
November 18th, 2021 at 1:07 PM ^
Are we done? Never in a million years.
November 18th, 2021 at 1:38 PM ^
One thing I haven't seen yet is a current committed recruit who is leading the charge to recruit the class. It's become apparent that these HS students have every means of communication and media to stay in touch, so a lot times they are building those friendships and team mentality before they even step on campus. Need to find another JJ-like HS recruiter imo.
November 18th, 2021 at 2:07 PM ^
Will Johnson is that guy
November 18th, 2021 at 9:33 AM ^
I don't really want to.
November 18th, 2021 at 9:38 AM ^
i'd rather talk about something less controversial, like politics
November 18th, 2021 at 11:33 AM ^
Or religion.
November 18th, 2021 at 1:03 PM ^
Parvo isn't real. Unmask the dogs!
November 18th, 2021 at 4:04 PM ^
Just talked to someone (yesterday) who lost a dog to parvo. What strange timing.
November 18th, 2021 at 9:38 AM ^
They really need to close on Domani, Deone Walker, and Josh Conerly Jr. Three big pickups....
Last I heard Domani was a Bama lean but who knows.
As for 2023 - please setup the pipeline and get Dante Moore.
November 18th, 2021 at 11:24 AM ^
Domani literally de-committed from USC because of a visit to Alabama. I'd call that more than a lean.
November 18th, 2021 at 1:16 PM ^
Tilt?
November 18th, 2021 at 1:37 PM ^
Maybe a tilt with a strong wind gust coming from the west while facing east.
November 18th, 2021 at 9:39 AM ^
The class is not complete yet.
November 18th, 2021 at 9:57 PM ^
This.
Panic and run around worrying.
November 18th, 2021 at 9:42 AM ^
I am hoping for a really strong finish with this class. With the D staff being all new/unproven and the Head Coach's hot seat coming into the season it hurt us. The next class should be a big jump. We should have OL recruits lining up with the new focus on the run game.
November 18th, 2021 at 12:27 PM ^
....and ZERO WR recruits.
November 18th, 2021 at 12:53 PM ^
If Michigan could learn to use the portal that problem could be solved, that goes for the DL as well. But next season WR will be one of our strengths.
November 18th, 2021 at 1:59 PM ^
"learning to use the portal" would also require admissions being more lenient re transfer credits.
November 18th, 2021 at 1:59 PM ^
"learning to use the portal" would also require admissions being more lenient re transfer credits.
November 18th, 2021 at 3:23 PM ^
Tyler Morris?
November 18th, 2021 at 9:42 AM ^
For me the issue isn’t star as much as the staff identifying a player and losing out this class. I could be wrong but it appears a lot of the commits were 2nd and 3rd options. Last season for some reason had a crazy negative impact on UMs perception nationally and among recruits, more so than any other program. PSU and sTATE had terrible years last yeah and are doing much better so I don’t get that excuse. PSU is having a mediocre year in 21 and holding on to some highly touted players, even with the cocaching speculation. Just weirdness IMO and I’m having trouble figuring it out. I did figure that UM with the resources available would be ahead of the NIL stuff and would level out some of the”crootin” scenarios from years past.
Although a finish of Domani, Connerly, and both walkers would obviously change what this class is…take a flier on another QB and get Josephs to come back around.
November 18th, 2021 at 9:59 AM ^
The big difference is that there was a lot of noise and speculation about Michigan firing Harbaugh. There was no such speculation about Franklin or Tucker. The big thing that matters to recruits is program trajectory. It is very easy for Tucker to sell an upward trajectory right now. Harbaugh can going forward with our improvement this year, but you can't go back in time to undo all the negativity that was going on from November 2020 until September/October 2021.
November 18th, 2021 at 11:51 AM ^
Fair enough, I see this as a misstep for the AD then. I’d hope that 7 years in the Harbaugh's gone to NFL or being fired noise wouldn’t resonate any longer seeing as it’s been said since he got here one way or another.
stil weird why then Penn St. hasn’t had more decomits with the past two season they’re having and the narrative around Frames I mean he seems in prepared and his focus is elsewhere.
November 18th, 2021 at 12:45 PM ^
This has been discussed and you are correct - it was an misstep for the AD. They basically waited around to see if anybody wanted to hire JH, then restructured his contract at the last minute (other teams will negative recruit you to death with one year left on a contract with no extension). They really made it seem like they didn't want him back, but then took him back once there was no other choice. It wasn't a great look, and IMO put them behind in recruiting. On top of that, the staff transition definitely cost them a few guys. I expect them to finish fairly well, but since they were late on so many guys, there might be a few more fliers than usual.
I know the "3 star haters" will roll their eyes and the "trust the coaches" will nod vociferously, but it is worth noting that it is very likely this years recruiting rankings, especially for individual players, will probably be more off than usual. This does not mean I think every guy in the class is underrated. However, you are seeing some pretty crazy jumps in guys over at 24/7 as the evaluations that were never made last year finally start coming in. As we know, Rivals and ESPN tend to fire and forget more often so you're also seeing huge disparity between 24/7 and the composite.
November 18th, 2021 at 9:44 AM ^
I really hope Michigan will take advantage of NIL to improve recruiting here but i just have my doubts. 2022 is a weird class and i dont take much from it other than to trust the coaches, Covid really messed up the senior high school players years. I wouldn't trust much from the sites on 2022 regarding star ratings.
November 18th, 2021 at 9:48 AM ^
Yeah this class doesn't look that great right now but the 2023 class needs to be elite. Unfortunately I don't think it will be, I think it will be pretty damn good tho. Michigan will never use the NLI the way they should and need to, to compete with bama and OSU.
Recruiting definitely needs to be better, more wins should help that, but if you are expecting top 5 classes year in and year out that's not going to happen
November 18th, 2021 at 9:49 AM ^
Is a bit strange to see so many guys with long standing relationships with the team seemingly trending elsewhere after a huge win.. Domani, Josh Joseph's, D. Walker and even M'ba
November 18th, 2021 at 1:01 PM ^
What huge win? While the record and the team generally looks good, we lost to msu and squeaked by psu. If we don't beat osu, there is no huge win this year....again.
November 18th, 2021 at 9:53 AM ^
If they close with Walker and Conerly Jr. then that's going to be a pretty good class.
I also looked back the 2018 class, another "lower rated" class (.88 average recruit, same as this one) where they took a lot of guys they liked who maybe weren't as highly rated, and it's...looking pretty good. Hutchinson in the headliner but you've got Haskins, Ronnie Bell, Green and Gray, Mayfield and Hayes, Cam McGrone, etc. It's a pretty good class, and one that has been key to this year's resurgence.
I do think this year's class has been hurt by the dual issues of uncertainty around Harbaugh and the staff turnover. But they still have some good pieces on the board and success now will only help going forward.
November 18th, 2021 at 10:18 AM ^
From listening to some of Lorenz's comments, I feel like this comparison is almost intentional. In 2018, the staff felt like they were coming off two great recruiting classes with players that could contribute early. They targeted scouted players with high ceilings. Even some of the highly rated ones like Mayfield and McGrone were risers who went from randoms to elite recruits, but these were still scouting wins. I think last year the staff started looking back and realized that these scouting wins were more productive than the recruiting wins. So I think they have started to lean into some of the guys the discover vs the guys everyone is recruiting.
I think there needs to be a mix, but I don't disagree that dumping a ton of resources into a recruiting battle for a low 4* doesn't make much sense when you can find an equivalent player out of nowhere. Save the effort for the Domani Jacksons and Josh Conerlys.
November 18th, 2021 at 10:49 AM ^
Most of Harbaugh's staffs have actually done a pretty good job ID'ing guys on the rise and then developing them into solid players. If anything, the higher-rated guys have been a bit more of a mixed bag (thinking DPJ, Bredeson, Gary to an extent, Charbonnet) when it comes to hits vs. misses, which is understandable but means it may not be the worst idea to go after guys you like and then rolling with them. And some of the guys they got to early turned into big-time guys (Worthy jumps to mind, but there are others).
My general approach to recruiting is that there should be a baseline of talent but the functional difference between the #50 and #125 guy in national rankings probably isn't as large as the 75-ranking difference actually is. If you like the guy and can see how he's going to develop at your school that's more valuable than someone who watched a couple of clips and maybe saw him at a camp 4 months ago.
November 18th, 2021 at 9:55 AM ^
It’s been said before, but Michigan had a terrible year last year w/ talk of our head coach being on the hot seat. More than anything else, that’s what kills a recruiting class. The success Michigan is having now should pay off next year, especially if they get two players drafted in the Top 10, which seems probable at this point.
Also, the transfer rules make me pay less attention to recruiting classes. You can have your best recruits leave after their FR yr if they see better opportunity elsewhere, and on the flipside, you can completely rebuild your roster in one offseason by getting the right kids in.
November 18th, 2021 at 9:56 AM ^
Michigan will occasionally get a 5 star guy as it always has, but don’t think it will ever match the level of OSU for reason we already know about. The key will be development of players, something Michigan has not been consistent at doing.
November 18th, 2021 at 9:57 AM ^
I'm incredibly disappointed that there haven't been any creative NIL strategies developed yet (like those that have been suggested for us). We are supposed to have some of the best business minds in the world at U-M, and Michigan football has tremendous value potential for the university if we get amongst the elite again. I don't get how this isn't a massive priority. It's so simple.
November 18th, 2021 at 11:09 AM ^
We are supposed to have some of the best business minds in the world at U-M
Are business schools at other institutions getting directly involved in NIL stuff? I confess I'm not paying close attention, but from what I've read it seems like it's mostly local business types—car dealers, retail stores, insurance agencies, etc—that are fashioning the deals elsewhere. These are the kinds of businesses that have been funneling cash to athletes for decades already, and NIL is just going to put a legal gloss on all that.
I've been skeptical that the top grads from Ross who are working for major financial institutions and multi-national corporations are going to be focused on what are essentially local licensing deals for UM athletes.
November 18th, 2021 at 11:42 AM ^
Agreed. I think there is a misunderstanding here. The professors and graduates have bigger fish to fry. The students would think it's cool to do NIL but they're not professionals. And the Ross administration most likely doesn't see adding projects with athletics as worthwhile.
November 18th, 2021 at 12:20 PM ^
I think that's how the NIL stuff is happening now, organically (e.g., car dealership ads).
But all it would take it a simple organized initiative with a pooled fund that boosters could donate into that would be used to systematically pay our players. It would just take a couple million (chump change to our alumni base) to be able to pay all scholarship players $20-30K per year. It could be scaled based on games started or performance or whatever, if you want. In exchange, players could make their "likenesses" available for advertisements for whomever contributes to the pot.
I'm not saying that all B School faculty should drop their research agendas and focus on this, but ffs, Michigan football earns the university $120M per year (!) so you'd think they could hire at least one full-time MBA who's job it is to figure this out.
November 18th, 2021 at 12:41 PM ^
This simply comes back to our administration not wanting to help at all. They have so far not allowed the student athletes to use the block M ‐ why the fuck not???
Is our athletic department actually helping out in contacting local businesses and alums to help with this effort, or are they being held back by our lame duck Ivy League president???
We will not even come close to Bama's alleged $700k for their qb with our unorganized, lackadaisical efforts. Doing signings at the M-Den and some jersey sales will fall woefully short of the other schools. This is NOT what 5 / 4 star recruits want to see.
The Michigan Indifference!
November 18th, 2021 at 1:27 PM ^
I don't know that it is indifference so much as it is what I think some of us thought might be the case - the University Of Michigan is very strange about its brand and overly protective of its brand equity in some now rather important ways. It casts a great shadow over not only Ann Arbor but Washtenaw County generally, for starters, as the largest employer in both the city and the county (and a fairly substantial employer in western Wayne County too with its numerous outpatient centers), and its money drives the local economy in a way nothing else does, but they are very, very selective about where they make an active appearance, if you will, and they always have been. Now, yeah, that isn't exactly compatible with a maximally effective NIL strategy.
November 18th, 2021 at 3:27 PM ^
That may be true, but having worked at Michigan for several years at a reasonably high level (no humblebrag), 2 comments are mentioned again within the administration:
- We are 18 schools and colleges joined together by a football team, and
- Football is the front door to the university.
November 18th, 2021 at 1:02 PM ^
It would just seem so natural that so many extremely smart people in the business school could help local businesses and the such, develop NIL for the athletes.
November 18th, 2021 at 9:57 AM ^
With that being said, Harbaugh assembled this coaching staff to improve recruiting.
I hope that's not the primary reason. Definitely hope it impacts it, but the coaching of the defense was a mess. Clearly there was some weird OL coach thing with Warinner where we loved him until everyone hated him. We lost some depth and some recruits with the changes - but other than Clink (which i'm not seeing yet) and Bellamy (see previous), the rest were NFL (EDIT: or other) coaches with nobody to bring with them.
We can equate youth to recruiting all we want, but nothing relates to kids we want more than winning - ask Dabo and Saban. Saban is a dinosaur - but it doesnt matter.
I think the hope has to be that JJ has us playing a brand of offense that is appealing to elite playmakers on offense and that our defense becomes feared once again. Nothing about this offense (right now) gets a WR excited. Yes, we've opened it up a bit, but nothing major. I'm not even sure if RBs want to bludgeon like Hassan does - takes a special breed for that. Dynamic offenses are hitting homeruns with their WRs, TEs, and RBs. Ours takes a base to base approach with a lot of sacrifice bunts (field goals).
Its said that the reason we're lowly ranked is because the cycle was screwed up because of COVID - but that doesnt explain losing out on a lot of top guys we thought we led for or guys at the top of the board, only to settle for a lower ranked player. Also, its pretty simple. Would you rather have OSU's, A&Ms, Bama's class.. or ours?
Hard to get upset about it, but nobody seems to have a sensible conversation about it without getting emotional that we arent getting the usual haul of 4 stars.
Seems like Walker and Jackson are unlikely and I dont know what Conerly is waiting for at this point with UW's implosion.
Wah.
November 18th, 2021 at 10:29 AM ^
You're not the first to state most of the new coaches are from the NFL.
McDonald and Weiss are the only ones. Hart came from Indiana. Helow came from Maryland. Clink from Kentucky and Bellamy from HS.
One issue with the new coaches is that they may have not been targeting the same level of prospects that we want at Michigan, Clinkscale mostly being the exception to that.
November 18th, 2021 at 12:00 PM ^
perhaps most is a bad word. lets say - the D-Coord is from the NFL and a relative unknown. This isn't Rex Ryan coming through the door. I think that is a bigger deal than some position coaches being more college-familiar.
November 18th, 2021 at 9:58 AM ^
Have to roll with the times and change as needed, going to have to use the transfer portal, we don’t seem to replace what we lose in the portal and it will catch up with us.