Is John Beilein bitter about Biefeldt transfer?
Wtka just played Beilein's press conference from yesterday. There was a question about 5th year grad transfers and how they can be like free agents and does he think it is good or bad for the game.
"JOHN BEILEIN: I think we’re in a dangerous area there where you have the graduate transfer, and then where he can go afterwards and things like that, like we actually have one in our league. Those are difficult things, I think, that we have to look at in the future, and what is the real purpose that have? Is that young man going there just to play basketball? Is he going there to get his Masters degree? How many are getting their Masters degrees? There’s got to be some legitimacy to that rather than just another year of eligibility?
So the mid-majors that are getting to having their best players taken from them — you remember, a guy — there’s a reason a guy has a fifth year, that somewhere during that year he was injured, he had doctors, he had trainers, he had people looking after him at his home school. And now he’s going to take everything they did to another school, right? That’s not necessarily fair to anybody. Or fair to the home school that did all that work, the coaches that worked with them.
So we’ve got to be very careful of this area. I trust the NCAA is looking at it closely and hopefully will continue to make the right strides to make it a situation that really fits everyone much better."
This is the second time this year I have heard Beilein be very critical of the grad transfer rule. I don't ever remember him being critical of this rule before this year. If he wanted to keep Biefeldt he had plenty of opportunities. Beifeldt made it clear he didn't want to leave he wanted to finish his career at Michigan. How would it be fair to take away the opportunity to transfer from a 5th year player you don't want anymore?
March 18th, 2016 at 11:05 AM ^
Beilein pushed Beifeldt out to open a spot of Jaylen Brown, it only backfired because he couldn't seal the deal recruiting. To go back and complain about the graduate transfer rule after that because Beifeldt developed more in one year with the Indiana staff then in 4 here is some bullshit we make fun of the sec for. Develop big men better and maybe this wouldn't have been such an issue.
Not that I think Beifeldt really would have helped this team that much. Defensively are issues were getting dominate down low by physical beasts and not having a rim protector to cover up for the easy dribble penetration we gave up and offensively our issue is not having anyone that can create or breakdown a defense with an individual play. Beifeldt doesn't address any of those issues.
March 18th, 2016 at 11:26 AM ^
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March 18th, 2016 at 11:35 AM ^
I don't think anybody is saying he would have made us an elite team. We're probably an 8 seed with a few more wins which is still better than this year.
March 18th, 2016 at 11:08 AM ^
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March 18th, 2016 at 12:11 PM ^
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March 18th, 2016 at 11:18 AM ^
fire Beilein.
rabble, rabble
March 18th, 2016 at 11:21 AM ^
When did I say fire Beilein? I like him and think he is a great coach. But that doesn't make him perfect.
March 18th, 2016 at 11:26 AM ^
If you disagree with Beilein, you want him fired apparently. We can't be upset with the team apparently. Making the field of 68 is all we need to do. Losing by 40 at one point in the game at home to MSU is all perfectly acceptable. /s
March 18th, 2016 at 11:40 AM ^
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March 18th, 2016 at 11:31 AM ^
Max did nothing to earn a 5th year at Michigan. Kudos to him and IU's staff for improving a ton in this offseason, but nothing in his first 4 years indicated he would be more than a 5 minutes a game guy this year. Scholarships are not the issue either, as we've established he is from a family of significant financial means. Indiana offered a fresh start and the probability of more playing time than he was going to get here.
And re: Beilein being bitter, absolutely not. His comment is all about mid-majors getting their guys stolen out from under them after working hard to develop them from no-star recruits to NBA prospects. Michigan is not a mid-major.
March 18th, 2016 at 11:46 AM ^
Did you miss the part where Beilein says "we had one transfer in conference"? Is it mostly refering to mid majors yes but he does throw that in there and its not as a compliment.
March 18th, 2016 at 11:40 AM ^
He started games for us and was a big reason we took Wisconsin to the wire twice. There was one reason for cutting ties which would was a dumb reason in that our freshman bigs would grow without Bielfeldt there. They could still grow with him there.
March 18th, 2016 at 12:05 PM ^
We did it to make room for Jaylen Brown on the roster.
This is incorrect. Brown signed his letter of intent with Cal in early May 2015, and Bielfeldt announced his tranfer in early June 2015. There is another possible reason for the transfer that Bielfeldt's statements don't exclude: given that he only had another year of eligibily, he wanted assurances or strong hints about playing time, and given that Beilein had a relative glut of young bigs to try develop, he wasn't prepared to give those assurances. Pefectly understandable mutual decision.
March 18th, 2016 at 11:41 AM ^
March 18th, 2016 at 11:50 AM ^
March 18th, 2016 at 11:55 AM ^
were a big topic at the conference meetings last spring. I don't think this has anything to do with Max since Beilein is basically saying the same things that came out of the earlier meetings. He's a coach, of course he would want to retain the first option on a kid they had invested in and developed rather than see those dividends accrue to another program.
March 18th, 2016 at 12:20 PM ^
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March 18th, 2016 at 12:31 PM ^
All due respect to Coach Beilein but I'm not buying his -- or any other coach -- argument. There are nuances to be sure but the student athlete should certainly be afforded choice within reason.
(edit) I've heard Izzo complain about it as a playing time gripe. i.e. Player complains about PT and transfers. Izzo decries that's what development within the program is all about.
It's a nasty business to be sure and some [coaches] may angle that it gives a kid the de facto ability to alter the course of the program as it relates to recruiting. Ever so slightly but a butterfly flaps its wings etc. For instance: at the end of the year a player says he's transferring for PT which puts the coach in a bind to fill that position via recruitment since his long-term plan was to have Player in that spot for four years. And the dominos fall and around and around we go.
If you push a kid out to make room for an empty scholarship you don't get to complain about it. Grad transfers have been the way of the game for about 10 years now. Beilein knew Max had an extra year of eligibility. Once coach decided he didn't want it then Max gets to shop his extra year around tot he highest bidder. I don't care if he goes somewhere just to play basketball.
From one and dones, to kids pretendng to be students, to coaches making $5 million and players nothing, to kids being punished if coaches leave/are fired, or prior classes commit violations... this is a relatively small issue imho.
If these are the rules, then learn how to benefit from them. Harbaugh!
to coaches making $5 million and players nothing
And how many coaches are not former players?
I never understand this. Is it really that different than any other industry where entry-level people get paid far less than their superiors? Sure, Google couldn't operate without all their QA coders and whatnot, but that doesn't mean the QA coders get more than the software architects or the senior managers. Yes, it's not the best comparison, but I think there is something to be said for it. Players, in addition to being trained to be basketball players, are also getting trained to be basketball coaches, if they decide to pursue that career.
And, on top of that training, the players are getting about up to $100k a year in compensation.
There's a lot of great stuff about Beilein. Can't disagree with him more here. Any policy that that makes students more indentured to schools rather than getting to make the best decisions for themselves based on whatever factors they care to consider is worsening an aready unfair balance.
Bielfeldt ended up being our top C last year?
Maybe he wouldn't have been as effective as he was at Indiana, but our C position has been a major weakness, so it's logical to think Bielfeldt would have helped.
Personally, I don't agree with JB. I think it's fantastic to encourage and reward (within the rules) kids who actually do the student athlete thing and get a degree. When that happens, the system has worked!
Let the kid have options at that point; they've earned it.
That said, I think Beilein is troubled by this from the perspective of being a long-time coach at a lower level. While JB mentioned his player (Max) transferring in-conference, IMO he's more concerned for mid-major (or even lower level) coaches who can only compete by developing players over time.
Final thought: It seems obvious to me that transferring really worked out well for Max. He's clearly a better player in Indiana's system. The Horford transfer hurt us much more. Horford would have been a key contributor for us, while Max probably wouldn't have blossomed here like he did at Indy. Of course, that's just speculation on my part.
IMO there's a big difference between keeping someone eligible and bestowing a degree.
I think there are many cases where kids are kept barely eligible through cupcake classes, tutors and (in some cases) shenanigans.
I find it hard to believe that Michigan (or most other schools, for that matter) would give a diploma to a student that didn't earn it.
Athletes at Michigan get a TON of academic assistance that isn't available to most other students, and many of them take spring and summer classes. Not many of them are in engineering or Ross, but so what? I'm perfectly fine with the help they receive, especially if it helps them earn a degree.
I'm for any rule, process or assistance that encourages kids to be actual student-athletes.
given that he didn't invite Beilfeldt back. I think his argument there might be that he was allowed to stay in the conference.
The Horford situation probably has more to do with him being disgruntled about this.
Otherwise, he makes some good points. Free agency isn't good for NCAA sports. The appeal for fans and alumni is largely coming from the life-long ties that come with your University. That said, I fully believe student-athletes should be allowed to transfer for grad school (especially in a case like Jake Raulerson), but you probably shouldn't be allowed to compete in your college sport that 5th year. The school should cover your scholarship financially though, if you took that red-shirt year.
but I just don't agree with you on this. For the life of me, I just can't see anything bad about a kid with a degree being allowed to explore his options, whatever his motivation.
If it's to further his education, great. Absolutely no reason he can't use up his playing eligibility while furthering his studies.
If it's to find a situation that maximizes his opportunity to get drafted or pursue a professional athletic career overseas, that's great too.
If it's simply a chance to get a ring or play in the tournament, I'm ok with that too. Let the kid experience the bright lights.
No matter the motivation, IMO the kid earned this opportunity by being a real student athlete. Congratulations, and well done!
What grinds my gears is the one-and-done. Many of those guys simply don't care about school, and some apparently don't even attend class. That's ridiculous, IMO.
I think Beilein has a point when he asks how many of these kids are actually using it to get a grad degree. Do you think Blake Countess went all out academically at Auburn? I seriously doubt it.
Nothing wrong with a legitimate transfer for education reasons, but there's a lot of kids - especially in football who are using it for one-semester free agency before entering the NFL. Not the worst thing in the world, but it does suck for mid-majors (and others) who developed a kid. I'm thinking of the QBs transferring to Oregon as an example.
Horford's another one. Michigan took a chance on him, patiently developed him, and then had to lose him for nothing (and without warning). Great for Horford, and it's reasonable to argue he put in his 4 years, but it's bad for Michigan and fans of NCAA sports, IMO.
I think most of us agree that red-shirting is a really good idea for some kids, and the grad transfer thing really kills the incentive to do so. If nothing else, they should have to declare their intent to transfer the previous semester (i.e., at winter break).
The frequency of grad transfer is going to explode over the next few years once coaches and players become more comfortable with it. When it does, the NCAA will inevitably curtail it. I just hope that when they do, they leave some room for legitimate moves (like Raulerson's) to happen.
I don't want to curtail the freedom of kids who have legitimate academic interests, but I think the rules should be structured to inhibit the equivalent of free agency in college athletics.
I believe there should be a 4-year commitment that goes both ways. Transfrs shouldn't be prohibited for players, but there should be a consequence to breaking your commitment (like sitting out a year). An exception would be for when coaches leave, but that's another topic...
You make reasoned points; I just don't agree.
IMO, there's a balance that should be sought between serving the needs/interests of the student, the school, and even fans/alumni/supporters.
I feel kids with a diploma have paid their dues and earned the right to their free agency. Their obligation? Stay in school, stay out of trouble, get a degree.
You're right, Blake probably went to Auburn to improve his chances of being drafted, and you know what? It worked. He had a great season. He wasn't a great press/man corner, and couldn't really maximize his talents here, with our system. Sure, it hurt our depth, but he gained way more than we lost.
As far as fans are concerned, I think the transfers of Russell Wilson, Vernon Adams, and Jake Rudock have been great.
I guess our main point of disagreement is whether the student's obligation should be 4 years (in your case, maybe 4 years post red-shirt?) or "just" a degree. IMO, a student-athlete fulfills his obligation when he earns his degree.
Recruiting has changed on the front end, why not on the back? 247 just added a "decommitments tracker", I'm sure they'll probably add a "grad transfer" tracker as well.
In other news - Sparty trailing at half!
Is how bad losing Wilson and Adams sucked for the schools they transferred from. IMO, the Horford transfer was a season-killer for us last year, and (unlike the McGary thing, where there was some communication and expectation that he might go pro, completely unexpected).
College sports are good because they are different from pro sports. The permanence of the player-school relationships is a big part of what makes college better than pro sports to many people. Free agency is great for players, but bad for fans. Nik Stauskas and GR3 will always be wolverines, even though they were only here 2 years. They've already played for I don't know how many NBA teams and that's pretty lame IMO.
I don't think anybody has an 'obligation' to a school. If you want to leave - go. But if you do so, I don't think you should get unrestricted privleges and freedom. The transfer penalty (sit out a year) seems pretty fair. It lets people leave if they want to, but also ensures they face a consequence on the court (important note: not in the classroom). A similar rule could be applied for grad transfers (since most grad programs take more than one calendar year anyway - especially if you're playing a sport.)
Speaking of grad transfers, is there any word on Spike? I am hoping that even if no scholarship is available, he will "walk on" for a last year at UM. Didn't he say somewhere that talk of him transferring for a fifth year was misplaced?
especially for a 21 year old.
I would like him to stay if there is room. Awesome man to represent Michigan.
I think students should be allowed to take that 5th year and go play for another team. However, in basketball you could play your OLD team 4 times (maybe twice in regular conf. schedule, once in the conf. tourn and possibly once in the NCAA's. So, i think certain players could understand certain knowledge enough to really help their new team beat their old team. So, let them transfer as long as its out of conference. Unless, the old team signs off on the transfer to the same conf. school.