ICE ruling on student visas and impact on Michigan

Submitted by ak47 on July 7th, 2020 at 10:27 AM

I [edited out] wanted to highlight the new ICE ruling that international students on student visas will be required to self deport if they are taking the majority of their classes online. Michigan sports have a number of international players but obviously the guys on football and basketball teams are going to be the most prominent. If I'm Franz I'm probably playing professionally in europe next year or entering the supplemental draft.

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blueheron

July 7th, 2020 at 10:33 AM ^

OK ...

"I know this will get political, and it should because fuck ICE and fuck Trump ..."

Interesting post, but you chose to lead with that?!

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MichCali

July 7th, 2020 at 10:43 AM ^

I'm ok with it.  This is an incredibly stupid and awful rule that fucks over a ton of kids and guts funding to our schools.  In this instance, yes, fuck Trump and ICE.  They screwed up here big time.

8.0.1

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MGOTokyo

July 7th, 2020 at 12:29 PM ^

Foreign students make up a large portion of most universities and colleges (10-20%), many of which are diploma mills that charge large $$$ for substandard educations and give inflated grades to keep the process repeating.  Many of these schools you have never heard of.  They not only gouge the foreigners but also those such as our military on the GI bill, offering worthless degrees paid for by the taxpayers.  On top of this, a large percentage of these students overstay their visas and contribute to the current illegal immigration problem. Not to mention the grad students who steal research data from our top schools or use their acquired knowledge to further military and security technology to use against the U.S. The money collected from the foreign students is used to fund the excessive administrative personnel and teaching salaries that has made the cost of college so expensive.

If they are coming in to learn on campus, so be it.  But if they are doing virtual work, the point of which is to avoid crowding and the spread of COVID, let them remain home.

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MichCali

July 7th, 2020 at 12:59 PM ^

Quite a bit of xenophobia and anti-intellectualism to unpack here.

Not surprising your comment history is filled with insane rants of "liberal indoctrination" and other insane right-wing talking points.

Joined: 04/28/2016

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hailtothevictors08

July 7th, 2020 at 12:59 PM ^

You, you realize the large majority of these students, particularly the ones who attend Michigan, the focus of this blog, are already here in the US?

You also realize that many students do not have the same access to internet and resources in their home countries? 

 

This is a tragedy 

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yoyo

July 7th, 2020 at 1:09 PM ^

Michigan is not a diploma mill. Foreign students are paying a lot of tuition to attend Michigan and get something in return so really this hurts everyone. On top of that, these students go on to become business owners or leaders in their home country who develop a favorable opinion of our country so it makes no sense to do this except for cruelty and winning cheap political points.

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chunkums

July 7th, 2020 at 1:11 PM ^

It' is RICH that you are trying to frame this as some kind of noble swipe at shitty diploma mills, since anyone who can rub two brain cells together has seen this administration aggressively wipe out all efforts to curb their predatory behavior. Since you don't seem to care about the moral problem with kicking out international students who came here legitimately under the impression that they would be able to learn while paying top-dollar to attend our universities, let me put it in terms that might affect you: This will make tuition a lot more expensive for students who are native to the US. 

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WestQuad

July 7th, 2020 at 1:19 PM ^

I have friends from China who work at a higher ranked MAC school who recruit foreign students to study in the US.  Most schools in the US do this in one form or another.  UofM loves out of state student tuition and foreign tuition even more.  All of these schools are going to be hurting without this revenue.  There is a concerted effort to hurt public education on all levels.  

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capnron

July 7th, 2020 at 1:28 PM ^

You might be happier taking this bullshit thinking to reddit. You can find subreddits there where users only get there news and information from Facebook memes too. Eh, what am I talking about. I'm sure you already subscribe. 

Joined: 06/07/2018

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JimHarbaughForPres

July 7th, 2020 at 10:35 AM ^

You’re saying a majority of classes, i.e. they presumably still have at least one in-person class. They can’t participate in that in-person class when they’re not in the country... seems like good enough reason to be able to stay. Maybe UM will make a class like Social Distancing 101 that meets for 15 mins once a week just so people can say they have an in-person class

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MichCali

July 7th, 2020 at 10:38 AM ^

Essentially, this rule incentivizes schools to create sham classes for international kids.  OR the schools that were trying to be safe and have only online classes will now reverse course and have in-person classes so they don't lose more money from these kids, safety be damned.

8.0.1

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ijohnb

July 7th, 2020 at 11:14 AM ^

There has not been an announcement.  But why would they?  Common rationale for ending the semester early is because we would be right in the middle of flu season as well and everything would just be chaos.  What is going to change in January?  Frankly I don't think they will go in the Fall anyway either, at least not substantially.  

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Yo_Blue

July 7th, 2020 at 1:06 PM ^

There has been an announcement.  The goal is to cut down travel back and forth between school and home.  One trip home at Thanksgiving and a return in January followed by a short in-person semester.

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MichCali

July 7th, 2020 at 10:35 AM ^

Link to story since OP didn't provide one and some may not have heard.

What an incredibly stupid decision by the Trump administration.  This absolutely kills the $10 billion+ our schools get from international students across the country every year.  It fucks over so many kids, athletes or not.

One more step to this football and basketball season getting canceled.  So, so dumb.

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Bo Harbaugh

July 7th, 2020 at 11:39 AM ^

Really?  All these students that were paying big $ for the on campus experience as well as international experience to study abroad and travel in the US are going to just stay enrolled and keep paying for e-learning? What % do you actually believe stay enrolled?  Would you?

I would transfer, if possible, or take the year off and assess my opportunities.  I would also avoid coming back to the US, which is essentially saying, "we don't want you here", without any logical or rational reason to back up why these students pose a greater health risk to society.  The president won't wear a mask, thinks we are doing just dandy handling the crisis, but we need to send the international students home?

The good news for most of these international students - There is a decent probability that wherever they are headed back to has a better handle on the virus situation than the US right now.

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AlaskanYeti

July 7th, 2020 at 11:49 AM ^

If students choose to enroll in web based courses, they will still have tuition to pay. Sure, the schools could choose to waive tuition, but will they? Doubtful. Also, if I were in the situation, I would probably stay enrolled with the hopes of being able to return to in-person classes next year so I can get that on-campus experience and eventually try to get a work visa after graduation. 

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MichCali

July 7th, 2020 at 1:07 PM ^

If students are forced to take online-only classes and then deported because of it, I would guess a vast majority would either take a gap year or quit our schools and enroll in their own.  Schools would lose a ton of students and money.

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MGoneBlue

July 7th, 2020 at 12:37 PM ^

Would a foreign student wake up at two in the morning to take classes, or just transfer to an elite school in their own country that's handling COVID a thousand times better to boot?

Thanks to this rule, there will be a mass exodus of qualified students for absolutely no reason.

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oriental andrew

July 7th, 2020 at 1:11 PM ^

This is a key consideration. If you have to go back to APAC, ANZ, even middle east, the time zones are not kind. As an example, a 10am US ET class starts at 4pm in Europe, 7:30pm in India, and 10pm in China. A 2 pm US ET class starts at 8pm in Europe, 11:30pm in India, and 2am in China.

How many rich kids in China are going to want to be in class anywhere from 8pm to 5am? 

(all times give or take an hour, depending on daylight savings time)

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MichCali

July 7th, 2020 at 1:10 PM ^

"American schools for American kids only!"

Man, the weird xenophobia in this thread is disappointing.

To your point, if we eliminate 20% of our student body, then we will struggle mightily.  It's already been decided that tuition is going UP this year.  American kids aren't going to want to pay that money for online classes either.

8.0.1

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MileHighWolverine

July 7th, 2020 at 1:34 PM ^

I'd be great with capping foreign students at 5%...

If we eliminate foreign students, maybe "we" would stop building astronomically expensive new facilities that bring $0.00 value to the education "we" receive.

Tuition when I was there (out of state) cost me $100k. Tuition for my nephew, currently there, $270k. Number of students and faculty are the same as when I graduated 20 years ago.....you think the education he's getting is ~3x better than what I got?

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MichCali

July 7th, 2020 at 1:58 PM ^

Xenophobically keeping foreigners out of our schools is NOT the answer to our schools building too many buildings.  This is one of the dumber things I've heard in a while.

This is possibly-racist concern-trolling hidden in a "maybe this will fix everything" faulty logic.  This is really, really dumb, dude.  There is no reason to eliminate foreigners from our universities other than xenophobia.  It solves no problems.  A large reason, and benefit, that American kids go to school is to get exposure to other cultures and make international friends.

8.0.1

Joined: 04/28/2016

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yoyo

July 7th, 2020 at 1:16 PM ^

Foreign students pay higher tuition making it possible to keep in-state tuition at current levels. Adding more in-state students will not make tuition cheaper. They also spend a great deal of money on living expense and eventually return back to their countries to become business owners or leaders who develop a more favorable opinion of our country. 

 

"The continued growth in international students coming to the U.S. for higher education had a significant positive economic impact on the United States. International students contributed $45 billion to the U.S. economy in 2018, according to the U.S. Department of Commerce."

 

https://www.iie.org/Research-and-Insights/Open-Doors/Data/Economic-Impact-of-International-Students

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MileHighWolverine

July 7th, 2020 at 1:31 PM ^

Foreign students pay higher tuition than in-state students but not out of state students. So every out of state student's tuition (like I was) is pegged at whatever the foreign student pays.....and the foreign student takes 10-20% of the available spots. Fantastic!

Meanwhile, our taxes directly and indirectly pay for the college system that foreign students don't need to worry about paying. Their payments into the system start when they are students and will stop if they leave. Sounds like an awesome deal to me. 

Drop demand by 20% and watch tuition drop like a stone. What's driving our costs is not student related but capital expenditures - i.e., fancy new buildings.

We could make do without them....apparently, the Ivy League feels the same way as all classes will be online next year. Who needs new facilities when people will pay $50k for the prestige of your name anyway!!

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Gameboy

July 7th, 2020 at 2:10 PM ^

Do you seriously think that a "demand" at selective colleges like Michigan will drop because of foreign students are barred? There are hundreds of students who would be willing and able to replace any single seat eliminated for the foreign student. 

What fantasy do you live in where barring foreign students will lower tuition at places like Michigan?

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Mr Miggle

July 7th, 2020 at 10:37 AM ^

Not to get political, but deporting prominent college athletes will create a lot of political backlash that would probably lead to this decision's reversal.

Foreign athletes represent schools all over the country. Offhand, I think Michigan football has three foreign DL on scholarship.

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MichCali

July 7th, 2020 at 10:40 AM ^

Link to list of all international D1 football players

For the B1G:

  • Sydney Brown, S, Illinois (Canada)
  • Blake Hayes, P, Illinois (Australia)
  • Sio Nofoagatoto’a, DL, Indiana (American Samoa)
  • Haydon Whitehead, P, Indiana (Australia)
  • Michael Sleep-Dalton, P, Iowa (Australia)
  • David Ojabo, DL, Michigan (Scotland)
  • Luiji Vilain, DL, Michigan (Canada)
  • Julius Welschof, DL, Michigan (Germany)
  • Jack Bouwmeester, P, Michigan State (Australia)
  • Daniel Faalele, OL, Minnesota (Australia)
  • Joseph Darkwa, DT, Penn State (Germany)
  • Jonathan Sutherland, S, Penn State (Canada)
  • Anton Oskarrson, OL, Rutgers (Sweden)
  • Adam Korsak, P, Rutgers (Australia)
  • Sam Vretman, OL, Rutgers (Sweden)
8.0.1

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Watching From Afar

July 7th, 2020 at 10:47 AM ^

Of course OSU doesn't have any.

I'm not saying it's true, but a lot of people are saying that Justin Fields was born in Kenya. Maybe he was, maybe he wasn't. Why won't he show us his long form birth certificate?!

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uminks

July 7th, 2020 at 2:23 PM ^

Wow, we cannot lose that many DL. My advice to everyone on this list is to just ignore ICE. The Mexican and Central American illegal aliens don't get round up much. Odds of getting caught are very low.

Joined: 11/10/2009

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1VaBlue1

July 7th, 2020 at 11:54 AM ^

"...political backlash that would probably lead to this decision's reversal."

LOL!!!  This is the same guy that just said NASCAR needs to celebrate the Confederate Flag and that a black driver needs to apologize for finding a noose in his assigned garage at a track in Alabama.  Yet you think he's going to reverse a decision because of a little bad press?  Haa!!!

This xenophobic administration takes its queues from Steven Miller - a long time, self-avowed, believer in white supremacy.  I'll be floored if it even thinks about reversing, let alone actually does it!

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El Jeffe

July 7th, 2020 at 10:42 AM ^

The rules seem difficult to parse, but essentially it seems like the loophole is #3--if a student takes courses in a school with a hybrid model (which I think is probably most schools--even Harvard will be in person for freshmen), the international students would only not be allowed to take all classes online. As noted by MichCali above, this may result in some sham-ish courses in person.

  1. Nonimmigrant F-1 and M-1 students attending schools operating entirely online may not take a full online course load and remain in the United States. The U.S. Department of State will not issue visas to students enrolled in schools and/or programs that are fully online for the fall semester nor will U.S. Customs and Border Protection permit these students to enter the United States. Active students currently in the United States enrolled in such programs must depart the country or take other measures, such as transferring to a school with in-person instruction to remain in lawful status. If not, they may face immigration consequences including, but not limited to, the initiation of removal proceedings.
  2. Nonimmigrant F-1 students attending schools operating under normal in-person classes are bound by existing federal regulations. Eligible F students may take a maximum of one class or three credit hours online.
  3. Nonimmigrant F-1 students attending schools adopting a hybrid model—that is, a mixture of online and in person classes—will be allowed to take more than one class or three credit hours online. These schools must certify to SEVP, through the Form I-20, “Certificate of Eligibility for Nonimmigrant Student Status,” certifying that the program is not entirely online, that the student is not taking an entirely online course load this semester, and that the student is taking the minimum number of online classes required to make normal progress in their degree program. The above exemptions do not apply to F-1 students in English language training programs or M-1 students pursing vocational degrees, who are not permitted to enroll in any online courses.

 

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