Harbaugh: Players Should Get Revenue Share From New TV Deal
As the title states. Harbaugh has routinely spoken out in favor of players rights (especially if they're in utero!).
How feasible do folks feel it would be for players to draw a share of TV revenue, considering they are literally the most important stakeholders as well as the product itself? Would love to hear insights from folks that are more informed about these kinds of processes. Would it require collective bargaining?
September 5th, 2022 at 7:46 PM ^
My personal take based on gut feel and nothing else: a percentage of it should be doled out equally to players upon graduation. Different than NIL, everyone gets the same amount. Seems like a good thing to have to start your adult life, especially if you're not going pro. A nest egg, as it were.
September 5th, 2022 at 8:08 PM ^
Why graduation? Players who don't graduate don't deserve any? A player who graduates and plays 0 downs gets some but a player contributed on the field gets 0?
September 5th, 2022 at 8:24 PM ^
TV deals, including BTN, cover other sports. So, all players in all sports deserve something. Second, there four broad reasons why a player may not graduate:
1. Leaves early for a pro career. Should not get anything.
2. Leaves for another school: Should not get anything.
3. Does not graduate for reasons beyond her/his control (health, needs to get a job, etc): Should get a share.
4. Does not want to play school: Should not get anything
September 5th, 2022 at 8:26 PM ^
I’d be in favor of a tiered dole out that is commiserate with how many years they spent at school. Incentives getting a degree but doesn’t short change someone based on things outside of their control (injuries, coaching changes, etc…
September 5th, 2022 at 9:45 PM ^
TV deals, including BTN, cover other sports. So, all players in all sports deserve something.
I am pretty sure that you can calculate out, via TV deals and viewership, who is watching what. And I am 99.9% sure that viewership is most for football, some for basketball, a wee bit for hockey, and much less for everything else. So I think money given out should account for this.
September 5th, 2022 at 10:22 PM ^
Congrats on violating Title IX! It would have to be doled out equally by sex.
September 5th, 2022 at 11:34 PM ^
People forget this. That's why the women's cross country coach makes exactly as much as Jim Harbaugh.
September 6th, 2022 at 3:10 AM ^
People forget Harbaugh is a current student.
September 5th, 2022 at 10:17 PM ^
I meant at the end of their tenure at Michigan. Not incumbent upon graduation. I have kids this age and it would be so helpful to leave school with some money in their pocket to start out.
September 6th, 2022 at 9:07 AM ^
Hi Wendy,
I totally understand your position on kids doing better with more cash coming out of school. However, many kids need the money before then for all kinds of reasons. I can’t agree with delaying getting it to them anymore than it gets delayed in being paid to anyone else, including coaches, admins, conference heads etc.
September 6th, 2022 at 10:07 AM ^
If they leave early for the NFL they don't need the money (and they probably already made their own NIL money on the side -- this is referring to pooling the TV deal). A guy who graduates, regardless of his contribution, was still part of the whole process and deserves his cut. Not to mention this would re-invigorate the "college" aspect of collect football and even incentivize staying in school. If a guy has a career-ending injury, they could set it up so he still gets the money either immediately, or upon earning a bachelor's, whenever that may be.
September 5th, 2022 at 8:34 PM ^
Nice idea.
As others have commented, requiring graduation may need adjustment but the basic idea is sound.
September 5th, 2022 at 8:46 PM ^
Not sure where exactly the laws are as of today, but people need to get this through their heads: college football is a professional sport with adult employees.
Any arrangement among multiple schools/employers to collectively reduce employee compensation is unethical and monopolistic. Any individual school/employer mechanism - regardless of possibly honorable intentions - that withholds immediate fair compensation for an employee’s work or past work is unethical.
Schools don’t conspire among each other to suppress professor pay, and they don’t withhold pay from student workers if they don’t graduate. Same should be the case for the players.
September 5th, 2022 at 9:42 PM ^
Joe,
I think I get the point you're making but I don't understand your emphasis, apparently founded on the law, on reducing employee compensation when college athletes are not yet legally considered athletes nor yet getting compensated.
I'm all for compensation, and I don't think I'm disagreeing with you. Mostly I'm not understanding your emphasis.
September 6th, 2022 at 5:12 AM ^
So I’m actually acknowledging I don’t really know much about the current law. My point about the professionalism of the sport comes from the fact that every aspect of it - coaching contracts, staff contract, production, advertisements, tv deals, endorsements, ticket prices, revenue maximizing expansion - aligns with professional sports.
The laws seem to be catching up, but basically, regardless of current law, it patently is professional, and therefore treating players in any other way other than as professionals is unethical.
September 6th, 2022 at 3:03 AM ^
Schools don’t conspire among each other to suppress professor pay, and they don’t withhold pay from student workers if they don’t graduate.
Give the low level of academic pay relative to qualifications, it is exploitative at best. Schools have conspired to suppress scholarships given to students.
September 6th, 2022 at 5:16 AM ^
People can certainly end up underpaid and exploited. I think that’s still preferred to UNpaid and exploited.
A student is receiving a service from a school. They pay the school to receive that service. There is no obligation of the school to offer any scholarships of any size to any students. We’re talking about people who work for the school.
September 6th, 2022 at 3:52 AM ^
Not sure about the professor pay claim (what is systematically overproducing PhDs while moving away from tenure-stream employment in favor of hiring adjuncts?), but otherwise this comment is sound.
September 6th, 2022 at 4:18 AM ^
Any arrangement between schools, barring a players' union, would likely be considered anti-competitive and subject to antitrust considerations. The Supreme Court case changed the landscape in a big way.
A university might have its own restrictions that were more stringent than other schools but then good luck with recruiting.
The college football world has shifted and the road map of its future is more than a bit uncertain at the moment.
September 5th, 2022 at 7:53 PM ^
Without a doubt the players should share in the revenue generated from the product they produce.
That said, I don't envy the AD's trying to figure out how to navigate this and make sure the non-revenue sports are funded fully and competitively. The determination of a fair distribution is going to be a tricky one.
It would also be nice if somewhere in these billions, EVERY varsity athlete regardless of sport at least gets their schooling, medical, etc. paid for as a baseline.
September 5th, 2022 at 8:51 PM ^
The scholarship money isn't revenue sharing?
I love people who throw around the word Billions like its not being split amongst 14 or 16 schools. Do the math. Some Ath Departments are still losing money.
September 6th, 2022 at 1:51 AM ^
You do realize that many varsity athletes are not on scholarship or only get a fractional share of a scholarship, right?
The word "billions" is used because the value of the new contract is actually billions. That's not hyperbole.
"Doing the math" suggests that we live in a world where we now have football coaches being paid $100M guaranteed contracts. So, it's reasonable to debate what an equitable distribution of wages (that includes the athletes) should look like in that context.
Guess what... if conferences do set a universal policy of allocating a percentage of the TV revenue to athletes, then the AD's will adjust and live within those new constraints. Maybe they have to pay an administrator a bit less, maybe the overall coaching budgets shrink 10-20%. Maybe we have fewer varsity sports. It's not a blank check. Some of those are going to be tough choices.
Given the money involved and what is required of DI athletes, however, it's difficult to see how there should not at least be the equivalent of a "minimum wage" across all varsity sports, which starts with full scholarships for all varsity athletes and some nominal compensation.
September 6th, 2022 at 10:50 AM ^
If a Big Ten athletic department is losing money, it’s intentional.
Colleges are nonprofits, and they have to remain nonprofits or their donor revenue will disappear.
You don’t think Michigan built brand new lacrosse facilities because the regents care about lacrosse, do you? Major athletic departments are desperate to spend money as quickly as it comes in so that they can avoid doing anything to jeopardize their nonprofit status. (To be clear — nonprofits are allowed to take in more revenue than they earn, but there are restrictions on what they can spend the excess on. Anything that can plausibly be termed overhead escapes these restrictions).
The “we’re losing money” thing is nothing but marketing — it serves to increase donations.
September 5th, 2022 at 8:57 PM ^
Malzinator -- Pretty much this exactly. ADs (or whoever) would have to figure out equitable distribution, Title IX issues, and probably even taxation issues. Tough -- probably very tough -- but doable for sure. It would take a while to iron out the details, but it's workable. Question is, do they want to? They should want to, but do they?
September 5th, 2022 at 7:59 PM ^
Share with players? Come on now. 7 billion can only go so far…
Hopefully the sarcasm is clear here?
September 5th, 2022 at 8:37 PM ^
I'm mixed. On one hand, I like to see jokes stand on their own, without a follow-up "Just joking" or an explanation. I hate to see jokes explained.
On the other hand, the interwebs. (That's a joke, suggesting that jokes need to be explained because otherwise some people will not get a joke and will leave negative comments.)
September 5th, 2022 at 8:17 PM ^
Kevin Warren hinted at something like this. Make the move now bc once universities get comfortable with this cash it’ll be harder to get them to dole it out…. Give it out equally to every athlete with different proportions for different sports.
September 5th, 2022 at 8:21 PM ^
If players feel they should be paid for playing then this is the avenue they need to go down instead of the Patreon model NIL collectives that are going around. The alumni and fans have already funded the program through ticket sales, merchandise, cable packages, donations, etc.
September 5th, 2022 at 8:24 PM ^
I'd like to see it set up as a partial pay, receive a % while they are in school and some sort of bond for when they graduate or are off to the league.
Not trying to tell folks what to do with their money, but given some of the shitty choices I made in college, not sure making a few million from age 18-22 would have been in my best interest, unless there was a few more million waiting to be paid out as some sort of annuity into the future.
I think some money management classes (actually we should all be required to take these in college imo) should be mandatory as well, such that players can start to set up properly for the future. I know many big time college football schools that send a bunch of players to the NFL are already requiring such courses.
TLDR...."Pay the man his money"....but also prep them with the necessary info to get the most out of it.
September 5th, 2022 at 8:35 PM ^
Seeing how it gives us a competitive advantage over other conferences, yes please. Sooner the better.
September 5th, 2022 at 8:35 PM ^
This would be super complicated. What do you do with non conference games? How do you split that money with other sports, as they all play a part of the TV deal, at least the portion that includes BTN. How do you value the player as compared to the school? I watch Michigan regardless of the player, I have seen all their games even when they were terrible and I am certainly not alone. So how do you value the player compared to the school?
This is obviously all things that could be worked out, but it is super complicated, especially when compared to pro sports.
September 5th, 2022 at 8:42 PM ^
It's only complicated if you make it so. Take an arbitrary % (say 10%) of revenue and split it evenly between every varsity athlete.
September 6th, 2022 at 3:54 AM ^
What do non-conference games have to do with the playoff TV contract?
So many comments in this thread are about something other than what Harbaugh said (at least, according to the headline included in the OP).
September 5th, 2022 at 9:13 PM ^
It would be nice to somehow be able to do that, but there are a ton of challenges.
The biggest one I see is Title IX
NIL gets around this due to its focus on an individual player and funds, ostensibly, outside the AD. Once that is coming from the University, that pie has to be sliced up a whole lot more.
it would also then bring in other questions, like are these guys now really just employees of the University.
I think that there is a solution somewhere, and I have always been in favor of players and NIL, but it needs to be a level, structured solution across all conferences imo, otherwise, its just more of the wild west happening currently.
September 6th, 2022 at 2:02 AM ^
Being employees really shouldn't be that difficult. We have students doing work study jobs, etc. A varsity athlete has clear time commitments to the University and could be compensated for that, just like the student working in the library.
September 5th, 2022 at 9:40 PM ^
The biggest problem I have with the OP making this thread is it's taking up valuable threadspace where we could be having a novel conversation, like whether Cade or JJ should be starting QB.
*sighs*
September 5th, 2022 at 10:22 PM ^
Everybody starts with the same base according to a sport's revenues. At the end of the season, you dole out playtime bonuses. Where there's a will, there's a way.
September 5th, 2022 at 11:59 PM ^
Wouldn't that be an issue because football and men's basketball would be insanely high compared to the rest since all the other sports have non-existent revenues/deficits? Unless you mean everyone just gets the same exact base, like 1% each or something.
September 5th, 2022 at 10:28 PM ^
How about giving them money for a few more years of school once their playing eligibility is over. It gives them a chance to earn a degree that they can actually use.
September 5th, 2022 at 11:19 PM ^
I think at a minimum you use some of that lucre to make sure that players' post-school heath care needs are addressed. NFL has a program (not without its faults, btw) that provides this type of thing. A kid who gives up health to help make this product as lucrative as it is ought to be taken care of. Be nice to see some support to help them make sure they graduate as well, along the lines of academic support, funding for internships, etc. The kind of stuff the more well-heeled schools can afford to do. For the 99% of them who don't ever go pro, support to make sure they get as much out of college as possible.
September 5th, 2022 at 11:36 PM ^
What can the NCAA do if the BigTen said x% will be paid to players based on minutes played? Nobody is using their NIL more then the schools/tv. Here is the number and its paid by hoe much airtime you filled with your on field play. Nobody can complain in other sports or anything else. Seriously what can the NCAA do if it is a conference policy?
September 6th, 2022 at 2:56 AM ^
I think the schools are going to be a lot more worried about violating federal law with whatever pay scheme people come up with than they are about the NCAA.
September 6th, 2022 at 1:30 AM ^
He’ll probably say anything to divert people’s attention from the QB “situation” (what do you mean “situation” dad?!)
September 6th, 2022 at 8:07 AM ^
Sotomayor's and Thomas's questions along with Kavanaugh's concurring opinion not only left the door open, it almost encouraged future cases. It's a matter of when, not if.
I did my thesis on this back in 2017. Well, something similar. It was to determine the value of college football players. I modeled it after the NFL salary cap calculations, which are surprisingly opaque. The salary cap would be the biggest thing, in my opinion. School's like Michigan, Bama, ND, etc. rosters are like the equivalent of over 1000 times the salary cap.
For those wondering how I ran my simulation:
-Estimated the NFL salary cap for the next year.
-Determined the B1G equivalent based on the TV deal.
- Ranked players by position based on their 247 composite
- Attached a value to college players based on their position ranking relative to their NFL counterparts and adjusted those numbers according the the salary cap.
- Walk-ons earned the equivalent to the league minimum and pretty much had one year deals for the sake of the simulation. The Glasgow brothers were the best example.
September 6th, 2022 at 9:05 AM ^
Please post your thesis as a diary. Would be fascinating to read.
September 6th, 2022 at 8:55 AM ^
I don’t disagree with it in principle, but there’s definitely a few things they’d need to work out. Including but certainly not limited to:
1) Who decides how the share is split up? Does the starting QB get the same share as the backup long snapper?
2) Is this paid out immediately, year by year, upon graduation, etc.? I’d like to see some kind of vesting option where players who choose to stay for four years and graduate get a higher pay-out, to try and encourage graduation. Obviously for your superstar players whatever pay out they get from this kind of deal wouldn’t be enough to offset what they’d make in the league, so I’m not sure you can incentivize them much to stay and receive their full vesting. But kids who are on the fence? May be a good incentive for them to consider coming back and finishing their degree.
September 6th, 2022 at 10:04 AM ^
Honestly, and this may be silly for a man in his 30s but it's real -- I'm very concerned Michigan will opt out of the new college football game. Videogames are my escape and I've longed for this game for a decade now; if M isn't it that would be a tremendous bummer to me. Here's hoping they realize the recruiting power of being able to tell a 17 year old kid he'll be in a videogame.
September 6th, 2022 at 10:55 AM ^
Maybe set up some kind of insurance program for them . Its rough on a body and some players do suffer lifelong ailments because of playing the game .
Other than that no. They already get a scholarship and can make tons of money with NIL deals .