Georgia State QB to Miss Season With Covid Related Heart Issue
August 20th, 2020 at 3:57 PM ^
Attn Pony Conquerer:
I've got a message for you in the last page of the Mod Sticky thread.
https://mgoblog.com/mgoboard/moderator-action-sticky-2019-c1#comment-243898224
August 20th, 2020 at 12:34 PM ^
Flu. They said it was just like the flu.
Now I am sure people do get complications from seasonal flu, but 170,000 and counting isn't like the seasonal flu.
August 20th, 2020 at 1:32 PM ^
Actually, the presence of this type of heart condition actually undercuts your point. From the CDC website:
"Studies have shown that flu illness is associated with an increase of heart attacks and stroke. A 2018 study found that the risk of heart attack was 6 times higher within a week of confirmed flu infection. These findings were most pronounced for older adults and those experiencing their first heart attack."
Likewise, from WebMD (which is actually a decent source of online medical info, but there are countless other sources for this statement):
"Viral infections like the flu also put added stress on your body, which can affect your blood pressure, heart rate, and overall heart function. That can raise your odds of having a heart attack or stroke."
So, actually, the presence of heart issues, as well as reports from a few months ago about stroke risk, are entirely consistent with the flu. These are also consistent with other viral infections, such as coxsackie. Also, the potential risk of heard disease is also extant from such common infections as strep throat. From Johns Hopkins:
"Rheumatic heart disease is a condition in which the heart valves have been permanently damaged by rheumatic fever. The heart valve damage may start shortly after untreated or under-treated streptococcal infection such as strep throat or scarlet fever."
We've lived with these conditions for decades, and nobody ever even considered shutting down schools and businesses or cancelling sports. I am not remotely saying that COVID is identical to the flu or any other illnesses. But, all of the reasons that people cite for COVID being different and worse are actually reasons that COVID is no different than existing conditions. Fortunately, for all of these other conditions, the media does not choose to sensationalize every negative outcome, report live case counts, tally the dead, etc. If they did, we would live in permanent lockdown.
August 20th, 2020 at 1:40 PM ^
“But, all of the reasons that people cite for COVID being different and worse are actually reasons that COVID is no different than existing conditions. “
agree , time to get back to normal, don’t mind the pile of dead bodies
August 20th, 2020 at 2:32 PM ^
I don't think he intended to minimize Covid-19, but what he wrote is absolutely true: many viral illnesses can have these same complications; it's not at all unusual. Doctors have learned to treat these side effects, and they eventually will with Covid, too. It's going to take time, but already, the case fatality rate of this virus has fallen over the past few months as treatment as improved. As of today, it stands at just over 3% nationally. Back in March and April, it was in the 8% range.
August 20th, 2020 at 2:52 PM ^
Malarkey, can you please point me to where I said we should get back to normal? All I said is that the condition that COVID has now been linked to is the same condition that many viral and bacterial infections have been linked to. My sole point is that in causing this condition, COVID is actually acting much like flu and other diseases that we live with all the time. Do you disagree with the content of my post, or do you simply just not like people pointing out something that might actually not incite panic in people?
August 20th, 2020 at 2:59 PM ^
Thank you for being a voice of logic and reason michgoblue. You will be viewed as a terrible, inconsiderate, selfish moron by the majority on this board but it's good to know other logical people do exist.
August 20th, 2020 at 4:18 PM ^
Stop spouting misinformation
most preliminary data points to cardiac complications with Covid at alarmingly high rates compared to baseline flu and other viruses it’s not conclusive data yet, but it’s certainly alarming
Let’s not go back to the: “this is just the flu” rhetoric. Have we really gone full circle?
August 20th, 2020 at 5:38 PM ^
Michgoblue, Yours is the same red herring corrupted flu logic many made before:
Sure ”covid causes death but so does the flu” so its not a big deal.
The flaws in that argument have been fully prosecuted and those flaws apply equally to Myocarditis. And that is ignoring the many other complications with COVID that are not similar to other viruses.
Anyone making these flawed arguments requires that they ignore comparative transmission rates and incidence rates as well as other data that might undermine their bias. And the omission is therefore deliberately misleading.
In addition to those issues there is one overwhelmingly material difference between COVID and the flu. I can get a flu vaccine if I feel I need to lower my risk.
August 21st, 2020 at 1:00 AM ^
I averaged out the deaths by age group from the last two seasonal flu's and compared it to Covid19 related deaths in our country. I used numbers directly from the CDC.
Interesting facts:
As of today kids 0-4 are 13x more likely to die from the seasonal flu.
Kids 5-18 are 5x more likely to die from the flu.
The CDC really spreads out the ages from here so I couldn't get an exact number for college aged kids only. But, it isn't until your late 30s to early 40s that you start becoming more likely to die from a covid19 related death than seasonal flu.
Per the numbers today, every single college football player in America has much greater odds dying from the seasonal flu than Covid19.
As of yesterday the CDC listed 320 of all US Covid19 related deaths aged 0-24 and most covid19 deaths have comorbidities, aka not 320 perfectly healthy youths suddenly struck dead.
99.8% of all Covid19 related US deaths are 25 years or older. 58% are 75 and older.
The flu numbers I used are final and the covid numbers are not but I believe there is enough data present these percentages will remain highly accurate.
#Facts>Fear
August 20th, 2020 at 1:48 PM ^
Just because the Flu is also bad doesn't make Covid not bad. Do you know what the main difference between the Flu and Covid is? We have a vaccine for one and not for the other. If we had no way of controlling the flu every year we would have a similar pandemic on our hands.
FLU (Covid) = BAD
FLU (Covid) + VACCINE = Manageable
Make sense??
August 20th, 2020 at 2:00 PM ^
To support your point, the 1919 flu came long before the first flu vaccine and (estimating conservatively) killed 0.5% of the US population. That would be roughly 1.6 million people today.
In other words, a bad flu without a vaccine can be pretty fucking bad.
August 20th, 2020 at 2:11 PM ^
Rona says, "challenge accepted."
August 20th, 2020 at 2:51 PM ^
You do realize that the flu vaccine is only 40% - 60% effective in the years they actually pick the right strands? Most years it's less effective because they miss on their guess.
Also, from the CDC: In some seasons, protection against influenza A(H3N2) virus illness may have been lower for people vaccinated in the current season and the prior season compared to those who had only been vaccinated in the current season. https://www.cdc.gov/flu/vaccines-work/vaccineeffect.htm
In other words... the more you get the vaccine, the less it may work
There are a ton of ways COVID is similar to the flu. It primarily impacts old people who have other conditions. They both sometimes cause longer term effects on your heart, etc.
The main difference being COVID is novel and therefore more easily contracted, which makes it deadly to the specific population of people the worst hit states failed to protect... old people in nursing homes.
August 20th, 2020 at 2:56 PM ^
Wait, are you saying that NY Gov. Cuomo sending people with ACTIVE COVID into nursing homes may have actually not been a good idea?
August 20th, 2020 at 7:27 PM ^
But it's also affecting younger people in ways the flu doesn't, and doctors don't fully understand why. While that's not a large percentage of the population, if you're one of those young people, or the parents of one of those young people, you're going to want to avoid getting Covid because there's no guarantee that you won't be one of those who gets myocarditis. We know more about the flu because we've been dealing with it for a lot longer. We'll know more about Covid in several years after we've seen its trajectory and hopefully come up with a vaccine. Right now, with so many unknowns, it seems incredibly prudent to do whatever we can to avoid getting it.
August 20th, 2020 at 2:00 PM ^
You're comparing apples to oranges. Just because the flu can elevate risk for other heart issues, doesn't mean it's the same as Covid-19 causing this particular really rare heart issue. That's like saying because the Flu and Malaria both cause a fever they're the same.
August 20th, 2020 at 2:49 PM ^
That;s a good point. Can you point me to any articles or research indicating that COVID produces higher risk than flu? Seriously. I have actually been looking for this, but cannot find anything going in either direction. Many assume that COVID is much riskier here, but without data.
August 20th, 2020 at 4:17 PM ^
A well-stated and well-reasoned post and as a result, Michgoblue, you get an upvote from me despite the fact you feel blaming the media near the end of your post to be necessary.
(edit for clarity) While I don't necessarily agree with your overall premise (which seems to downplay the relative risk associated with Covid19), you backed up your argument very well. But the fact remains that Covid19, as a novel virus, must be studied and treated with a higher level of caution when compared to other illnesses/viruses to which we are much more familiar.
That said, I'm seriously curious why an attack on the media seems to be a part of so many arguments on both sides of issues but especially from those who tend to lean right.
One of the cornerstones of American democracy is true freedom of the press and yet the press is constantly and conveniently under attack and usually without basis, by so many people who do little or no fact-checking when blaming the media.
IMHO, if this country eventually fails as a democracy, possibly the biggest reason will be the media distrust viciously and wrongly sewn by those who themselves criminally prey on America. If you need a fresh example, read up on Steve Bannon and associates.
August 20th, 2020 at 5:28 PM ^
I can't speak for michgoblue but as a right leaning person...
1) I do not view today's media as news coverage. It's a get it on the air first to shock everyone coverage. They don't care of it is true, they never go back and correct themselves and generally, they are just trying to get as many viewers as they can.
2) If we are all being completely objective, all but one media station (I refuse to call them news stations) are left leaning. You cannot tell me that it is not advantageous for the media to continually drive fear to benefit their agenda. No different than FOX would do if a Dem was President.
Bottom line is that they are not credible and lack all accountability.
August 20th, 2020 at 5:55 PM ^
To add to what Tom said, the problem with the media's coverage of COVID can best be exemplified by a recent headline on CNN (which I am paraphrasing because I don't have the exact headline):
Florida Reports Over 4,000 COVID Cases For the 14th Straight Day.
Seems very factual. However the headline also could have been written:
Florida Reports Only 6th Straight Day of Declining Covid Cases, Down Over 65% From Its Peek Over Three Weeks
The first headline as CNN drafted is aimed at stoking panic, and provides no context. Is 4,000 good? Is it bad? How are the numbers trending? The second version that I drafted conveys the same numbers, provides the context that the 4,000 number is actually a very good number in terms of where the trend is heading.
Another example from CNN:
COVID Cases Surge in Children
Technically, this is true. However the context is missing. Prior to August, unless a child had COVID symptoms, they were not going to get a test. Hell, until a month or so ago, tests were still in short supply in much of the country. (Preemptively, I am willing to concede criticism of the federal response on this front). Now, with kids in summer camps, many of which require testing, and with schools getting ready to reopen in some form, kids are getting tested in large numbers. Since kids are usually asymptomatic, it is no surprise that increased testing - in particular in the target population of younger people - is yielding more positive cases. Again, CNN left out the context and in so doing, put out a headline that incited fear in most parents who were less informed.
Bottom line, the media, much of which is left leaning, is instilling fear and creating a narrative that COVID is a death sentence. There are parents in my area who say that when they signed their kids up for in-person school, they felt as if they were signing the kids' death warrant. Think about that - sending your kids to school during a pandemic of a disease for which kids have an almost 100% survival rate is equivalent to signing a death warrant? That fear stems from the media coverage, and in fact, is the reason that so many of us are so divided on this issue.
August 20th, 2020 at 7:43 PM ^
Ok, then how about a correction of this statement that you wrote:
"Fortunately for all of these other conditions, the media does not choose to sensationalize every negative outcome, report live case counts, tally the dead, etc. If they did, we would live in permanent lockdown"
...so that it instead reads:
" Fortunately for all of these other conditions, CNN does not choose to sensationalize every negative outcome, report live case counts, tally the dead, etc. If they did, we would live in permanent lockdown."
Instead, though, you (and so very very many others) continually to generalize by blaming "the media" or " the MSM" or "the press", etc, and in the process discredit ALL journalists and ALL media, when in reality the vast majority of journalists and outlets are doing their best to keep us informed and protect us from the very tyranny that results from a dishonest and unchecked government.
A free press is our best insurance that we don't become a totalitarian state; constantly demeaning of that very same free press pushes in the very direction we must avoid. It falls right into hand with what the current administration is striving for: totalitarianism.
August 20th, 2020 at 8:42 PM ^
I accept your correction. It’s not all of the media. But it really is more than CNN. MSNBC, the NY Time, the Washington Post and some of the most left leaning outlets are equally as bad (maybe not AS bad as CNN but close).
On another note I do agree that a free press is critical. But we don’t really get that when so much of the press is on the same side and activist in advocating, rather than reporting.
August 20th, 2020 at 10:01 PM ^
Look I get you try to straddle this “middle ground guy,” but you can’t say this with a straight face when Fox News exists and is the most watched network of all those you mentioned and as spreading active misinformation. The right wing echo chamber from Rush Limbaugh to Mark Levin to Hannity to Coulter and I could go on has been spreading vile garbage for years. Curious what your thoughts on bastions of journalistic integrity such as the Wall Street Journal which has recently had a revolt among its staff because of fact checking issues? I’ll won’t hold my breath.
I remember when I said something negative about DeSantis week back and you responded along the lines that we were probably aligned politically. Not a chance after I’ve been reading your posts for weeks. Just admit you’re a republican dude, you’ll probably be a lot happier and you can fully embrace it.
August 20th, 2020 at 10:37 PM ^
I highly doubt FOX is the most watched other than it is pretty much the only right leaning media source but I 100% agree with you that they are just as shitty as CNN, MSNBC, etc. As I said in a prior post... they are shock TV, not a news source.
Anyone that gets their news from any of these sources is going to get a highly biased and very misleading story. The is the point we are trying to make about covid stories on these sources. While some of the facts may be true, there is no context and are trying to cause fear.
August 20th, 2020 at 10:59 PM ^
Where do you get your news? Serious question.
August 20th, 2020 at 11:14 PM ^
For covid, I get it from the 2 doctors and 2 nurses in my family. They work in it, gain knowledge from other professionals and provide me with unbiased experienced based information. I also refer to statistical sites like the cdc and state dashboards to watch actual trends, not shock headline trends. I read scientific studies and pay special attention to who is funding the study. Meaning if a flu vaccine study is funded by big pharma, I am pretty skeptical of the results and try to find other studies to provide different views.
Honestly, the best thing I have done for my mental wellbeing and also taking care of my family has been to quit watching all media news and social media.
August 21st, 2020 at 8:33 AM ^
I mean in general - you don't read or watch any news sources?
August 21st, 2020 at 12:11 PM ^
I general, I definitely do not watch news media (i.e. shock news). Obviously it's next to impossible to not read articles when on the internet but if I read an article, I read the entire article because the truth is typically 4-5 paragraphs in vs paragraphs 1-3 being the shock value. I also then do my own research to validate the article.
Heck, I even research 90% of what my wife tells me because she gets a blip on Facebook and tells me. It is typically a very pro-conservative story that would be great if true but often only has a very small piece of truth in it.
I can't stand when people read part of an article then walk around spouting it as truth. I fact check pretty much everything whether it's something I support or something I am against. I neurotically want to be informed unfortunately.
August 21st, 2020 at 9:37 AM ^
1. I think that foxnews is as bad as the others that you mentioned. I Only didn’t list them because my point is that certain media outlets are spreading fear and negativity and covid specifically and foxnews isn’t doing that. Now, if you want to talk about sensationalizing a rapist / pedophile (Epstein) searching for nonsensical ties to Clinton and Obama in order to paint all Democrats as bad, yup, foxnews is completely guilty. They are equally bad on a number of other issues (the attempted defense of nationalist racist / anti-Semite groups is probably the most egregious). But, purely on covid, they are the only network not engaging in fear mongering of the major cable news networks.
2. I am a republican. I’m not ashamed of that at all. However, there are different types of Republicans, just as there are moderate democrats such as the clintons and extremist such as Bernie Sanders. My political views most align with the centrists of both parties and I have repeatedly crossed party lines to vote Democrat. Said differently, by NY standards, I am a Democrat. If I lived in Alabama, they would certainly brand me a liberal.
August 20th, 2020 at 12:36 PM ^
Well, this sucks. I feel bad for the kid and hope that the heart condition resolves itself through time. Stay safe, young man!
But I do have to ask - did you contract C-19 in the environment that GSU provided, or somewhere else? (I feel this is a relevant question.) Nonetheless, I'm glad the trainers and doctors were monitoring close enough to detect the heart issue - that says something about quality care.
August 20th, 2020 at 1:30 PM ^
There are no Covid-free environment ls on college campus, which are superspreader environments. So your question is irrelevant.
August 20th, 2020 at 2:18 PM ^
There are no covid-free environments off campus as well. Most teenagers and 20 somethings are super spreaders and most do not even know they have the virus.
August 20th, 2020 at 2:19 PM ^
It's a relevant question, but it's relevance depends on the answer to another question. Do the schools think can control the spread of Covid on their campuses? If no, then it doesn't really matter. If yes, then it makes the schools more aware that they need to be vigilant about it.
August 20th, 2020 at 12:39 PM ^
It's more than people dying. It's serious conditions that are happening now and whatever might happen in the future.
August 20th, 2020 at 1:01 PM ^
Morbidity sucks!
August 20th, 2020 at 12:43 PM ^
For anyone wondering: this is a shitty side effect that is not limited to COVID; the flu and other viruses cause myocarditis in young and old people every year but you just don’t hear about it very often.
August 20th, 2020 at 12:53 PM ^
I totally agree with this sentiment. I lost a friend who was in their late 20's due to myocarditis caused by a flu-like virus. It was horrifying.
The big question is whether COVID's affects are significantly more potent or frequent than other forms of virally-induced myocarditis. We probably won't know the answer to that for awhile.
August 20th, 2020 at 1:03 PM ^
What is a flu-like virus? What specific virus? Is there a vaccine for it? Is it RSV?
August 20th, 2020 at 2:02 PM ^
It was a viral infection. Severe, flu-like symptoms followed by a quick crash and myocarditis. I have no idea what strain of flu it was. I just know that my friend died at a very young age with no obvious underlying conditions.
I am extremely nervous about COVID's potential to inflate myocarditis numbers over the "regular" flu-induced variety that is also deadly, but I assume somewhat rare.
August 20th, 2020 at 1:04 PM ^
A college friend of mine was lucky to live through undiagnosed myocarditis caused by the coxsackie virus.
Edited to add: He was 21 and has had no health issues before or since -- newsflash: viruses can be extremely dangerous!
What makes COVID scary here isn’t that it’s more likely to cause myocarditis (we don’t know that; it’s possible) but that it spreads so efficiently via pre- and asymptomatic cases, meaning more people total get infected and pass it on faster.
August 20th, 2020 at 1:05 PM ^
Did your friend have any underlying conditions? I'm asking this question in good faith.
August 20th, 2020 at 1:27 PM ^
I see why you have -1500 points!
But no, he had none, and is, in fact, one of the most physically healthy people I know to this day. Absolute gym rat.
August 20th, 2020 at 2:58 PM ^
Yep, I lost my cousin nearest in age to myself from heart complications (probably) due to a simple rhinovirus. I never would have guessed simple colds in normal adults could be fatal until that happened.
A couple hundred million or so of us all getting a virus over a year or so is going to leave a lot more than death in it's wake. It's part of nature now and we're all going to get it eventually, and canceling a football season probably did more harm than good. She may have lived if she was in some sort of sports program, but she was just a regular Jane.
August 20th, 2020 at 1:09 PM ^
The fear is that myocarditis and other heart issues are being seen at an alarmingly higher rate With Covid than the baseline risk of 10 cases per 100,000 people nationwide
the reason you’re hearing about it so much is because it’s occurring so much more frequently. The heart attack rate has doubled since the onset of the Covid pandemic. Do you think that’s all coincidental?
August 20th, 2020 at 3:48 PM ^
I would qualify that with “it appears” to occur at a higher rate with Covid. Several things I have read about this indicate that myocarditis is very often undiagnosed. So at least some of the rise in this condition we are seeing may be related to looking for it more aggressively. The historical low detection rate and the fact that in most cases people recover often without knowing they had the condition will make it challenging to determine the Covid specific risk of this vs. other common viruses. I suspect it will be some time until we get clear answers on the risk.
Regardless of playing football it seems like schools and or the athletes themselves are going to need to dramatically increase the screening for myocarditis moving forward – particularly since clear answers on the risk are probably far from being known. Just because they are not playing football or any other sport, they are still division one athletes. They are not going to just sit on their couch because the season is canceled. Most will continue to train aggressively which will put them at risk if they have developed myocarditis. One question would be if there is a dramatic rise in myocarditis does canceling the season really do anything to lower the risk since the athletes will still continue to work out.
August 20th, 2020 at 5:39 PM ^
The counterpoint would be that a ton of people quit going to see their docs while on lockdown and in fear of going out. I haven't seen any of the heart attack stats but I have read where a lot more people were dying at home with heart attacks... not covid related.
August 20th, 2020 at 2:57 PM ^
Death is also a shitty side effect not limited to COVID. Whats your point?