Dave Brandon says students actually aren't showing up
Contrary to the "everyone is just squeezed in", Dave Brandon claims that students aren't showing up for kick off, or at all-
http://www.detroitnews.com/article/20121116/SPORTS0201/211160345/Michig…
Last weekend, athletic director Dave Brandon said there were 11,000 empty seats — there are approximately 22,000 student tickets — for the noon kickoff against Northwestern. It only sparsely filled in as the game went on.
Apparently it's a problem at big, non-early games too.
For the 3:30 p.m. kickoff against Michigan State on Oct. 20, there were 3,500 no-shows, Brandon said. And, another 1,000 students came in and validated their tickets to re-sell, bringing the total to 4,500 no-shows.r
Though it's not not just Michigan Students-
There is a trend," Brandon said. "I talked to my colleagues across college football and it's becoming more and more difficult to deal with the number of no-shows in the student section and the fact they arrive so late."
There seems to be an actually change over time by students, if not just by locale.
November 16th, 2012 at 1:35 PM ^
I'm sure that all of the in-state students from bloomfield hills, rochester hills, gross pointe, etc. are penny-pinching too. Sheesh. Do you have any information that suggests wage of parents correlates with ones ability to be a passionate college football fan and attend games?
November 16th, 2012 at 2:10 PM ^
I think you misunderstand me. Which is east enough to do, clarity has never been my strong suit.
I was making a couple of points. One, we shouldn't pin the "rich kid" label on nonresidents alone. From a sheer factual standpoint, that's not true and it bugged me to let that assumption stand.
But more important to the discussion, my other point: don't assume the student fans who are bailing are generally the wealthy/spoiled/entitled ones. That's a leap.
November 16th, 2012 at 12:09 PM ^
November 16th, 2012 at 12:10 PM ^
November 16th, 2012 at 12:14 PM ^
50% is way way to much.
Raising the cost of tickets will only make the problem worse.
Yes, lets just get rid of everything nice about college football while we are at it.
November 16th, 2012 at 12:18 PM ^
Until I see some evidence suggesting that collectively out of state students have decided to, in much greater proportions than before, stop caring about michigan football and to stop going to games, I have no reason to beleive that the apaprent malaise from students is unique to them. I don't know where this notion and the complete confidence in this statement is coming from.
Separetely, I think there should be a system that rewards attendance (and gives extra credit for showing up 15min or so before the game) not by credits as it is now. I don't see why a sophomore who attended every game as a freshman and was there early should have to get worse seats than a senior who goes to the two marquee games every year just because he had more credits. Seems like it would be an easy fix. That way kids sitting in the best seats are the passionate fans and the ones who want to show up late or only go to a couple games a year can sit in the 70th+ row.
Also, a punitive sytem should be put in place for those who missed a certain amount of games, where they are put on standby to get tickets in the event that the section is decreased in size. I don't think the solution would be to blindly prevent freshman to go to the games as many of them are passionate fans as well.
/end rant.
November 16th, 2012 at 12:23 PM ^
November 16th, 2012 at 12:33 PM ^
The point is just that it's probably MORE of a problem for them. Obviously this is anecdotal, but most of my in-state friends go to pretty much every game, whereas my out of state friends (most of whom are in frats/sororities) always tell me how they only went to the first game.
To be honest, as someone else mentioned, I think one big problem is that this year's junior and senior classes had to watch RR's teams get steamrolled during their freshman years and didn't get hooked.
Given Hoke's record at home, I think it's highly possible that this year's and last year's freshman classes end up showing up in greater numbers by the time they're seniors.
November 16th, 2012 at 12:47 PM ^
This seems like it's happening at more places than just Michigan. Absent some other explanation, it looks like college students have become noticiably less interested in going to their school's football games in the last 5 years or so. Nothing lasts forever, times change.
One change in that time is that the atmosphere at college stadiums has become more like pro stadiums, primarily with the rawk music. Is that enough to contribute to this trend? Hard to tell. Probably not.
November 16th, 2012 at 1:28 PM ^
Ok, I will buy the argument that out-of-staters may contribute more, but I don't think there has been some systematic change in only their minds to do so. So, I think just looking at them doesn't really fix the issue of crappy attendance.
I actually do agree with the RR point and I think that the non-conference losses this year may have taken some fo the wind out of the sail from the momentum that was created at the end of last year with the sugar bowl victory. Not saying that this is legitimate (i attended every game ...even when we lost to toledo), but a possible explanation.
November 16th, 2012 at 12:25 PM ^
So we've reached the point now where players (like Devin Gardner) have to release videos begging the students to show up on time? How sad is that?
November 16th, 2012 at 12:28 PM ^
Our seats are on the sideline across from the student section. It was another embarassing view of empty seats in the student section. When I mentioned it to my wife and brother-in-law (both alum - I am not) there was more excuses. Each week it's been, the game is too early, it's homecoming, they're still drinking.....
I suggested shrinking the student section which was an unpopular suggestion.
This was apparently our 243rd consecutive game with more than 100,000 people. The attendance last week was 112,510 with 11,000 no shows (in the student section) in a stadium that holds 109,901.
I for one will be there with my wife, 4 kids and other family because I can think of absolutley no better place to be on a Saturday.
November 16th, 2012 at 12:29 PM ^
It's simple. Cut the overall student allotment to no more than 15,000 for 2013. It appears that number will be more than sufficient to accommodate the students who actually want to go to the game to watch it. Freeing up the additional 7K for non-students will bring in more revenue for the AD dept.
In addition, keep track of attendance and arrival time for 2013. If students are still continuing to show up late or not at all, cut back the student section to 11,000 for 2014.
I'd be curious to know what the student allotment was back in the '70s when I was in school.
November 16th, 2012 at 1:16 PM ^
And how do you ensure that the people you sell the tickets to actually show up? If you use the current priority system (credits) you'll end up with a smaller section with the same percentage of no shows. - not really a food fix.
November 16th, 2012 at 2:42 PM ^
Definitely not for all sports. There used to be huge lines to get a student season ticket for the Fab Five basketball years. It wasn't unlimited. And wasn't there some football years where students got partial season ticket packages? I thought it right around the time some of them were moved to the South endzone too. Other schools give students partial ticket packages too.
November 16th, 2012 at 3:05 PM ^
I don't really remeber re: ticket packages, although there were definitely some students in the end zone while I was in school. Basketball was terrible so no lines involved (I do still kick myself for not accepting the free tickets (and pizza, I think) being offerred for going to what eventually turned into a home upset of Duke).
I seem to recall the AD making something of a big deal about that being a special thing about Michigan football, namely that no matter how many other people wanted to get in at full price, they were committed to guaranteeing a student season ticket for any student who wanted one. Wasn't there a fight over whether or not that privilege should apply to UM Flint and Dearborn students (I think some of them were denied in those south end zone years)? It would be a shame if we ended that tradition over some lazy no-shows.
Anyway even the huge lines thing wouldn't necessarily help. Getting motivated to stand in line once in the springtime is not the same as actually being motivated to going to all the home games.
November 16th, 2012 at 12:30 PM ^
I was a student basketball ticket holder last year. Halfway through the season, by the Maize Rage gate, I noticed a crate full of season tickets that were yet to be picked up and used by students. It was unbelievable. I figure that students just buy tickets in the spring as a reflex because that is what you're supposed to do. I'm an out of state grad student, I've bought season tickets every year I've been here, I hate Michigan State and the state of Ohio (I don't know how this actually happened, it just did) and have been to nearly every football game. If you care enough to go, you will. If not, there isn't much you can do to change their behavior. Certainly this stupid H.A.I.L program won't do much at all.
November 16th, 2012 at 12:35 PM ^
November 16th, 2012 at 4:39 PM ^
November 16th, 2012 at 12:35 PM ^
"Oh my gawd! Is that Dollar Dave Brandon's music?"
November 16th, 2012 at 12:38 PM ^
...i promise you, this will continue to happen, and all over the stadium.
mr. brandon, meet the bubble.
November 16th, 2012 at 4:06 PM ^
Some of you might tag it "trolling" but I suspect that the state of football in America is more precarious than many realize at the moment. Aside from diminishing interest amongst young fans, the concussion issue is going to only get bigger.
Sounds crazy, but in another 20 years people might actually be wondering how such a popular sport diminished & vanished like some old dinosaurs.
November 16th, 2012 at 12:48 PM ^
Rich Rod didn't happen at Little Brother, and their students aren't showing up either.
November 16th, 2012 at 12:51 PM ^
Trimming the student section just accelerates the trend of making a college stadium the same as a pro stadium. That's the last thing the problem needs. If anything, that trend should be reversed back to the time when students actually went to games.
The games should be first and foremost for the players, then their families, then the students, then alums and others affiliated with the school, and then and only then, the general public. Michigan Stadium isn't Ford Field.
November 16th, 2012 at 12:51 PM ^
November 16th, 2012 at 6:02 PM ^
Selling vouchers/discounted tickets would hurt revenues. If people KNOW that a certain amount of vouchers SHOULD be available, they will wait til before game time to buy those instead of donating / buying season ticket packs.
In order for people to pay full price they need to know that there is no cheap $5ish alternative.
There is a reason you never see late discounts. It messes with demand for the regular tickets. In econ terms, these $5 GA tix are a 'close substitute' and if a relatively equivalent good is much cheaper, people will flock to those and away from paying full price.
November 16th, 2012 at 9:03 PM ^
November 16th, 2012 at 12:52 PM ^
Set up a market to let students sell tickets as they wish.....let them make a few bucks to offset the ungodly tuition. After graduation, when I was still near enough by, it was never a problem ....however that was long ago and in a different.....sorry.
MGoBlog could run it and have a secondary income stream.
November 16th, 2012 at 12:54 PM ^
I don't know if it will help attendence but I always liked it.
November 16th, 2012 at 8:46 PM ^
Definitely on board with the marshmallows! Don't remember TP.
November 16th, 2012 at 12:57 PM ^
112,510 for the NU game kind of a joke doesn't it? It supports my belief that these announced figures during the game are not based on actual people in the stadium, but something else. And I think the no-shows are definitely not confined to just students. I know the 2 seats next to us have been empty for several games this year and I'm pretty sure they're not sitting somewhere else.
November 16th, 2012 at 3:21 PM ^
Just about every team in every sport now a days does the announced attendance based off of:
tickets sold, media passes, security, ushers, concenssion workers, etc. The reason the 'bigger' games have a higher announced attendance is they generally have more media, security, etc. It isn't because the school/team sold more tickets.
November 16th, 2012 at 4:11 PM ^
I'm skeptical of attendance figures.
I was at the 1995 5-0 game against Purdue in a sleet/rain blizzard and there is no way that there were 103,721 people in a Michigan Stadium when it looked, at best, three quarters full...unless maybe 30,000 people were hiding in the bathroom all game long.
November 16th, 2012 at 4:29 PM ^
It supports my belief that these announced figures during the game are not based on actual people in the stadium, but something else.
There is no mystery here. Our attendance figures are a combination of tickets sold and invited guests. Some teams don't count the invitees, but every major sports team - college or pro - uses the "paid attendance" in its official attendance figures.
November 16th, 2012 at 12:58 PM ^
the problem is the prices, student tickets are too expensive here. at UF they are only $15, at 'Bama packeages are either $15 or $20. Its just crazy to charge as much as they do here. I mean, $205 for 6 home games is stupidly overpriced.
November 16th, 2012 at 1:13 PM ^
November 16th, 2012 at 1:16 PM ^
Uh, everyone else pays 600 for the same tickets you're getting for 200. You can recoup that money by selling OSU or MSU and generally come out ahead which gets you the rest of the home games essentially free. I'm not seeing the problem.
November 16th, 2012 at 4:41 PM ^
November 16th, 2012 at 1:00 PM ^
November 16th, 2012 at 1:05 PM ^
Like you guys care, but here we go.
One thing that needs to change is that they need to not have games over fall break. That will automatically make a lot of people miss the game because guess what, we want to go home!
Secondly, there are three reasons people miss games. 1) They are drunk (not acceptable). 2) They're girls and it's cold (lame). 3) We have an absoutely ridiculous amount of work and studying to do (absolutely legitimate).
Honestly I don't know how to solve it completely. One thing I know is that HAIL is freaking awful. One you can't use it in the stadium because there are too many people (Nice job Brandon) and all I need is another Maize shirt. Seriously it should determine where you get to sit and if you can get tickes next year. As a senior I would love the opportunity to buy tickets for next year without the stupid donation fee or something like that.
I know a lot of schools that do first come first serve and I think that is ok, but I think its risky. I think it should be if you get to the game on time you get your seats and if you show up late you get whatever is left.
November 16th, 2012 at 1:18 PM ^
I'm getting tired of the "too much work" excuse. Honestly, you can't take four or five hours on a Saturday to use the ticket you already bought?
I know people have a lot going on, I am no different, but to spend money and then not go because you have too much homework makes no sense. It seems to me like better time management during the week could solve this problem.
Hell, some Saturdays I actually woke up early, got work done and then went to the game. Tailgating or partying after aren't essential if you have "way too much to do." If you can't go, don't buy tickets. School just isn't THAT hard, it's really not.
November 16th, 2012 at 1:40 PM ^
try majoring in physics
November 16th, 2012 at 3:08 PM ^
Masters in Aerospace Engineering. Went to all of every home game while I was a student (and in the same country). Graduated summa cum laude. It can be done :P
November 16th, 2012 at 9:20 PM ^
Got my Ph. D. in Space Physics. Went to every game as a grad student. If you majored in physics, you should be smart enough to get your crap done and enjoy the thing you spent your hard earned money on.
November 16th, 2012 at 1:41 PM ^
try majoring in physics
November 16th, 2012 at 2:39 PM ^
It sounds pathetic to people who were students in the past, who did show up to games.
Guess what...we didn't have fall break. We survived. Even got home sometimes. I'm still not even sure what the point of fall break is or why it was started. Can't go a month and a half without a break? Please.
School work/studying - the University has gotten so much tougher over the last few years. Students studied (and partied) just as hard in the past, and made it to the games. Unless you can show students today do so much more school work (and actually do it) than students for decades before it, the point is moot.
November 16th, 2012 at 3:32 PM ^
3) We have an absoutely ridiculous amount of work and studying to do (absolutely legitimate).I have a hard time buying this one. How many students really spend Saturday afternoons studying, outside of finals week? If we were talking about Sunday afternoon, OK, but my recollection from being in school here is that most people regarded Saturday as a day off from schoolwork and then got down to business on Sunday.
November 16th, 2012 at 4:52 PM ^
November 16th, 2012 at 5:40 PM ^
I was an undergrad almost 30 years ago, before the Brandonesque MBAish notions began overtaking every institution in society, whether or not it had anything to do with money. So while I won't be as arrogant as to say we were assigned more work, I will say without equivocation that the fatuous notions that students were first and foremost "consumers" and "customers" -- as opposed to people to be educated, which often involves making them work when they don't want to -- had not yet taken hold.
The student section was filled for football games then, too.
November 16th, 2012 at 1:11 PM ^
Reduce the capacity of the student section significantly and strategically. All student tickets are free (swipe MCard to get in). All seats are general admission which, if you do it right, will be filled well before the game because the supply of tickets has gone way down. For those that don't get into the game, put a big screen on the Diag to appease them.
Everybody wins.