Current QB's Thoughts on UM Fans
Brian Cleary, walk on RS Soph QB, has a Hot Take on the UM fans (via his twitter):
Easiest thing in the world is to abandon others and tell the world how much better youwould be in their situation. It takes courage to stand by someone and remain loyal because you believe in them regardless of the popular opinion. I know you think your history as a Michigan fan somehow makes your opinion relevant, but it doesn't. I love Coach Hoke, Dave Brandon, DG, and the rest of my teammates, and I'll stand with them until the end.
I understand you get frustrated with fan criticism. But goodness gracious. Once again, the people who pay hard earned money, invest thier time and emotion into the supporting the program are not cash dispensing robots. They are people. People who don't like to be treated like cash dispensing robots. When you treat them as such, they will walk away and spend that time and emotion with people who treat them like people and not robots. Their opinions are most definitely important.
Maybe I've been missing this kind of thing in the past, but between former players and now current players, there's a serious disconnect between the program, the athletic department, and fans. I mean none of the current vitrol is directed at the players. Yet somehow they think that whatever the AD does to fans is good. I don't get it, but it makes me feel even less a part of the UM community which was the source of my fandom in the first place.
EDIT: I should clarify: when it comes to things like player performance, no the fans' opinions don't really matter. But when it comes to how the AD presents the university to the world, or the policies that directly affect the fans, then yes, the fans' opinons are probably the most important.
UPDATE: Cleary seems to have clarified with the following statement in response to a fan asking if he didn't want the fan to show up for games anymore:
no sir. Passion from the fans is great, but your opinion on who is or isn't doing their job won't change how I feel about my team
Which, great, I'm glad that no matter what is happening you're staying with your team; I don't think anybody is going to be angry about that. I still have to say that fans' opinions on whether Brandon is doing his job is still very relevent.
October 3rd, 2014 at 3:07 PM ^
Eloquently stated!
October 3rd, 2014 at 11:48 AM ^
Why? Because they are supporting their coaches, AD and school? If your Son/Daughter/Wife/Brother/Sister/etc. were performing poorly, would you abandon them and say "They suck!"? This team and their coaches, in their minds, is their family. They spend everyday together year-round, working out, watching film, being roommates.... I would be concerned if they were turning their backs on each other and their coaches...
October 3rd, 2014 at 11:56 AM ^
At some point I would look at myself and ask the tough questions. DO I really suck this bad? Why do I really suck this bad? Is it all me? Am I being let down with the instruction that I am getting? I think in the end, you ARE allowed to wonder as a player if you are getting propper instruction regardless of how much you like your head coach. I do not see what the fans are doing as anything different than that.
To demand a certain level of performance is not by definition "turning your back" on anyone.
October 3rd, 2014 at 12:01 PM ^
I'm sure they are thinking these things, but if you're part of a team your failures are your teams failures. But you NEVER EVER throw your teammates or leaders under the bus....
If that doesn't make sense, think about the bro code... Don't throw your bro under the damn bus.
October 3rd, 2014 at 12:09 PM ^
I agree, but then.. you know... Don't say anything. Just quietly go about the business of trying to fix it.
That is what I am doing with the only avenue open to me as an alumn, fan, donor. I have expressed my displeasure with the current state of the Athletic Department and Football Program to the relevant people not even on twitter, just directly to them. Nothing more I can really do. So I come here to vent.
October 3rd, 2014 at 12:27 PM ^
In which case feel free to throw you medical staff under the bus and allow your coach to get hit by one. Seriously - no one could have texted, emailed or called Brady Hoke anytime between diagnosis on Sunday and 12:38 Monday??? Sam should have asked that specific question, and when on Sunday specifically was Morris diagnosed.
October 3rd, 2014 at 12:44 PM ^
October 3rd, 2014 at 12:11 PM ^
abandoning anyone and saying anyone sucks. I'm glad people are fully utilizing their Jump To Conclusions mat today.
It really isn't a great idea for players to come out and essentially tell their supporters to shut up because their opinion isn't relevant.
October 3rd, 2014 at 12:27 PM ^
October 3rd, 2014 at 1:35 PM ^
"Most of what they have been hearing not just this week but most of the season has not been good."
Well, yeah. Because this team is terrible.
"Should we be surprised that they are getting defensive?"
Are they surprised fans are upset?
October 3rd, 2014 at 1:40 PM ^
October 3rd, 2014 at 6:09 PM ^
October 3rd, 2014 at 1:07 PM ^
brady hoke gets paid like 5 mil / year in public money - hes accountable to the university and his bosses and indirectly to those who pay his salary. same goes for brandon, any argument to contrary just fails. and i got no problem with that dudes defensive comments - i get it - except for the sentence where he calls others opinions irrelevant. he can and likely should disagree with those types of opinions but does not mean students / fans / alums are not entitled to their opinions (as long as respectfully voiced opinions)
October 3rd, 2014 at 11:55 AM ^
You've officially taken Michigan arrogance to new heights with this statement. If you won't even support the players, who have been caught in a shitstorm of epic proportions, then go root for another team. It's pathetic how entitled some Michigan fans can act.
October 3rd, 2014 at 2:16 PM ^
then why watch? EIther watch and follow or don't...stop bitching that the players have opinions bc they do
October 3rd, 2014 at 11:43 AM ^
October 3rd, 2014 at 11:44 AM ^
This is not a good look for Cleary.
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October 3rd, 2014 at 11:46 AM ^
I don't see anything problematic in what he wrote. He's right - simply being a fan does not make one's opinion relevant. The tone is uncalled for, but I can't blame the guy for being frustrated.
October 3rd, 2014 at 11:47 AM ^
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October 3rd, 2014 at 11:50 AM ^
Neither is being a player. Or an ex player. Didn't we have this argument about 4-7 years ago. How'd that turn out?
October 3rd, 2014 at 11:59 AM ^
I'm not interested in having an argument. Cleary is making a pretty simple statement about supporting the guys he works with while they're here and not listening to outside noise, which is understandable given the fact that fans are personally attacking Hoke and Brandon. If people want to get their panties in a bunch over it, fine. Go ahead and spend the day being angry about what a backup QB said.
October 3rd, 2014 at 12:28 PM ^
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October 3rd, 2014 at 11:45 AM ^
I get that the kid is frustrated with the whole situation but attacking fans isn't the way to deal with this. It's unfortunate that this is the sentiment from many of the student athletes on campus and I thnk it's because of the AD. They don't value fans and that culture is spreading down to the athletes.
Soon it's not going to be music they're pumping into the studium but artificial crowd noise because people can only take so much.
October 3rd, 2014 at 11:54 AM ^
Its kind of interesting to look at this after a summer full of the court room drama over what constitutes being a student and whether or not student athletes are actually students. As much as the NCAA and others would like to argue that athletes are just like other students, its pretty easy to see when things like this pop up, that they are most certainly not like the rest of the students.
October 3rd, 2014 at 11:57 AM ^
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October 3rd, 2014 at 12:14 PM ^
October 3rd, 2014 at 12:48 PM ^
October 3rd, 2014 at 12:57 PM ^
October 3rd, 2014 at 1:28 PM ^
Anyway, I think it's important for the department to shoot down the us-vs-then mentality. If the players are only playing for themselves, why should the fans care? Why should they invest so much in a game? Michigan is a massive university that means much more than football, and right now its athletic department is giving it a black eye for reasons other than losing football games. If the students and fans are "irrelevant" then perhaps the students and fans should stop dumping millions into something that's only "relevant" to a hundred dudes each year.
I'm just worried that this is a self perpetuating attitude that is going to kill the thing Clearly obviously cares deeply about, and he's too blinded by the in group, Fort Schembechler mentality to grasp it.
October 3rd, 2014 at 2:18 PM ^
Cleary is fully entitled to complain about the booing in the "you may not mean it that way, but we players feel like you're booing us" way. It is good to remind fans of this. And telling him that he should understand that is not what we mean is a little like a white person deciding whether a black person should or shouldn't be offended by a joke.
But Cleary goes further. He makes no effort to appreciate the position of the fans. And because of age or inarticulation, he appears openly dismissive of us. That is wrong.
But Jeezus, this cannot be a pretty situation for any of the players on the football team (including hard-working, skilled walk-ons). Let's give the kid a pass and leave him alone.
October 3rd, 2014 at 1:38 PM ^
"It's unfortunate that this is the sentiment from many of the student athletes on campus and I thnk it's because of the AD. They don't value fans and that culture is spreading down to the athletes."
For fuck's sake. Serious question, is there anything wrong with any player or staff member on this team that isn't the fault of Brandon?
October 3rd, 2014 at 11:45 AM ^
That is stunning. It sounds like Mr. Cleary has forgotten, or never learned at all, that alumni donations and ticket revenue are what enables HIM to be in the position that he is in as a Michigan student athlete. To believe that fan and alumni opinion is irrelevant is just shocking.
October 3rd, 2014 at 12:14 PM ^
We, as fans, see only a small sliver of a much bigger picture. Cleary actually knows Hoke and Brandon. He sees the preparation put in day in and day out. We don't. We watch football games and organize petitions and demonstrations because we don't like losing. It's fine, and I can't say it isn't understandable, but our opinions relative to Hoke and Brandon and the jobs they do are really not very relevant to the players and people in and around the program.
October 3rd, 2014 at 1:38 PM ^
based on 31 years of experience, is the preparation put in day in and day out isn't effective as measured by the results on the playing field. I am not of the opinion that I could do that better, but I am certainly of the opinion that someone can prepare our players better based on a comparison to other teams' results around college football.
My other opinion - based on the bungling of the current and past PR incidents, is that the Athletic Department manages incidents in a manner that embarrasses the University.
Now why am I not entitled to express these opinions of mine?
If Mr. Cleary retracts that last bit of his statement - it was a rant after all - then the rest of his statement is a perfectly fine and understandable point of view.
October 3rd, 2014 at 1:12 PM ^
of two sides who see two different halves of a whole picture. The student athletes see Brandon show up at practices, talk to the athletes, etc. They see that he cares for them and has a passion for Michigan, but they don't see his policies alienating fans, students and alumni... whereas the fans, students and alumni see just the opposite.
Does it make our opinions irrelevant because we don't see Dave Brandon working everyday? No, because we do see the results of said work, i.e. screwing over fans, students and alumni. Our opinion (nformed from our half of the picture) is no more irrelevant than his (being formed from the other half).
What it comes down to is does the bad outweigh the good with Brandon. Sure he interacts with the players and shows them that they're important to the university, but any competant Athletic Director can do that. He also drives those who pay for the athletic department through donations and merchandise purchases away. To me that outweighs the good, pretty heavily.
October 3rd, 2014 at 12:19 PM ^
I don't blame the guy for sticking up for Hoke and Brandon, I really don't. I think they do a lousy job but he's definitely entitled to say something in their defense, and I wouldn't expect anything different.
To take a shot like that at the fanbase, though.... man. Those are the people paying lots of good money and driving or flying long distances in some cases to see your team play. I'm not defending those of us who act like jerks, but you can't lump the entire fanbase together and say they don't matter.
That being said... he's a 20 year old guy who has had to hear a lot of negative stuff said about people he cares about a lot. It was a stupid thing to say but I'd prefer to hear players get fired up, as opposed to laying down and taking it, like they have been on the field...
October 3rd, 2014 at 12:37 PM ^
Its easy to criticize a group of disgruntled fans, students, and alumni when you don't understand the big picture and think you're better than all of them.
October 3rd, 2014 at 11:47 AM ^
Cleary and other players have every right to be displeased with us fans. We're booing during games and ripping their coach. Cleary's sentiments are not surprising in the least, and I'm certain he's not the only player that feels this way.
October 3rd, 2014 at 11:48 AM ^
October 3rd, 2014 at 11:59 AM ^
Dont hurt their precious feelings...it is the most important thing in Feelingsball.
October 3rd, 2014 at 12:58 PM ^
later than the University of Michigan will now be abandoning Football in favor of Sarcastiball
October 3rd, 2014 at 12:00 PM ^
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October 3rd, 2014 at 1:40 PM ^
Right. Because of Brandon.
October 3rd, 2014 at 11:53 AM ^
when the guys in front of him are making punting on 1st down the better choice for field position. He needs to shut up and practice. Enough of this they are kids nonsense. Theya re adults not 5 year olds in little league.
Your coach gets milions of dollars to coach a team we have been supporting from before your dumb ass was even born. We will criticize him all we like. Learn to like it.
October 3rd, 2014 at 12:03 PM ^
October 3rd, 2014 at 12:17 PM ^
Keep telling yourself that enough and maybe it will actually be true.
October 3rd, 2014 at 12:39 PM ^
October 3rd, 2014 at 12:16 PM ^
He can be as displeased as he wants with the fans, but taking it public, shouldn't happen. It does not help Hoke's situation or their situation one bit.