Current QB's Thoughts on UM Fans
Brian Cleary, walk on RS Soph QB, has a Hot Take on the UM fans (via his twitter):
Easiest thing in the world is to abandon others and tell the world how much better youwould be in their situation. It takes courage to stand by someone and remain loyal because you believe in them regardless of the popular opinion. I know you think your history as a Michigan fan somehow makes your opinion relevant, but it doesn't. I love Coach Hoke, Dave Brandon, DG, and the rest of my teammates, and I'll stand with them until the end.
I understand you get frustrated with fan criticism. But goodness gracious. Once again, the people who pay hard earned money, invest thier time and emotion into the supporting the program are not cash dispensing robots. They are people. People who don't like to be treated like cash dispensing robots. When you treat them as such, they will walk away and spend that time and emotion with people who treat them like people and not robots. Their opinions are most definitely important.
Maybe I've been missing this kind of thing in the past, but between former players and now current players, there's a serious disconnect between the program, the athletic department, and fans. I mean none of the current vitrol is directed at the players. Yet somehow they think that whatever the AD does to fans is good. I don't get it, but it makes me feel even less a part of the UM community which was the source of my fandom in the first place.
EDIT: I should clarify: when it comes to things like player performance, no the fans' opinions don't really matter. But when it comes to how the AD presents the university to the world, or the policies that directly affect the fans, then yes, the fans' opinons are probably the most important.
UPDATE: Cleary seems to have clarified with the following statement in response to a fan asking if he didn't want the fan to show up for games anymore:
no sir. Passion from the fans is great, but your opinion on who is or isn't doing their job won't change how I feel about my team
Which, great, I'm glad that no matter what is happening you're staying with your team; I don't think anybody is going to be angry about that. I still have to say that fans' opinions on whether Brandon is doing his job is still very relevent.
October 3rd, 2014 at 12:38 PM ^
The poster said Brian Cleary has contrbuted more to the *university* than any of us have. That is a laughable assertion.
October 3rd, 2014 at 12:51 PM ^
October 3rd, 2014 at 12:47 PM ^
he had done more for the football team. Which would have been "duh". He said he had done more for the University. Which is a ridiculous statement.
There are a lot of other ways to "do things for the Univeristy" than being a 4th string QB on the football team.
October 3rd, 2014 at 12:55 PM ^
As much as I like Michigan Football - it's a mere blip onthe exitence and reputation of the university.
The university is great. It'll be just as great if Michigan goes the UChicago route.
October 3rd, 2014 at 12:53 PM ^
Cleary works as hard as everybody else on the team and has certainly done more for the University than you have.
Really?
I'm an alum, I've donated to the University, and I currently work for the University. I, on a daily basis, am helping Masters and PhD students with electrical engineering topics relating to their degree/thesis.
As a student I participated in many musical outreach progrms (as a member of the Campus Symphony and Michigan Pops), fundraising and volunteer work (HKN, SWE, Engineering Day), and other university affiliated volunteer activities.
I'm pretty far from certain that a walk-on QB who is entering his third year on campus has done more for the University than a university graduate (BSCE) who has been involved with the university for over 20 years.
October 3rd, 2014 at 11:52 AM ^
So many people playing the victim, get over it! He's pretty damn close to being right! I am a fan of Michigan. I have opinions on the state of our Athletic Department. My opinions are truly irrelevant. Thankfully I trust that everything will be sorted out eventually, this is Michigan damnit.
It's funny to say that you want them to keep silent yet we fans won't shut the hell up about everything. At this point, fans are dragging this out and it's absolutely a black eye for all of us (Brandon/Hoke's fault or not). These athletes (all of them not just football) love this university as much or more than all of us and they bleed for the university. You're telling me they can't speak up about it? Bullshit! You speak up when you're pissed about the university and demand change, then he should be able to speak up when he's frustrated with the circus.
October 3rd, 2014 at 12:01 PM ^
Only if you believe that the money you pay (and have paid over years) for tickets, souvenirs, special events, fund raisers, etc., mean you have no voice or say in how you are to be treated as a member of the Michigan community whatsoever.
I agree that he's entitled to his opinion and puts in a hell of a lot of sweat equity into the University as a student-athlete. But that doesn't render moot the point of view of current students, alumni, fans and friends who have been treated like dog shit by the AD.
October 3rd, 2014 at 12:03 PM ^
I definitely understand that point and have a lot more respect for the way you put it than most on here. These are just tough times, going to be a lot sweeter when we're back and you know that you've been through the lows with the team.
October 3rd, 2014 at 12:21 PM ^
"Only if you believe that the money you pay (and have paid over years) for tickets, souvenirs, special events, fund raisers, etc., mean you have no voice or say in how you are to be treated as a member of the Michigan community whatsoever."
If you are giving money to "have a voice or say" into the program, you have the wrong idea. If the fans do not act civilly, they should have no expectation of being treated in a civil way. Why is it so hard for you all to understand why the players might feel this way? Why is it that the fans have the "right" to spout their opinions, but players should remain silent because the fans might be offended? The majority of those posting in this thread have the mentality that they can treat others any way they feel fit, but they demand that they themselves be treated with the utmost respect. You are all wrong! And it says more about your character than Cleary's.
October 3rd, 2014 at 12:35 PM ^
Are you seriously suggesting that the AD's implementation of rawk musik and Special K, fees to be on the season ticket wait list, extra fees for the privilege of buying season tickets, general admission for students, raising student ticket prices by 30%, being practically frisked going into games like we're about to have an audience with the President, a ban on seat cushions, etc., etc., etc., was because fans were ill-behaved?
October 3rd, 2014 at 5:12 PM ^
we aren't really discussing rawk musick and Special K, fees to be on the season ticket wait list, extra fees for the privelege of buying season tickets, GA for students, raising student ticket prices by 30%, being frisked going into games, bans on seat cushions, etc. We were discussing a student athlete's tweet about fans in response to a large and very loud contigent of fans who are making the players feel isolated. You have a right to voice your displeasure about things, just make sure you are doing it through proper channels and don't cross the line and go from human decency to douchebaggery (not saying you are.....but others certainly have).
October 3rd, 2014 at 1:08 PM ^
Nobody's saying (well - let me speak for myself - I'm not saying) that the players should remain silent. There's nothing wrong with them sticking up for their coach, each other, and so on. There is something wrong when they cross the line and tell the fans to shut up and their opinion isn't relevant.
I pointed out the other day in criticism of Jay Feely that if it's fair to say that fans should not criticize because they've never been through what the players have been through, then it's also fair to say that Feely has no right to talk about ticket prices because he's never paid to go to a game. Neither are actually valid critiques, though.
What Cleary is saying is similar to if someone had said, "that idiot Morris. He has no experience with brain injuries, he doesn't work on them, who the hell is he to claim he should get to stay in the game?" Rightfully so, whoever said that would be negbombed beyond recognition.
October 3rd, 2014 at 11:53 AM ^
Is it that hard to say, "We haven't been winning so I think that's why the fans are frustrated. We need to find ways to win because that's what the fans deserve."?
Seriously, it's not rocket science.
October 3rd, 2014 at 11:53 AM ^
I don't even care if the players hate the fans now. Something...ANYTHING...to get them motivated and show some passion and fight on the field. Dark times, these
October 3rd, 2014 at 11:55 AM ^
Dark, indeed. Just sad really, we'll be back :)
October 3rd, 2014 at 11:54 AM ^
Fans can generally be fickle. Emotions rise and fall based on your team's performance. I don't believe this will happen...but if they win out this season... I believe there will be a completely different narrative and the majority will reverse their position and talk about how the team stuck together, and showed character, Brady will be back to pooping gold, etc etc etc.
October 3rd, 2014 at 11:55 AM ^
..but at the same time, we should probably remember that the coaches and everyone else inside the walls of Fort Schembechler are using the negative press/sentiment as a motivational tool. The us against them mentality is ok with me if it helps them win Saturday. Still unfortunate, but the kid is 19 - perhaps we should cut him some slack?
October 3rd, 2014 at 12:02 PM ^
October 3rd, 2014 at 12:07 PM ^
Exactly. It's just "different" when you're a part of it all.
October 3rd, 2014 at 12:33 PM ^
It's always different for people on the "inside" of anything. In situations where something exists because of the interplay and continued support of those on the "inside" and those on the "outside", then both sides must strive to understand the needs and concerns of the other side, or the whole thing falls apart. And that's what's been happening for like the last three years for the UM football program. And it needs to be mended or it's never going to get better. But I seriously doubt if the current athletic department leadershipt can mend this relationship. That's what I'm worried about.
October 3rd, 2014 at 1:04 PM ^
October 3rd, 2014 at 1:22 PM ^
I bet you don't see nearly the same level of those different mentalities at a D3 school where athletes are actually normal members of the student body.
October 3rd, 2014 at 1:37 PM ^
October 3rd, 2014 at 1:44 PM ^
I don't know about the other guys here, but I was a hell of a saxophone player back in the day. Could have gone pro. No way in hell my fellow students would have booed.
....
Sorry, I couldn't help myself. I can be such a smart ass sometimes.
October 3rd, 2014 at 2:13 PM ^
If my instrument broke in the middle of a performance, or if my conductor was making a complete fool of himself, beyond the pale of conducting technique or common sense, then booing or heading for the exits would be in the cards. If I were doing battle with a difficult concerto and losing, then booing would be a possibility, or the equivalent through nonverbal communication, ragequitting the performance, etc.
Fortunately, despite my poor performance and the poor performance of my conductor, the stage is still standing in the morning. The theater can pay its own bills. There are many shows at this theater and if one fails, it can still make money on the other ones. Unfortunately my show happens to be the big fundraiser for the theater where most if not all of the monied grayhairs come out to listen, so if I and my conductor play poorly to the point of eliciting boos, the theater might not be in such a good spot in the business.
October 3rd, 2014 at 2:26 PM ^
I dont know about DIII, but my brother played FCS and it was the same there. And I have 5-6 high school team mates that played DII and it was the same there.
FBS, FCS, D2 - Have athletic scholarships
D3 - No athletic scholarships
You were a musician. If your fellow students booed you, would you be OK with them just because they were your peers?
With performing I always held the same opinion I do about running up the score - don't like it? Play better.
I've never been the least bit mad at folks who have booed me - they were booing because I was failing at my job of entertaining them.
If I didn't like getting booed it was MY issue and I needed to either get better at providing what the audience wanted, get used to booing, or get out of the business.
October 3rd, 2014 at 12:39 PM ^
Michigan will knock the snot out of Rutgers. Go Blue!
October 3rd, 2014 at 11:56 AM ^
Somebody find this program a leader fast because this thing is done.
October 3rd, 2014 at 12:05 PM ^
pick me! ;)
October 3rd, 2014 at 11:55 AM ^
October 3rd, 2014 at 1:26 PM ^
The big difference -
It is the coaches and players job to win games.
It is the fans entertainment to cheer, go to the games, donate, etc.
Players and coaches are remunerated for winning games.
Fans remunerate the players and coaches.
October 3rd, 2014 at 1:50 PM ^
October 3rd, 2014 at 2:32 PM ^
That remuneration is contingent on their performance of some service.
Umm... yes, by definition of the word.
They are perfectly entitled to be disappointed in you not fulfilling your end of the bargain
...but that isn't what they're complaining about. They're complaining about fans exercising their right to complain after fulfilling the bargain.
Unconditional support no matter what ISN'T part of the bargain - but that is what the players in question are asking for.
October 3rd, 2014 at 2:04 PM ^
How is it the players' job to win games?
October 3rd, 2014 at 2:28 PM ^
job: a task or piece of work, especially one that is paid.
October 3rd, 2014 at 11:56 AM ^
Brian Cleary is saying that the football players are more courageous and loyal than Michigan fans.
Is he wrong? I don't thinks so.
Yes, UM fans are making an emotional and financial commitment, no doubt. But players are making an emotional, financial and physical commitment to Michigan football too.
I don't like what David Brandon is doing, and I have disliked the decision by Michigan to select a 47-50 head football coach in the first place. But I think it's rather silly to suggest that UM players aren't entitled to their opinion about the recent controversies, even if those opinions are skewed to one side and defending an incompetent head coach and a money-grubbing, Scrooge McDuck AD. Should we be surprised or mad about their support of coach Hoke? No. The perspective of events is no doubt very different from within the ivory tower of Schembechler Hall.
Regardless of the pubic embarrassment and angry mobs, the players are not going to quit on their program or on their coach. I think the football team sure be commended for being loyal and not quitting.
October 3rd, 2014 at 12:06 PM ^
Many of the current and former players have quite strongly suggested (as has been discussed numerous times on this site) that they did exactly that to Rich Rodriguez and to Brady Hoke in the past few years.
Moreover, where was all of this unwavering support for the coaches by former players when Rich Rodriguez was here? Weren't the then-current players calling out the former lettermen for that very failure?
Too much of everyone (AD, coaches, players - current and former, students, fans, etc.) wanting to have it both ways right now. And we're all paying a heavy price.
October 3rd, 2014 at 12:36 PM ^
I may be extrapolating here, but I think most fans understand that the current players love their coaches, and that is perfectly acceptable. But it's not fair to say that fans aren't allowed to be unhappy with the AD just because players love him/the coaches.
October 3rd, 2014 at 12:50 PM ^
October 3rd, 2014 at 12:53 PM ^
You're right, they don't have to care. But they should. Because the fans can walk away. What happens then?
October 3rd, 2014 at 1:08 PM ^
Here's where I part company with you and some others here. The players should not really "care" what the fans think (not that they should be telling us to f--- off, however). They players need to be doing what they do for each other, their coaches, the school. That's pretty much it.
Bo said it best, and I think it really applies here: The Team, The Team, The Team
It's the AD who needs to give a shit what the fans think. The problem is, he doesn't either (at least those of us who don't own a suite). To him, we ARE the "customer" and he is treating us poorly.
Many, many, many people have pointed out that even 3-9 and 5-7 didn't keep hundreds of thousands from remaining on the season ticket wait list and a Big House filled to the rafters. It wasn't until Dave Brandon determined that it was time to "break" what wasn't broken that things changed and rapidly.
October 3rd, 2014 at 3:56 PM ^
Yes, you are correct; I got carried away with that last post. It's the athletic department's job to balance both the needs and desires of the athletes and the fans and to keep both vested in programs. The athletes should focus on suceeding and and representing the university and the AD should focus on keeping the fans happy and showing up for games.
October 3rd, 2014 at 11:57 AM ^
Anyone on the team should have that stance. Moving on.
October 3rd, 2014 at 11:57 AM ^
Without the fans (and donors) you have no facilities or equipment and are an insignificant club sport. The fans invest their time, emotion, and money and that investment is no less important or relevant than the contribution that the players and coaches make. Neither will exist without the other. I guarantee if the fans all left, college football would not exist for long.
October 3rd, 2014 at 12:07 PM ^
October 3rd, 2014 at 12:47 PM ^
Of course winning always helps, but this is getting beyond wins and losses. It's never been this bad even during the Year of Infinite Pain or the RR years. Time will tell of course. Fortunatly UM has spent 130 or so years breeding loyalty into it's fanbase, and it will take a lot to run them off. Three or four years of discontent isn't going to do that. But if the fans are not pleased with the way they are being treated, then it's only natural that the loyalty will wane. UM football will of course still exist, but can it remain a national juggernaught without soon returning to pumping out legions of loyal masses?
October 3rd, 2014 at 1:11 PM ^
October 3rd, 2014 at 11:58 AM ^
The fate of the coaches and players are linked. When you root for Hoke to be fired you are rooting for players to fail because if Hoke is fired it means the team as a whole is failing. You can't say I want Hoke gone now he sucks and not expect the players to respond to that. Or to say Hoke doesn't care about player safety and not expect players to respond to that.
To expect players to throw their coach under the bus in support of fans they don't know is crazy. They are going to support the man they see and work with every day over fans who buy a ticket everytime. To expect them to do different is outrageous. Also to expect them to not take any of the booing, boycotts etc personally is crazy as well. When they are working their asses off on the field and the boos rain down they don't think oh they must just be booing the play call it's not because I missed a block.
Players see a different side of Dave Brandon than fans. He is the guy who gets them all the nice facilities and the academic advisors etc. Again to expect them to throw Dave Brandon under the bus in favor of fans they have never met is crazy. I am not saying fans don't have legitimate complaints but the anger spewed at current and former players when they come out and support Hoke and Brandon is misplaced.
October 3rd, 2014 at 12:37 PM ^
October 3rd, 2014 at 2:06 PM ^
To expect fans to not throw their coach under the bus in support of players they don't know is equally crazy... but that is what these players/former players are asking for.