Can you "coach around" a bad O-line?
I have a belief that the O-line is the very foundation of the whole team.
A great O-line opens the running game, the running game then opens the passing game, both of which then leads to Time of Possession advantage, which rests the defense so they can be top notch on the field. I cannot remember a championship team that did not at least have a "good" O-line.
Most of all- a good O-line reduces the chance of your QB (the queen of the football chessboard) from getting injured.
But am I wrong? I do not know nearly as much about football as the collective readers here know.
Can you "coach around" a bad O-line?
September 2nd, 2018 at 2:50 PM ^
you joined one month ago, but talk like you've been here a long time.
September 3rd, 2018 at 12:09 AM ^
I'm asking because I honestly want your opinion:
If Warinner is such a great coach, why did the line look so bad yesterday? How can it keep looking so bad every year, in Harbaugh's 4th year?
September 2nd, 2018 at 12:37 PM ^
I can think of a few teams that have managed to do this very thing. Most recently, Penn State got to the conference championship game with an offensive line that was at best subpar, but they managed to make it work, even getting around 400 yards of offense per game on average. You could also go all budget Wisconsin (as Wisconsin usually gets great line play) and use TEs to slow defenders on the edge. There are definitely ways to do it, but will we do it?
September 2nd, 2018 at 12:44 PM ^
The enablers also had a generational RB. We do not.
September 2nd, 2018 at 12:45 PM ^
Is the current pass coach able to do that? Does he have a history of doing that? It looks like he is not able to do it. We have seen his work in 14 games. Have we seen him do it?
No.
September 2nd, 2018 at 12:40 PM ^
when the giants beat brady and the pats perfect season, i saw brady under real pressure on every play.... its ALL about the OL.... Bo and Mo and even Lloyd early on knew the importance of the OL..... RR I guess didnt do bad with Lewan, Schofield, Omameh, at first... Hoke tried but got utter morons in Kalis.... Harbaugh only time will tell... he has failed at recruiting tackle the first two years WHEN WE NEEDED TACKLES MORE THAN ANYTHING...... Now he recovered with some young guys but frey is now gone...lets see if we land that kid from minnesota benhart... we wont get keegan. if Ike isnt a consolation, then we will be in trouble yet again .
used to be we'd get huge guys like benhart over and over, and our two and three deep at T were better than what we have now starting.
so now, we wait a few years, for mayfield, hudson, and hayes. sad.
September 2nd, 2018 at 3:11 PM ^
I don't understand his OT recruiting. Sure we lost out on Hamilton to Stanford, which happens. But then why do you turn around and replace him with an OG in the class? Nothing against Spanellis, but we need OTs.
September 2nd, 2018 at 12:40 PM ^
Some coaches, yes. Michigan coaches, no
September 2nd, 2018 at 12:54 PM ^
Purdue does a good job playing around the OL too
September 2nd, 2018 at 1:03 PM ^
You absolutely can, and it’s amazing we didn’t do much of it. You generally want backs and TEs and H-backs in to add extra blockers (our backs were pretty bad pass pro blockers from my first watch though) and you either leave them in to block or have them chip a DE as they go into patterns. You also want to run screens and draws to keep people honest about rush lanes, and quick hitting plays like slants and bubble screens to get the ball out quickly. You generally want to avoid slow developing plays where the QB turns his back to the defense and want to avoid empty sets.
I only remember one or two (poorly executed) screens, no draws, a couple bubbles (which worked nicely), and a ton of empty sets (in which i would scream at the tv as they predictably blew up). The game plan was remarkably dumb given how bad the LT obviously was, so not sure what the coaches were thinking.
September 2nd, 2018 at 1:04 PM ^
We have the piece in place to "coach around" it. 1-2 mobile enough and accurate passer on the run. Wide spread WR/TE talents. a few things need to be in place if we go side line. Our WR blocking is subar, that lead to modest gain on bubble screen play. I think our WR route running is better than we see yesterday. There are likely a lot of grabbing by their DB that are not in display. NBC didn't even show those views, likely intentionally. Gentry's constant dropping pass and cannot make any tough catch make me down a little though, it is a waste of his physical talent if he keep dropping ball. that said, those grabbing should be expected, it will be worse in MSU/OSU game. The WR should stop complaining to ref and work their ass off to practice on tough catch and jump ball.
September 2nd, 2018 at 1:05 PM ^
The OL and RBs need to practice picking up stunts and blitzes every hour of every practice for the rest of the year.
September 3rd, 2018 at 9:30 AM ^
They have been doing that. That's what's scary.
September 2nd, 2018 at 1:11 PM ^
Captain obvious here.
September 2nd, 2018 at 1:13 PM ^
I would trade every TE on this team for one Jake Butt, and dare I say a slow, yet gives you everything and then some, selfless De’Veon Smith for Higdon.
Not that our current guys can’t get better (more raw talent, imo) but they have a long ways to go to show J Butt and D Smith level passion for the game.
September 2nd, 2018 at 2:55 PM ^
I am right there with you. The TE play last night was terrible. Their routes aren't crisp. They look like they are drifting. Gentry shouldn't have bodied up that DB in the end zone.
As for the running game it is hard to say because they didn't stick to it like they should have despite being down 14. There was no continuity to their play calling. It was like under center here gun there, plays weren't building off each other. No pace also.
September 2nd, 2018 at 1:17 PM ^
I don't know any playcalls that make up for the fact that you 1) can't pass block, and 2) apparently can't run block either.
September 2nd, 2018 at 3:25 PM ^
Agree. Few if any play calls are designed to require no blocking.
September 2nd, 2018 at 1:20 PM ^
Not in the Big Ten.
September 2nd, 2018 at 1:52 PM ^
We're about to find out.
September 2nd, 2018 at 2:02 PM ^
ND lost two top 10 picks off their O Line last season and their line held up fine and their coaches moved the pocket to help their QB out.
MSU had as bad or worse of an O Line as we did last season and went 10-3.
You can coach around a below average line
September 2nd, 2018 at 3:16 PM ^
I wouldn't say their OL held up fine. They were definitely scrambling to protect Wimbush. But Wimbush is a better athlete and they were able to exploit our aggressiveness with his speed. They were able to get the edge though, maybe we were blitzing and getting caught inside, not sure. We couldn't get the edge because Runyan kept getting blown up.
September 2nd, 2018 at 2:06 PM ^
Yes, teams with lesser talent win games against top teams more than we do.
September 2nd, 2018 at 3:26 PM ^
i cannot recall the last time michigan won a game they weren't expected to or that was even a 50/50 game.
September 3rd, 2018 at 9:33 AM ^
If we keep going the way we are going, we are going to start winning games we're not expected to:
Rutgers
Maryland,
Indiana . . .
September 2nd, 2018 at 2:09 PM ^
Not for a championship caliber team. Drevno really failed Harbaugh in both recruiting and coaching what players he did bring in. The lack of OL talent and development has delayed Harbaugh a few years. But I think Harbaugh is a great coach and eventually he will turn our program around. I just hope he does not get upset with the media, press and fans turning sour on him, where he will just leave for an NFL job.
September 2nd, 2018 at 2:53 PM ^
Drevno failed Harbaugh? That comment is ridiculous. Jim Harbaugh is the head coach getting a haul of cash. All these recruiting stunts and hype. Bring in talented OL. Develop players. It is ultimately his responsibility in terms of who is recruited, who develops his coaches (coaching staff), and how his teams performs. Blaming a former assistant for a weak o-line????? That doesn't even make sense.
While I do agree with you that Harbaugh is a good coach and he will hopefully turn things around. He is the head coach and responsible. They have given him tons of money and given him every opportunity to hire great assistants. Turning sour is one thing, but expectations aren't being met. You don't pay out like this for .500 football.
September 2nd, 2018 at 2:22 PM ^
Coach them? Yes.
Will you win games consistently doing so? No.
There is no evidence that you can field a below average offensive line year-after-year and still win the majority your football games. And especially not against above average defenses.
In short, no, you can't get away with poor or even below-average offensive line play in the game of college football. This is why coaches recruit hard for the most talented offensive linemen that they can attract.
September 2nd, 2018 at 2:35 PM ^
To even have to think about coaching around a bad o-line at this point is absurd. Year 4 and they are starting two of the worst offensive tackle combinations in the country. It is inexcusable.
With that being said the play calling has done very little to help the line out. Last night not one play built upon the next. You want to go under center and run the ball then that is fine.... run some play action off of that. Run a screen pass, run a draw etc.... You want to go in the gun, then go in the gun and run some screens or draws out of the gun to take advantage of the other team unloading on your line. Not to mention there was no pace. They did very little to help their situation out.
September 2nd, 2018 at 3:19 PM ^
If you run the option every dang play with pitchman available, maybe
September 2nd, 2018 at 3:27 PM ^
Yeah the option worked really well when they ran it last night. LMAO. That was really well coached up and executed.
September 2nd, 2018 at 6:28 PM ^
Why would we not just line up a TE outside of the LT on every passing play, and have him chip the WDE and then go out for a short route? Seriously what is the downside of that?
September 2nd, 2018 at 6:38 PM ^
You can coach around a bad o-line.
Our o-line isn't "bad." Its an unmitigated disaster.
You can call quick passes if your tackles are talentless try-hards who are generally in the way of a pass rush even if they cant hold up for 3 seconds. You can't hide a guy who blocks air.
Our tackles aren't bad. If the tackles were just "bad," we'd be griping about not quite turning the corner to become playoff contenders. This is a team that will need to improve greatly to be bowl eligible. Our tackles literally might as well not have been on the field at times. Coaches can scheme around a couple bad players in an 11vs11 game. Vince Lombardi himself couldn't move the ball if forced to call plays 9vs11.