Bufkin to the Draft
Coach Howard has his work cut out for him next season.
Sweet the bar has been lowered to just making the tournament.
The players in the portal that we're in on may not be enough to make the tournament. We have Dug, Burnett, Tarris, and need to fill two starting spots and then hope that Lewellyn, Tschetter, Baker, and TWill are enough of a bench.
Yo Yo is a starter and will be a good one. Everyone is overlooking him, it's so bizarre.
Are you ok? He scored 12 points in 35 games behind Cheddar and Williams which is our worst 4 combo since Ellerbe was here. What are you basing this off of? He may take off but he was basically behind 2 corpses and couldnt get time or points.
They did the same with Kobe last year.
They're also ignoring what potential GW3 may bring.
At this point its raising the bar.
You can, but it doesn't consistently work. The teams that have succeeded through the portal have brought in a single or at most two missing pieces and coupled that with longstanding players.
Half of SDSU's starters are transfers. Miami famously bought half their roster in the off-season.
This team wasn't going to win a title regardless of who came back and it's going to be a rough season next year in all likelihood. But this place spent all year saying how much they hated this version of UM play basketball so now they'll get their wish and can walk a largely brand new team play. But acting like transfers are uniquely only for shitty teams isn't reality.
That's just not true. Between those two teams, there were three players who were both meaningful contributors and first-year transfers. The idea that the portal offers a likely easy and instant fix just doesn't comport with reality.
So now you've moved the goalposts from only one-season transfers? Matt Bradley at SDSU came from Cal 2 years ago, Trammell came from Seattle this year, and Parrish came from Oakland this year as well, plus LeDee is basically their co-starter at center and came from TCU.
Pack from Miami came via KSU this year, as did Omier, and Miller came from George Mason 2 years ago. And again that's just guys I remember being recent transfers during the various broadcasts.
How is that fundamentally different than Michigan bringing in transfers to add to a "core" of Dug, Reed, Williams, Baker (from this year), and whatever they get from YoYo/TSchetter? That's not a title team by any means but I don't think most people saw FAU, Miami, or SDSU as title contenders either this year. There's absolutely a path where you get 2-3 decent transfers and the team looks not unlike a NW/PSU/Iowa/MSU/etc. tier of teams that are in the tourney but out no later than the Sweet 16. So like the vast majority of college basketball teams.
I'm not moving the goalposts. We're talking about next year. You can't bring in someone from the portal next year whose been at Michigan for more than a year. You can't possibly be arguing that if we have a bad season next year we still should keep Juwan.
You said "teams that do well only bring in 1-2 transfers and build around cores" and I gave you examples of where that wasn't the case. Then you said "only bring in transfers for one year" and I responded with how this team still would look like a lot of teams in CBB.
You want Howard gone and are unhappy with basketball; that's fine. There's nothing wrong feeling like that. But you keep arguing in circles whenever I push back with evidence about how it's not that different from lots of teams.
UM will probably being in 3-4 guys total from the portal. That's a bit on the high side year-to-year but the difference between 2 and 3 isn't huge and given how many guys left for the NBA/transfer it's not crazy. But right now UM has a returning starting PG, a starting PF, some key bench guys in Tschetter and Baker, a veteran guard in Llewellyn who is probably going to give you something in the back court, and some young talent in YoYo and Reed. That's not a championship core but it's not bereft of talent, especially if GW3 and Kante can give them something. Add a couple of transfers and it's an okay team.
Your examples were Miami and San Diego State. Those examples don't fit your narrative. Their transfers had primarily transferred two years prior. We're talking about next year. If your argument is that Howard needs to be given two years, say that. But you can't use those two schools as examples of what Michigan can do next year because the numbers just don't match. This isn't football where three transfers may not be much. In college basketball you typically have only an eight man rotation.
Your examples were Miami and San Diego State. Those examples don't fit your narrative. Their transfers had primarily transferred two years prior.
Again, I'll repeated myself, with links, since you just aren't following me.
SDSU
- Darrion Trammel - transferred in this season.
- Jaedon LeDee - transferred in this season.
- Micah Parrish - transferred in this season.
That's 3 of their top 5 scorers. And as noted, Bradley is a 2-year transfer and he's their leading scorer.
Miami
- Nijel Pack - transferred in this season.
- Norchad Omier - transferred in this season.
So 2 of their top 5 scorers and if we're again throwing out Miller for being a 2nd-year transfer fine.
So out of 10 starters on 2 Final 4 teams 5 of them were transfers in this year and another 2 are 2-year transfers. And that's also not considering the teams that had freshmen playing big roles, who you could also classify as guys "brought in" and not part of the existing foundation you claim good teams build around from past seasons.
I'm sort of done arguing this point with you because your core argument is "I don't like Howard as a coach and so every argument I have is based on that conclusion and I'll work my way backwards".
Again, don't let facts get in your way.
First, points aren't the only measure of a player's contribution. Neither, LeDee or Parrish started and collectively those players combined to score (your preferred measure) half of the overall points that Michigan needs to replace on a percentage basis. On Miami is 14%.
The trajectory is bad, has gotten progressively worse, and our best player is transferring because even he agrees we can't compete. You've yet to identify a reason to keep Howard apart from his incumbency. But I'm working backward...
Who's reality. KSU's roster was all transfers. Only two were in the team prior to this season. Check that reality. You're basing things on your thoughts not reality. And who's going to fire Juwan,"you?"
If they miss the tournament next year, he should be fired. It's not that complex.
MSU's 2 "stars" this past year were transfers. They just actually stayed their entire careers unlike a lot of transfers who are one and done.
Kansas State there was not ONE player on the roster who got to an Elite 8 who was recruited by KSU. It's a whole new era son.
What teams have had sustained success? Even the blue bloods are struggling for consistency. UNC went from a Championship Game appearance to not making the tournament -- after adding more talent than they lost. There is no program building anymore. Right now smaller programs are having success with 24 year olds playing in their 6th seasons, but once the extra COVID eligibilities expire, you'll see that cool off.
Again, that's not true. Apart from UNC, every other blue blood had a good season and appears likely to repeat that next year.
Yeah, talk to Kansas, Duke, Kentucky, Arizona, UCLA, and Michigan State fans. They are all just smitten with their seasons.
UConn is having a great season (now). They were bounced by New Mexico State in the first rd last year and went 23-10. I'm sure all their fans saw that as a clear building block to a National Championship run in 2023 at the time.
It's all just be random now. The blue bloods will have a higher floor bc they have the best freshmen. Some squads will bring in transfers that work (Miami) some will bring in transfers that don't work (UNC). And it'll all start over the next season with new batches of freshmen and transfers. Your best bet is an undersized guard with no NBA appeal who can stay around 4 or 5 years and help glue together the freshmen and transfers each year when they arrive (like K-State this year).
What person wouldn't take their seasons over ours?
There's really no such thing as a blue blood any more
I set my bar for that standard pretty high, elite success across multiple generations of coaches on programs that recruit themselves. Can't think of any other then UNC, Kansas, Kentucky, UCLA, Indiana - and Indiana pretty shaky.
These programs have built in advantages, but those advantages have narrowed significantly. Can't just rely on recruiting and stacking classes. Coaching, cohesion, and development play a much bigger role. It is the schools who do this well and are flexible enough to adapt to a fluid environment that will succeed in the near future.
Kansas- Played tournament without Self and assistant got outcoached. Early exit.
Duke- 1st year coach. Made the tournament and early exit.
Kentucky- Has been a shitshow for a while and fans are ready for a change
Arizona- 2nd year coach. Made the tournament and early exit
UCLA- Experience coach. Lost to a near-blueblood team that was peaking at the right time.
Michigan State- Fuck Sparty, They always seem to benefit by good matchups early in tournament.
Michigan- 4th year coach. Didn't make the tournament and lost in 2nd round of NIT.
“Kansas, Duke, Kentucky, Arizona, UCLA, and Michigan State fans”
Yeah, let’s take a look at all these struggling teams. Duke won their conference tourney, UCLA won their conference, AZ won their conference tourney, Kansas won their conference. So the only ones that didn’t hang a banner were Kentucky and MSU. They didn’t do great in the tournament, but they hardly struggled all year. MSU didn’t hang a banner but made a Sweet 16. That’s really not too bad of a year. I’m sure their fans are pissed bc of the nature of fans, but to act like all these teams sucked this year is ridiculous.
You don't even know what the $&$ you're talking about what is,"good?" Sweet Sixteen? I can't do this anymore. You're juvenile.
Villanova has 2 titles in the past decade and didn't make the tourney. Kentucky finished third in the SEC and got bounced in the first round of the SEC tourney and the 2nd round of the NCAA tournament, and they haven't gotten out of the 1st weekend for years now. Arizona and UCLA did...fine in the Pac-12 but neither did much in the tournament. MSU finally got out of the first weekend of the NCAA tournament for the first time in 5 years.
Maybe all these teams repeat next year and maybe not; at this point trying to prognosticate a year out is a guessing game.
Coach Howard won the B1G and went to an elite 8 two seasons ago.
Coach Howard went to a Sweet 16 one season ago.
He is not destroying the program.
Please, just stop rooting for Michigan. You will be happier, we will be happier, everyone wins (except Howard, because he sucks, amirite?)
And no, I'm not dismissing or downplaying anything... I'm simply giving the man the time he has earned and I'm not jumping off the deep end over one season.
Howard came in at a rough time and has done well. I have faith in him.
The last two years have been a disaster. Michigan deserves better. Not what is happening right now.
Juwan Howard has had more success in the NCAAs than every other B10 team in recent memory. Kindly shut the fuck up or put your money in an NIL fund and pay these kids.
EXACTLY! They need money too. It's not the same game. They'll never have a team, ever again where 5-10 kids stay for four years.
If these "kids" are just going to go play wherever will pay them the most, then what is the point of all this anymore?
People should just all become NY Yankees fans or Dallas Cowboy fans since they throw around the most money.
School sports mean something different - anything else is just a money-driven facade.
Who, specifically, do they deserve?
Brady Hoke won a BCS Bowl.
Kevin Ollie and Ed Orgeron won a national title.
It is mental gymnastics to not note that the team is .500 the last two seasons with a lot more talent than they will have next season.
Thanks for being a voice of reason.
Idiot! First he can't develop talent now it's his fault they decided to better themselves and their families for the future! Yeah right. It's their decision, not his!
Those who stay...
Those who leave will be forgotten.
Would've loved to have him back, but seems like he's probably a lock to be a 1st round pick. Definitely been fun to watch him slowly develop into a star this season and hope he has success
He's not a lock. This year's draft is loaded. Next year's is looking very weak.
He's mid to late first round pick according to anyone who is credible. There is some big boards that don't even have Bufkin on them and those are self reports that they don't know shit
You can't reasonably judge next year's class until...next year.
60 execs make 90 promises to 90 kids and there is no legal binding contract involved. This is why 30+ kids every year go undrafted when they leave a scholarship, some NIL money, and a degree going unclaimed. Kobe is good enough but I think all of these tweeners get vague promises and it really sucks. Its not the kids, its not the NCAA (well it kinda is since they dont pay them for their NIL in the NIL era???) its the NBA execs loading up their options with another round of players that wont get drafted.
Will we win 10 games?
Good question.
Who is we?
How can any team build a program when everyone is one and done? This is why Beilein left college because of this nonsense...
It’s Juwan’s fault
/s
Whose responsibility is recruiting, retention, roster construction? If as everyone claims, this era is a new reality, how come it's affecting Michigan so much harder than its competitors? If everyone else has adjusted and we haven't then we've done something wrong. And if we've done something wrong, the person in charge should be held accountable.