Big Ten Network on Campus Today
August 13th, 2019 at 10:51 AM ^
The sole objective on B1G visiting campuses, as far as I can tell, is to make every team in the league look like a potential conference champion before the season starts. I mean I watched it this morning as I worked out (they were in East Lansing yesterday I guess) and now even I wonder why Brian Lewerke isn't a stronger candidate for the Heisman giving his gushing praise by their talking heads.
They do a good job of providing positive PR for the league they cover. Hard-hitting journalists? Not so much.
August 13th, 2019 at 11:07 AM ^
Honestly, I've been saying this a while and I know this board hates it but I really think MSU has a huge shot in taking the east this year. Their defense is gonna be nasty and they'll have at least an average offense. I really hope our guys still have much anger to deliver when we play them..
August 13th, 2019 at 11:11 AM ^
Some math problems IMO
Hate for opponent MSU >> Michigan
Talent level Michigan >>>>MSU
Which is why we usually win, but not always
Hate for opponent OSU >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Michigan
Talent level OSU >>>>>>>>>Michigan
Which is why we never win.
August 13th, 2019 at 11:13 AM ^
The use of absolutes will kill you.
August 13th, 2019 at 11:27 AM ^
Only a Sith deals in absolutes
August 13th, 2019 at 2:42 PM ^
Than you are lost!
August 13th, 2019 at 3:37 PM ^
More or less?
August 13th, 2019 at 11:32 AM ^
Which of the four do think is even remotely incorrect?
And by never I mean to say one win in the last 15 fucking years and for a 60 year old Michigan alum like me that is about as close to never as you can get.
August 13th, 2019 at 11:50 AM ^
Death and taxes are the only ones (absolutes) that I know of. Oh, and BPONE for some of us.
August 13th, 2019 at 11:50 AM ^
I would say that the only thing incorrect about what you wrote is that we most often beat Michigan State. I think it feels like this should be true but isn't quite yet at this moment.
August 13th, 2019 at 12:05 PM ^
I think statistics bear out the conclusion.
August 13th, 2019 at 2:41 PM ^
Are you drunk?
August 13th, 2019 at 3:25 PM ^
No. Statistically we have beaten MSU more than we have lost to them.
August 13th, 2019 at 7:59 PM ^
Ok. I get that, but we are 3-8 against them in our last 11 matchups. That is statistically significant at this point.
August 13th, 2019 at 4:21 PM ^
I wouldn't say our "talent" on defense is better than MSU at this point. It may end up that way, but we lost A LOT. Those slugs have a bunch of three year starters who are going to be really good on that side of the ball.
August 13th, 2019 at 11:52 AM ^
Oh, and you are just a young-un compared to me. 64 next month.
My freshman year was the year of Denny Franklin's broken collarbone 10-10 tie with OSU.
August 13th, 2019 at 12:21 PM ^
You've got me by 10 years (54). The OSU game in 1973 is my first recollection of Michigan football. I remember watching the game at my grandparents' house in Brighton. I think that we were at the recently opened Briarwood Mall when the word came down that Michigan wouldn't go to the Rose Bowl.
August 13th, 2019 at 12:39 PM ^
But we sure had it good in the 90’s
August 13th, 2019 at 3:33 PM ^
I won’t chime in on “what we should have done” or the “talent disparities” between this team or that team, however, I am fucking ecstatic that we have a highly touted, improved, and very capable 2nd year starter (with actual depth behind him) under center and behind an All-B1G caliber line going into the season. And for the first time in...12+ years?
**The QB position is by far the most important in college football (probably all levels) trailed closely by the offensive line.**
The defense takes a small step back but we have more reasons to feel confident in this team than any other since Harbaugh arrived.
August 13th, 2019 at 4:49 PM ^
Conservative play calling won't get the job done this season. Harbaugh needs to open up the offensive. Peters is the guy that can get that done.
August 13th, 2019 at 11:45 AM ^
I'm not downvoting you, but can you tell me why you believe their offense will be average this year?
- Lost their best player Felton Davis
- Still don't have OL that can move people off the ball / can't run the ball. This has been a problem for years.
- Have no RB of note
- Have an inconsistent QB who throws off his back foot - often accurate, often lol
- TEs?
- WR's Cody White and Stewart are good. They were on the team last year and the offense was awful (yes White was hurt and missed several games, but even accounting for that Davis was a better player and is gone)
- Injuries is the excuse they give often: a lot of them were to interchangeably bad OL, another to Davis who's gone
Their defense lost very good players in Dowell (#2 tackler), Willis (#3 tackler), Layne (#5 tackler and best cover corner), and Racist John Reschke (#8 tackler). I don't think Scott is as good as everyone believes - I think he's a great zone corner with instincts, but our big WR's will beat him 1-on-1 if given the opportunity, and ohh boy Gattis is going to give them the opportunity. But even putting subjectivism aside, that's a good amount for the D to replace. And if they have injuries on defense? They're in big trouble fast. If any one of Bachie, Raquan Williams, or Willekes went down, the drop off is steep.
August 13th, 2019 at 11:53 AM ^
It's obvious. It is the same reason why the local media is looking for a big rebound from MSU this year. Because Lewerke had those few good games..... a couple of years ago...... we think.... wait did he... is he still injured.... was he actually injured..... there was a Lombardi situation, right? PLAYER DEVELOPMENT!!!
August 13th, 2019 at 3:06 PM ^
What are the odds Lewerke is still standing by mid-November? With no run game he is going to be running around a lot and ergo getting hit a lot.
August 13th, 2019 at 12:06 PM ^
How did we lose to MSU two years ago after they were LOL 3-9? Monsoon, O'Korn, etc. I know. But precisely zero people here thought that was possible and everybody had that same cocky, 'MSU is no longer an issue' attitude and then we had to sit in our own puddle of piss for a full year.
It's not MSU-related, but we did the exact same thing with PSU. Kicked the shit out of them in Ann Arbor and mocked "Field Goal Franklin" and dismissed all of their success as they beat OSU, scored a billion points against everybody, won the B1G, etc. This board dismissed them all the way until the moment we strutted into Happy Valley and got ham blasted 42-13.
It's happening right now with this MSU team. They were shit last year. "94 Yards! LOLZ". And now they're right where they love to be. Underdogs. Afterthoughts. Dismissed. Overlooked. Mocked. They'll have an elite defense. They return a metric shit-ton of offensive players lost last year to injury. It's the same fucking story and we're all too damn stupid to see it.
I'm not losing sleep. I believe spread has worked better against Dantonio's defense than what we'd been running. We're due to win one at home against them. I'm not predicting a loss. But the fact this board is more concerned about fucking Army than Michigan State is just ludicrous.
Once we lost those examples I referenced above, we refocused and Revenge Toured our way to retribution against both PSU and MSU. But it took a humbling loss to get there. As Wolverine91 says, I hope we're still as angry and determined as we were a year ago, because they sure as shit will be.
August 13th, 2019 at 12:27 PM ^
Couldn't agree more. The sparty game will ALWAYS be tough. ALWAYS
August 13th, 2019 at 12:29 PM ^
Michigan's last two losses to MSU were 1) will-never-happen-again-if-they-play-for-another-200 years bad luck, 2) -5 turnover margin. Full stop.
No one wins a game with a -5 TO margin. The gross win % is literally 4%. If your opponent has pulse, you lose. It's extremely rare, only happening 2.8% of the time. A turnover is worth 4 points, so Michigan gave up 20 points in a game they lost by 4.
It's blind random luck. MSU had bad luck when they went 3-9. It happens. But there's no boogeyman, it's not a lack of focus. Michigan has been the better team at least 3 of the last 4 years (-5 TO game is excepted because it's not clear how MSU would have played if Michigan didn't keep giving them the football, i.e. more aggressive passing), and will be so again this year.
August 13th, 2019 at 12:42 PM ^
To summarize: We've lost games in the past that we probably should've won, so there's no way we can lose a game in the future that we should probably win.
I'm sold.
August 13th, 2019 at 12:51 PM ^
Or, if you believe in math, one negative outlier event at the furthest end of the distribution tail and another at the very far end have occurred in the last 4 years. Given that, it is not a guarantee, but it is highly highly highly unlikely that another such event will happen in the near future (for the first event, 200 years, in the second event, a 2.8% probability). This is not exactly how you should read statistics, but as a ballpark view it's close enough.
I can't argue your feelingsball with you. If you believe that "want-to" or "flaming desire" or "bulging passion" are the reasons teams win or lose football games, I have nothing to say other than I disagree with you. And we're fans in any case, our feelings mean nothing. The team doesn't get overconfident and overlook rival teams, in my view. And if they did, neither you or I would have an way knowing they did.
August 13th, 2019 at 1:01 PM ^
In his defense, his original post was talking almost specifically about fan perception and reaction to Michigan State more so than the players on the field. And I do think he has a point there.
The Board sets itself up for meltdowns all the time. There were people on here predicting Michigan to win that game against MSU in 2017 like 45-3, despite Michigan looking really shaky for that entire season up until that game and being without its starting QB. That was an irrational expectation, and this place lost its collective mind because we lost a game that people had chalked up as an automatic W for no good reason.
Last year against ND is another example. There were calls to "fire Harbaugh" because we lost a road opener to a Top 15 team by a touchdown.
We are better than we were, no doubt. But thus far not as good as the Board collectively thinks we are every August.
August 13th, 2019 at 2:31 PM ^
I'm not arguing about Michigan fans and their swing in reactions (I would say every fan base does this, it's not a novel idea or an interesting viewpoint).
I'm arguing from a position of knowledge - an analysis of the MSU team in 2019 based on what information we have, and the random unlucky events that prevented Michigan from winning at least 3 of the last, which in turn have caused posters like the emotional one above to have an "angry man in the sky hurt me" fear of Sparty.
"As Wolverine91 says, I hope we're still as angry and determined as we were a year ago, because they sure as shit will be." This is a description of the players and not the fans, and it's emotional nonsense.
August 14th, 2019 at 7:47 AM ^
The mistake people like you consistently make is trying to use logic to predict a rivalry game outcome. This fanbase doesn't do hate. It's no surprise they can't grasp the concept.
August 13th, 2019 at 1:02 PM ^
Guy, again, read what you're writing.
If you flip a coin and hits heads twice in a row, that has no bearing on whether the third flip will be heads. You want to believe it can't hit heads a third time. And you think that's irrefutable. Fine.
I'm not arguing feelingsball. I'm telling you MSU is a quality football program we haven't beat in Ann Arbor under Jim Harbaugh and blindly counting them as a win and giving them no chance before you've even seen a down of the 2019 version based on what some other versions of these two teams did is run-on-sentence crazypants.
August 13th, 2019 at 2:14 PM ^
Of course I'm doing none of what you propose here. You are being a scaredy-cat.
August 14th, 2019 at 7:51 AM ^
Even when you see them play, it doesn't matter. They'll tank their season on purpose just so they won't show anything to Michigan.
August 13th, 2019 at 1:07 PM ^
This is the issue I have with those who discount desire and other emotional factors in college football. You aren't just arguing with human nature and BTW, key factors in life that make one person more successful than others in every industry there is, but you're also, as a fan, arguing with football players--who constantly discuss these factors as legitimate reasons for a win or loss.
August 13th, 2019 at 2:38 PM ^
I'm not sure which way you're arguing here. But to put it succinctly: I assume Michigan players are just as rip-roaring to go as MSU players when it comes to game time.
August 13th, 2019 at 12:31 PM ^
Your overall point is well taken, I agree, but I really think the 2017 loss to Michigan State was a really massive outlier in terms of outcome than we have allowed ourselves to believe in the immediate aftermath. It took A LOT of really really weird shit for State to win that game. Deflected football were flying right to Michigan State players. Throws were bouncing off of players shoes resulting in interceptions. Brian Lewerke inadvertently rolled on top of another player resulting in a first down. I'm not one to take State lightly, I learned my lesson on that, but I don't think that was really the same kind of thing as Penn State.
August 13th, 2019 at 1:06 PM ^
The 2017 MSU game wasn’t “weird shit” in my estimation. It was either the worst or 2nd worst coached game of Harbaugh’s tenure, for a variety of reasons:
- We attempted 35 passes for the game, with roughly 3/8ths of the game played in a monsoon. Unsurprisingly, 3 were intercepted in the midst of the monsoon
- Karan Higdon, despite stacked fronts and poor passing conditions averaged 5.4 yards per carry...and was given a grand total of 12 of them
- halfway through the third quarter, Michigan scored a TD to make it 14-9. Knowing full well a monsoon was on the horizon we did not go for 2. This really bit Michigan as they were almost to field goal range when the game ended and the rain was substantially less by that point
It was not Harbaugh’s finest hour.
August 13th, 2019 at 1:11 PM ^
Harbaugh coached a really shitty game.
AND a lot of weird shit happened.
We could have survived one of them.
August 13th, 2019 at 4:28 PM ^
What happened in 2017 is irrelevant. What is relevant is that MSU has the toughest D-Line we will face this season, and those assholes will come to play. It will be a close game.
August 13th, 2019 at 12:57 PM ^
I'm going to respectfully disagree with you about that 2017 Penn State game. Everybody knew they'd be better in 2017, and we all knew it was a night game white out at Happy Valley. And EVERYBODY knew that we were on extremely thin ice with JOK at QB.
I don't know a single person who was dismissing PSU for the 2017 game, and I know a fair amount of people--including myself--who were expecting a potential curb-stomping.
August 13th, 2019 at 1:08 PM ^
+1. We did shit on them the rest of 2016 despite their indisputable success, but re-reading the comments in the game preview it was a lot of the standard optimism when running into a quality team. Point conceded.
August 13th, 2019 at 1:08 PM ^
Hatter.
Mad Hatter was completely dismissing Penn State in 2017.
I don't know why I remember that, but he was very certain that Penn State was fraudulent and that we were going to trounce them. He almost had me convinced.
August 13th, 2019 at 2:17 PM ^
Yes, but his screen name is the Mad Hatter. That doesn't strike me as the screen name of somebody likely to provide the most astute and rational football analysis.
August 13th, 2019 at 12:15 PM ^
You're leaving out, though that they have new life in their offensive coaching scheme. They don't have any new coaches, but they have been shuffled around to different positions. That's going to solve all their offensive problems!
August 13th, 2019 at 3:39 PM ^
Conflicted user account name. Check.
August 13th, 2019 at 12:25 PM ^
I appreciate your response. TBH the main reason why I think they'll be average at least on offense is because of salems "system" and moreso the motivation and the rejuvenation they'll get from it. Yes I know it can only take them so far, but they have some talent offensively to make it work. Lewerke is an average to good QB for what they'll be running. He'll make plays with his feet which should keep defenses honest. They don't have a good RB situation but I think they'll be passing more anyways with receivers such as who you mentioned plus jalen nailor. The offensive line was a huge issue last year but if they develop some chemistry, they should be alright.
Defensively, they have a good amount of talent. We all know about the returning starters. Faster LBers with Thompson starting. If they stay healthy, they'll be really good. But yes, if they have a couple injuries then they'll go down fast.
Overall, dantonio always has rebound seasons. This team has more talent than the 2017 team that won 10 games so I don't think it's out of the ord to expect somethin similar. (Also side note that's not really relevant but msu seems to have really good odd years goin back to 2011 for some reason lol)
August 13th, 2019 at 12:35 PM ^
That's fair, but I think you're doing what many people are: papering over the severe deficiencies in the offense by saying "they'll be better" or "they can't be worse" or "they'll get back to average". Their OL is the primary problem, and has been for years. They can't fix that - the guys they have are it. They won't be able to run the ball. If you can't do that, you're in trouble already. Now Lewerke presses, and when he does that he makes bad decisions. Add that to his inconsistency (throwing off his back foot) - can be good and can be bad. White/Stewart/Nailor were all there last year, didn't save them.
Who knows what kind of offense they're running? Do you really think it will be much different? If it is, there will be transition costs. "So what, it can't get any worse". Yes it can. And a bad OL is a bad OL - scheme can't fix that. Why would they develop chemistry? It's the same guys who have been there for years. Chemistry is not the problem, being bad run blockers is the problem.