Athlon Sports - Big Ten coaches give anonymous takes on B10 teams
Interesting write-up over at Athlon. They gathered anonymous quotes from B10 coaches, talking about other B10 teams.
Nothing earth-shattering or dramatic in the takes on Michigan. I thought this was an interesting take, and reflects the questions I have for this year's offense as well:
A lot of coaches think they still want to grind you out and don't want to embrace the change. They've done a great job recruiting on offense; they can switch to a full on spread and score a lot this season. It's not even a major change — it was just that you had to scout and respect that the kid could pull it and run, or just the threat of it.
The real gem here is the takes on MSU:
This is a program that's never as bad as their record. That being said, the change in the division is starting to show, and they can't dominate when the big three are clicking like they have been.
Gentle burn, that one.
I think at their best MSU is similar to Iowa, but they have better athletes. They're going to work you and grind you like a lot of those West Division teams, and maybe that's the best identity when you're a have-not program in the East.
Emphasis mine. That escalated quickly!
They want to beat you up right away in games. They want to get really physical, really press you on the line with their defensive backs. They play extremely hard out there, like a less talented team trying to compensate, but they have the speed and the length.
So much disrespek.
Good read overall, would recommend. Also, there seems to be a consensus that OSU is not going to skip a beat without Urban...and I would tend to agree with that. They still have a ton of skill and talent in that offense.
August 7th, 2019 at 12:00 PM ^
"they're the suckiest bunch of sucks that ever sucked."
August 7th, 2019 at 12:03 PM ^
“Oh, I gotta go. My damn wiener kids are listening.”
August 7th, 2019 at 12:34 PM ^
You have dachshund puppies?
August 7th, 2019 at 12:33 PM ^
Weaseling out of things is important to learn. It's what separates us from the animals. Except the weasel.
This is a top five, all time, Simpsons quote.
August 7th, 2019 at 12:02 PM ^
Hard for me to believe coaches have that view of OSU without Urban. Remember he was just suspended for game days, he was coaching the damn team during the week. The head coach is just about Everything in college football - have the right one and you can win, despite lack of resources, recruiting disadvantage, facilities, etc. Have the wrong one and you can't win despite having everything else. No one knows if Day is right one or wrong one. He has not proven it. Maybe all signs point to yes, but you don't know until he's done it. And no last year's few games don't count.
Maybe he gets the 1 year where the team is still essentially Meyer's so they all play just like last year. That's normally only true when you have a senior team. But with a new QB, new OL, and new set of defensive coaches, this is Day's team now.
August 7th, 2019 at 12:05 PM ^
Day is going to be a moderately more successful Clay Helton.
In 3 full years as head coach, Clay Helton won the Pac 12 and a Rose Bowl and has been in two NY6 games.
And is on the hot seat this year. What have you done for me lately? How is the team trending?
Unknown if he's actually on the hot seat. Lynn Swann has done a good job of making it seem like he's not. Not the usual AD speak of support that means the opposite. it's hard to know what to expect from Swann.
If the fans and media could fire coaches, he'd already be gone, along with many others.
Clay Helton is not a good coach, and is recruiting terribly this year. Firing is coming. For your sake you should hope Day is way better.
Let's see how Day holds up to the pressure over the course of a couple seasons, especially when there are some losses and especially losses to Michigan. I would not want to be on the hot seat when those lunatics in Ohio start turning on him.
August 7th, 2019 at 12:25 PM ^
It'll be interesting to see.
Larry Coker won the BCS in his first year and went to overtime in the BCS championship game; his teams started to fall off by in his fourth year and then he lost control in his sixth year.
Earle Bruce came within a point of an undefeated season and probable share of a national championship in his first year but never finished better than 10-3.
Ohio State certainly has the talent to be good under Day for at least the first couple of years. Let's hope he starts off like Larry Coker finished.
August 7th, 2019 at 12:38 PM ^
There's an excellent article by Seth in HTTV about following a legend (and unfortunately, Meyer certainly qualifies). The results suggested that there will be a slide.
It's true first year coaches can have teams that play just like the prior year. But there are some other big changes at OSU that may short circuit some of that.
While it is true that there is often a slide for the coach replacing a legend, that is often because:
(a) Legend coach was getting on in years and was starting to fade in his recruiting towards the end;
(b) New coach comes in and there is some element of culture change, getting to know the new players;
(c) In any coaching change, there is often a lost recruiting class (or at least a down class) while new coach get his staff finalize and recruiting machine in place; and
(d) In a coaching change, but especially when a legend retired, you might see some attrition.
As an example, while even I (and he is my avatar pic) do not believe that Lloyd Carr qualifies as a legend, when he left, his last few recruiting classes had some serious holes, RR represented a huge culture change, there was definitely a down recruiting class during the transition class, and there was a good amount of attrition.
By contrast, Day is walking into one of the most stocked teams in all of college football, he was on Urban's staff so no culture change, his recruiting has continued pretty nicely for a new coach and rather than having attrition, he just brought in a 5* transfer at QB. If he doesn't continue to do well under these circumstances, it would be an epic failure on his part and quite a surprise to me.
RR’s years weren’t because of Carr’s recruiting at all. It was philosophy and not having the players or coaches to run that philosophy successfully.
I don’t think anyone expects osu to go 3-9, but do they have the offensive players to run Days system this year? Is their QB a pass first guy that can sling the rock anywhere he wants? Do they have replacements for those receivers that left? Can they get open to help Fields?
Their offense will take a major step back this year but should still be dangerous enough to win any game on the schedule. Their defense will still have holes in the back 7 though and may be relied upon to win more games than last year.
I don’t think it’s unreasonable to think osu could drop 3 games this year, which would be their worst season in awhile.
RR’s years weren’t because of Carr’s recruiting at all.
I'm not sure you could be more wrong here.
We have Lloyd's recruiting to thank, in part, for Brady Hoke's 11-2 year and our only win over OSU in the last 15. The RS Juniors and Senior contributors on that team were thanks in NO PART to RR.
And the recruits that came in RR's 1st year that came simply because it was Michigan was the Michigan Lloyd had established; similar to the success Day is enjoying this year.
I thought we were giving credit for the 11-2 year to all the lucky horseshoes and 4 leaf clovers that were falling out of Hoke's ass.
Odd, I don't remember Lloyd recruiting Denard. What the fuck are you talking about?
I guess it’s easy to look back and say a lot of those guys from Carr’s last three classes didn’t pan out, but Michigan had the top class in the conference two of those three years and was 2nd the other.
Carrs last three classes provided 15 top 100 players. Harbaughs last three years had a total of 9.
Carr’s recruiting is not why RR failed.
RR’s years weren’t because of Carr’s recruiting at all
How the fuck do you explain Threet and Sheridan then?
August 7th, 2019 at 10:15 PM ^
Ryan Mallet was a top 5 recruit. He bolted why? Because of offensive philosophy under RR. That’s why we were stuck with Threet and Sheridan. You can argue that there wasn’t anyone behind Mallet had he even stayed, which was definitely Carrs fault, but any QB Carr would have recruited would have been a square peg in RR’s round hole spread option.
1. Mallet is a jerk and already on thin ice -- don't portray him as the second coming of the best QB ever.
2. You're still proving my point for me. If Mallet goes down, then Threet/Sheridan are in. That's still Carr leaving the cupboard bare.
Larry Coker inherited THE best college football team of all time, both in terms of talent on the roster then and the NFL talent that those players would develop into (in fact, the first of several players from that team to make the Hall of Fame was inducted last weekend). I'm not kidding when I say Brady Hoke could have coached that team to a national title. I tend to think OSU's ceiling is short of that.
and only lost because of that BS pass interference call. I grew up a Miami (YTM) fan and started at Michigan the year after that game. So I had already learned to hate OSU before even stepping foot on campus
August 7th, 2019 at 12:40 PM ^
I actually think Day was a pretty good hire for OSU, similar in many ways to Howard for Michigan's basketball program. It's better than just trying to clone Meyer. It's high upside with some downside attached to it.
That said, OSU for the most part is going to still be good. The majority of games they will come out looking like Meyer never left the sideline. The real question is what happens when there is adversity? What happens when things snow ball a little bit, team gets too low or too high, or off track, or whatever else. That likely only comes into play probably a couple games a year, but you go .500 in those games, and even that's a significant change from what OSU is used to.
Yes, it can snowball completely on you and you can lose seasons (see Michigan: 2014). I think OSU is about as well set up to avoid that though, and I'd have more confidence in Day than that.
A lot of this same thing is the primary question about Gattis as well. When things are clicking, I have little question Gattis will be successful as an OC. But what happens when they are consistently stalling, multiple 3 and outs, nothing seems to be working. What happens when a key player starts losing some confidence, defense throws a curve ball, etc. How Harbaugh manages that (and doesn't micro-manage the other stuff) I think will define Michigan's season on offense.
Always respect your opinions, thanks for replying. I don't see the similarity between Day and Howard though, can you expand on that? I see Howard as being 1) high profile alum, 2) pro credibility as a player in terms of playing the game, 3) pro credibility with other players and coaches and how they view him, and 4) personality/motivation guy, someone that people just love. I don't see scheme being a strength, but no one really knows yet. Day is a scheme guy, and none of the rest applies to him.
Agree on Gattis and that similarity with reaction to adversity. There's a big difference between head coach and OC in this respect though. Harbaugh will need to be hands off the offense, but if Gattis is struggling he can step in and help. He can shield Gattis if needed, or praise or credit or whatever is needed. Day is the guy, there's no one to help. And his record is not nearly sufficient to indicate he's qualified for a job like OSU. They've seen him for a few years, so they think they see it despite that, and they may be right. But even they don't know yet.
My main point of comparing Howard and Day was the idea of: "Don't try to replace a legend with a clone and expect it to work out the same." If Michigan just went out and tried to hire a Beilein re-tread, likely you would see a slow degrading of the quality of Michigan basketball. Same if OSU went out and hired a standard Meyer clone.
You can't just try to replicate the success of someone else and expect similar success to continue. You have to look for upside of something at least a little different and let them do their thing. That was my only point.
Day appears to be running things (day-to-day operations) exactly as Meyer did, so an attempted "cloning" of Meyer by Day might not be too far off. However, he is not Meyer and so the chances that he's as good or better are slim.
To me, OSU's season really hinges on Justin Fields. The issue for OSU is that Fields is most dangerous when threatening with his legs, yet the QB depth behind him is atrocious. So how can OSU risk letting Fields "go" to take all those B1G hits and build an offense around his running skills when the guy behind him is a statue ? If Fields gets dinged-up or gun-shy, OSU's season could be a bust as their defense isn't good enough to carry the team.
I agree that Fields will be a big part of whether OSU succeeds (or not) and I could be in the minority here, but think their defense will have more of an impact. That was Day's offense last year that put up all kinds of record numbers - not Urban's. Of course, he's also missing one of the top QBs in B1G history and replacing him with a QB (Fields) who, although very talented, has very little CF experience. But that offense will still be dynamic - that's Day's strength.
The OSU defense, on the other hand, was simply horrible and set a few all-time negative records. I believe I read where they gave up over an average of 25 points per game. That's just crazy. Day replaced the whole defensive staff (except Larry Johnson). Another defensive output like that in 2019 and it could be a very long season for OSU. They have no choice but to improve or face the wrath of the insane OSU fan base in Day's 1st year. Could be very interesting.
I think Day will be a fine coach, but at Meyer's last stop (UF) he left behind a program that, while successful on the field, was apparently such a clusterfuck off it that the new coach basically had to kick a bunch of guys off. Of course, Day has been there and probably won't have as much trouble integrating with the current regime, but he's still only been at OSU for about 2 years and I could see there being some friction when he tries to employ his actual policies and not just carry on the existing ones in the interim capacity.
I'm really interested to see how OSU's defense looks. They were so up-and-down last year and now they've got new coordinators with, um, bumpy track records and they don't have a first-round QB (most likely) keeping the offense humming along and keeping the game close. It'll be interesting to see how OSU looks if Fields is just fine at QB and they have to lean on a defense that lost a couple of playmakers and, again, has new people at the helm.
August 7th, 2019 at 12:54 PM ^
Meyer wasn't allowed to coach at practice until after their first game last year. Day was in charge for their fall camp, useful experience now.
You make plenty of good points, and logically, you're right. But I tend to think that OSU won't skip a beat (at least on offense) because:
1) Day is the same guy who was calling the plays against Michigan. Meyer probably had a little bit of input, but Day is who drew up the gameplan that disemboweled Michigan last year. So it stands to reason that the offensive production will largely remain the same. Especially if Fields lives up to his potential.
2) Talent level. They have more talent on their roster than anyone in the conference. In some cases, hilariously more.
3) Its OSU. Somehow everything always works out for them. Tressel gets booted and then Meyer just falls right into their lap. Braxton Miller gets hit so hard he has to be taken straight to the hospital. Lo and behold, he's back playing the next week as if nothing ever happened when anyone else would've been sidelined for weeks or even the rest of the year. They get pushed down to a 3rd string QB and coast their way to a national championship in the process. Nothing bad ever happens to them.
If this was any other program, I'd say they would experience a dip in production after a guy like Meyer leaves. But its OSU. So knowing their luck, Ryan Day will be a combination of Sean McVay and Bill Belichek. Its just easier for me to accept that possibility going into all of this.
1) very true. But remember Indiana showed OSU the way the week before, in terms of crossing route death (though several teams had success with it during the year, Indy really worked it), and doubling our DE's and leaving the DT's 1-on-1 on passing downs. Day found Watson and murdered him, so big props for that, and added the crossing route come-back tweak. But this was with NFL WR's, a first round NFL QB, and an experienced OL. Does that all click with a RS freshman QB, good-but-not-last-year good WRs, and a new OL? Pep Hamilton (with help from Harbaugh I'm sure) owned OSU in 2017, the game plan was brilliant. Only O'Korn could have submarined it and he did. Some times you get the bear, sometimes it gets you. Is Day that brilliant all the time? We'll see, but we don't know.
2) conceded... on a macro basis, but Michigan may have better raw talent this year.
3) the ghost of John Cooper reminds you that these fortunes can swing
One more item on OSU I've been itching to mention but doesn't deserve a separate entry. The HTTV article on OSU is written by an Eleven Warriors writer who's completely sunshine and roses on their outlook, and the mgoblog staff seem to generally agree. One of the points that writer made was bringing in Hafley/Mattison as a young guy/old guy (young, new ideas/established, proven) duo has a wonderful precedent in Day/Wilson on the offensive side, providing that as evidence that it will work. But I think a much, much better comparable is available at OSU on correct side of the ball, just last year: Alex Grinch/Greg Schiano. This was a young guy/old guy combo, with co-DC titles just like the new set up. By all accounts it was a disaster. Schiano took all the blame, and Grinch has sailed off to Oklahoma where everyone says he's a young genius. Why the hell didn't it work then? In other words, this set-up failed miserably just last year, why would you think it will work now, oh Eleven Warriors writer?
The larger point is that people seem to be dismissing - in just exactly this obvious way - the potential flaws on OSU's team this year. Sure they'll probably still be great. There's a lot of things suggesting they may not.
Indiana didn't give OSU the gameplan how to defeat Michigan defense. OSU already has crossing/mesh routes built into their offense since it's a staple of Ryan Day's offense and they have the athlete to pull it off against Michigan defense. Indiana pretty much strengthen OSU's gameplan that it was going to work and OSU staff knew Don Brown's adjustment/checks and countered from it. All in all, OSU was going to score on Michigan defense regardless of the result of Indiana offense vs Michigan defense.
That's really impossible for either of us to know. Yes OSU has crossing/mesh routes, but so does everybody else. They do stress it, but so does Indiana. The way they used it against Michigan, in my mind, was the blue print. But you could be correct. It's opinion vs. opinion.
The doubling of the DE's was an Indiana thing. Because a staple of Brown's defense is getting home before the QB gets it off, and when you don't blitz, forcing the offense to accept shorter routes (and narrower choices) because you think the might come. Completely erasing our DEs was an Indiana thing and a huge part of the game plan. Nothing works if your QB is on the ground.
OSU's offense heavily featured crossing/mesh routes and it was going to be used regardless of the Indiana game. They used it every single game and it's not impossible to know because you can see them utilizing all year long.
OSU OL held up really well that Michigan DL never got home at all and that was a huge factor.
Tressel got booted, then they had Luke Fickel for the interim year...that didn't go so well for them. We can hope Day's first year is somewhat rocky in a Fickelesque manner.
Luke Fickell was not ready to take over a P5 program and it showed. Fickell is better off going to a smaller school and work his way up. So far, Fickell has learned from his mistakes at OSU and he has Cincinnati playing well thus far. I expect Fickell to rise up to P5 school job where he's better equipped to deal with expectations and pressure of the job.
That leads to the obvious question of whether Day is ready to take over a program like OSU. Would any other high level program have hired either one of them? The main difference in their credentials is that Day has worked at many places and Fickell spent nearly all of his time at OSU.
I wonder how much being an interim hurt Fickell? OSU has given Day a better chance by showing more confidence in him.
True...this year they will likely be good, but in year 4 when it's solely Ryan Day's recruiting, what will they be? Unless Ryan Day is destined for greatness, i would imagine that he can't recruit at the same level that Urban did.
Unfortunately, they are top 5 in recruiting for 2020.
If he starts going 10-2 or 9-3 on a regular basis, and starts losing to us, they'll run him out of Columbus faster than shit through a goose.
August 7th, 2019 at 12:04 PM ^
I wish the MTSU game was tomorrow. Can hardly wait.
August 7th, 2019 at 12:11 PM ^
Is that the sequel to Can't Hardly Wait?
August 7th, 2019 at 12:19 PM ^
Never understood that title. Does “can’t hardly wait” mean the same thing as “can’t wait”? Seems like the hardly negates the can’t. Like “I can hardly move” basically means “I can’t move”.
Thus ends my critical thinking for the day.
August 7th, 2019 at 12:37 PM ^
Bo248 used it correctly. Your assessment is also accurate. +1 to both.
Thanks for the gramatical back-up, I’ve probably made many improper sentences structure comments on this esteemed literary vehicle in the past, none that were overly neg-worthy, so the occasional shout out is appreciated and noted.