Best piece yet wrt Sign Stealing investigation
Doing my best to follow the advice I gave myself in a recent Diary, I've been largely unplugged wrt the Sign stealing investigation. I have kept an eye out for people who I've found to be good and thoughtful writers, including Slate's Ben Mathis-Lilley.
Today I noticed (and apologies if this has already been linked to) he finally has weighed in on the whole affair and I must admit laughing as much as agreeing with it. He is an unabashed UM-stan (and even wrote a book about Harbaugh and UM football) but I found the piece to be largely neutral while at the same time acknowledging much of the ridiculousness of the whole thing.
Link here
November 2nd, 2023 at 2:00 PM ^
Pssst. Niels? Take your own advice.
November 2nd, 2023 at 2:24 PM ^
I know, right? My goal, which I think was realistic, was never to fully unplug but rather to be a bit like those guys in Chernobyl who would run out onto the roof of the reactor and shovel for like 30 seconds before running back inside.
As such, I've seen a lot but read few pieces about the whole thing unless they are summaries from people I've trusted in the past.
November 2nd, 2023 at 2:58 PM ^
I don’t think it’s unhealthy to occasionally read up on the news. It’s when you are checking things multiple times an hour and getting roped into discussions when it can mess with you.
I know this is your field so you know 1000x more than I do on the matter but it seems pretty logical and even healthy to check on news that’s important to you on occasion. Just not obsessively and not on social media
November 2nd, 2023 at 4:34 PM ^
I'm gald he did it. In this case, his link led me to THIS LINK in which I learned that there are even OSU fans who can actually read and think, and therefore conclude:
TL;DR
Athletics staff being at games, in person, of scheduled opponents is ILLEGAL
Paying or having non school athletics employees scout in person is LEGAL
Scouting unscheduled opponents is LEGAL
Recording sidelines, signs, or anything at all in games you aren't participating in is LEGAL
I know that's been up for a while, from the post date. But I hadn't seen a summation that clear from a source that opposed, so I'm glad to have read it.
November 2nd, 2023 at 5:28 PM ^
It also resulted in my reading the Defector series, which is pure gold.
If you haven't read it, register your email, and read them all in order. They are listed here in reverse order.
November 2nd, 2023 at 2:03 PM ^
can we just write out our abbreviations please. no one knows what 'wrt' stands for
November 2nd, 2023 at 2:06 PM ^
with regards to your comment, sfys!
November 2nd, 2023 at 2:06 PM ^
"with regard to"
November 2nd, 2023 at 2:30 PM ^
Or "with respect to"
November 2nd, 2023 at 2:07 PM ^
Hah! Sorry about that. That's what happens when you have a 10 min break btwn (I mean, "between") patients.
November 2nd, 2023 at 2:26 PM ^
Sorry, was referring to my inability to write in complete words but I see how it might read as some sort of flex.
November 2nd, 2023 at 2:35 PM ^
“Yup… had a couple minutes to check the ol’ mgoboard while the nurses retool the davinci for my next surgery… I’m not looking forward to it; guy has a doozy of an oligodendroglioma- fully involved. ANYHOO, that Ryan Day’s a real asshat, amirite my fellow Mgoblogians???”
November 2nd, 2023 at 3:32 PM ^
You use that time to wash your damn hands.
November 2nd, 2023 at 2:20 PM ^
wrt is a common abbreviation for "with regard to" across multiple disciplines. That's on you if you don't know that one.
November 2nd, 2023 at 2:22 PM ^
Cool people still use Re:
November 2nd, 2023 at 3:26 PM ^
"Reply".
November 2nd, 2023 at 4:24 PM ^
No, that one actually means “regarding”
November 2nd, 2023 at 3:00 PM ^
Bullshit. It's for lazy asses that can post two paragraphs in full with one abbreviation that makes no sense or best case ambiguous. That's on him.
November 2nd, 2023 at 3:05 PM ^
Is this guy just old, extremely self righteous, an assh*** or all of the above?
November 2nd, 2023 at 3:09 PM ^
Yes.
I mean, you saw the movie, right?
November 2nd, 2023 at 3:18 PM ^
I have not but I googled it as fast as he could Google “wrt”.
November 2nd, 2023 at 2:42 PM ^
Please do not apply for the recently opened sign stealing position
November 2nd, 2023 at 3:30 PM ^
no one knows what 'wrt' stands for
Incorrect.
November 2nd, 2023 at 3:34 PM ^
Laugh Out Loud!! In my opinion, "WRT" is probably top five most used abbreviations, and probably number one in work emails. Rolling on the floor laughing!
November 2nd, 2023 at 2:04 PM ^
Hi Ben. Wherever you are.
Links to mgoblog, internet raj, and an eleven warriors post in the article? We’re definitely all on the same boards.
November 2nd, 2023 at 2:07 PM ^
This whole thing is ridiculous. If you knew Michigan was doing something you had an issue with for over two years, your silence during that time makes you complicit in your own failures. The fact that someone (OSU) went to an outside firm to collect this info (possibly in illegal ways) shows that you don't care about fairness, but in getting even. If the conference, nor the NCAA cares about that, then the school needs to call both institutions out on that.
November 2nd, 2023 at 2:43 PM ^
How about a call to AD behind the scenes? Nope. I have to go hire a PI firm and collect evidence and start leaking little by little.
November 2nd, 2023 at 2:58 PM ^
This was never about justice and fair play. They all pay lip service to fair play, but what they really want is vengeance. A pound of flesh. Don't let due process ever get in the way of their feelings.
It is actually very alarming how many people value expediency over due process. Getting to the right answer is more important that getting to a quick or easy answer, but you would never know it to listen to the media on this issue. But you can bet that when it comes to their careers and lives, all of Michigan's detractors would sing a different tune.
November 2nd, 2023 at 3:02 PM ^
Assuming that OSU hired a PI firm to investigate this, and then to keep this on the top of the sports pages for weeks by dropping nuggets to different reporters each day,* then that's a new level in the rivalry but not illegal, and is complicated by the fact that Michigan is in fact, guilty.**
It's a cheap shot, but we left ourselves open to it.
* For the record, I absolutely do assume this.
** To be clear, we're guilty at the Stalions level, assuming we don't escape on some loophole. (And again, I assume we won't.) It remains to be seen how strong our compliance programs were and if anybody else knew.
November 2nd, 2023 at 6:16 PM ^
But it's something I feel is not being talked about enough.
If (and it's a big if still) we find out that it was a PI hired by people affiliated with OSU, and teh NCAA does nothing to address that as an issue, what's to stop schools from hiring PIs to dig up dirt on all their rivals in the future? To be honest that feels way dirtier than paying some people to go to opponent games and help you scout.
Of course, we have no idea who actually did it...it's all speculation. But it's an important nugget that is being overlooked by everyone because "Michigan cheated".
November 2nd, 2023 at 3:55 PM ^
How about a call to AD behind the scenes?
That would imply that they're genuinely concerned about this stuff. That's highly doubtful. The NCAA itself said in-person scouting offers only "minimal competitive advantage."
They're just trying to knock us down a peg, and since they haven't been able to do so on the field this apparently is Plan B.
November 2nd, 2023 at 2:15 PM ^
Slate is usually crap, but that was a nice read.
November 2nd, 2023 at 4:39 PM ^
This time, a football game is going to settle things once and for all.
Yep, last two years didn't happen. Need a justification for why a beat down is going to come again. High Street is going up in flames this year.
November 2nd, 2023 at 2:16 PM ^
Disagree. Bronxblue's Best and Worst diary is the best piece yet wrt Stealing investigation.
This Slate piece was fine for anyone who hasn't been living in the weeds of it for two weeks.
November 2nd, 2023 at 2:36 PM ^
I'm sure this is easier said than done, but Best and Worst should have its own spot on the blog. It's more than another diary. It ranks up there with UFRs and Seth's beard.
November 2nd, 2023 at 2:19 PM ^
Eh, this was fine, but he's still too credulous:
As far as taking philosophical lessons from sporting events, you could also argue that L’Affaire du Cheval makes Michigan’s 2021 and 2022 victories over Ohio State even more resonant. A tidy story about uplifting perseverance now bears an undercurrent of interpretative mystery—namely, to what extent Stalions’ extra tape contributed to the outcomes—and a lesson about the dangers of excessive self-congratulation.
Good lord, man. As Brian has hammered home: 2021 was "Hi! Hassan Haskins and Aidan Hutchinson are going to literally run over you, repeatedly" and 2022 was after they knew about Stalions. There's just no plausible argument that signs contributed anything to either of these victories.
November 2nd, 2023 at 2:32 PM ^
I can see how you would read it that way, but my take on it was more about him checking himself (and the book that he wrote about 2021 where the OSU game featured heavily iirc) than the actual facts of the story.
November 2nd, 2023 at 2:40 PM ^
Fair enough. I read that last paragraph with this sentence still in mind:
It seems at this point—although some online lawyers might disagree—that Michigan broke an NCAA rule, and enjoyed at least some part of its recent success as a result.
I've never been a fan of memoirs, so maybe this is just an aside to the navel-gazing.
November 2nd, 2023 at 2:43 PM ^
The online lawyers are right, darn it! Well, they're right unless Stallions was in fact on CMU's sideline, but that deserves a pass because it's so funny.
November 2nd, 2023 at 2:48 PM ^
Just want to put it out there that it is not proven it is him, yet.
November 2nd, 2023 at 2:30 PM ^
Didn't he write a few articles for mgoblog once?
Anyway all these coaches and ADs complaining to the Big Ten has me a little more worried today than I have been. If its going to be a 13 vs 1 situation, Michigan is not going to get a fair shake here.
Also saw a good point, if what Michigan did is really worth "a 20 point advantage" then all Buckeyes should be jumping at the chance to bet the house on OSU -14.
November 2nd, 2023 at 2:38 PM ^
Yeah but who are "all these?" Thamel (of course) failed to mention names, much less who they worked for. I've got a dollar that says all of his "sources" had a total of 3 (at most) distinct employers.
November 2nd, 2023 at 2:42 PM ^
Yeah who knows who it is. But more than Thamel is running with it now. I agree with most everyone that the Big Ten and the Pettiti dont want to do anything till the investigation concludes. And if this is just 3 schools then nothing will happen. But yeah I worry about if 13 AD's don't let this go for the next 4 weeks what happens.
November 2nd, 2023 at 2:49 PM ^
I don’t think this is true. I think other outlets are linking to Thamel and the just writing long articles that are say what he said.
November 2nd, 2023 at 2:47 PM ^
Is this something that actually happened, or are you just relying on ESPN?
November 2nd, 2023 at 2:52 PM ^
The athletic too. I mean who knows but are other coaches going to go to bat for Harbaugh? And how long is the commisioner going to keep saying "just wait for the investigation." Like in the grand scheme its better money wise for Michigan to be good, but these coaches on the hot seat don't give a damn if their school gets $500M or $1B in TV revenue. They care about getting off the hot seat by putting someone else on it.
November 2nd, 2023 at 3:11 PM ^
Hey, if Pettiti wants to lump himself in with fascists, dictators and totalitarian strongmen, then yeah, he could take action without providing any due process or investigation. But he will end up being enjoined by a court order (the players have no way to be made whole if it turns out there was no violation and they were prevented from playing in the game in which they earned a right to participate). Money damages don't replace the lost opportunity. So taking action only to be overruled by a court would look really bad for the B1G. And then all of those ADs and/or presidents had better be ready for their schools and staff to be put under the microscope. It would basically be a circular firing squad.
But idiotic behavior is nothing new for the B1G, so it is still possible.