NCAA Opens Investigation Into UM Scouting Opp and Stealing Signs
More than a rumor....ugh
October 19th, 2023 at 1:18 PM ^
Yeah this reads like two teams said "hey we think Michigan is stealing our signs, can you look into it."
NCAA said "Michigan we are formally looking into this"
We will have to wait for the evidence to come out before coming to conclusion. Seems like it would be pretty open and shut. Either Michigan sent staffers to attend games in person and there are pictures / ticket receipts, or they didn't.
October 19th, 2023 at 1:25 PM ^
I don't think it would be staffers or somebody at Michigan seriously screwed up. It's more likely "friends of the program" (guys that went to the games and told Harbaugh what the signs meant).
October 19th, 2023 at 1:36 PM ^
Yeah I mean if there is a photo of Jack Harbaugh attending a game in Bloomington earlier this year with binoculars and a notepad then we're probably in trouble.
The more I think about it though, I'm thinking that teams just have really basic offensive signs / playbooks that aren't that hard to decipher in game. No team on the schedule so far has had the same QB/OC Combo as they did in 2022. The closest is Minnesota with Kaliakmanis taking over for an injured Morgan and the TE and WR coaches getting promoted to Co-OCs.
Pretty much every opposing offense has had a very simplistic game plan.
October 19th, 2023 at 2:40 PM ^
But think of how stupid that is. Who gives a shit if Jack Harbaugh is there scouting an opponent? I mean talk about a completely arbitrary rule that has zero rationale in today's game.
October 19th, 2023 at 12:26 PM ^
Downvote me all you want but Harbaugh over the past two years has done a subpar job managing this program off the field.
October 19th, 2023 at 12:30 PM ^
Im downvoting you because there are very few examples of this. But you can think of yourself as a moralistic martyr if that makes you feel better.
October 19th, 2023 at 12:31 PM ^
The idiot is desperate for attention, and you gave.
I was hoping he'd finish the day with a flat zero, but people are very susceptible to clickbait.
October 19th, 2023 at 12:32 PM ^
Go blue!!!
October 19th, 2023 at 12:31 PM ^
1) bringing recruits on campus during a dead period, during COVID, then lying about it to the NCAA
2) refusing to suspend Mazi Smith for a game, when he was arrested in October
3) Matt Weiss fiasco, in which we still do not know what happened.
4) another NCAA violation.
October 19th, 2023 at 12:34 PM ^
this is peanuts. players and staff are literally dying at Georgia. Coaches are taking their rosters with them wholesale from one school to another.
This is the definition of pearl clutching, my friend.
October 19th, 2023 at 12:36 PM ^
Is it peanuts if it impacts Michigan’s ability to participate in post season play?
October 19th, 2023 at 12:40 PM ^
So as long as you are in the playoffs, your program has solid morals. Got it.
October 19th, 2023 at 1:04 PM ^
I don't necessarily agree with what he is saying about Harbaugh at this point, but I think his point is this could be a pretty major problem. Hardly ever will recruiting violations result in the forfeiture of games or post-season opportunities, but if they can prove that Michigan is actively breaking competitive rules and have done so this season this could torpedo the season.
Yeah, F the NCAA and all that, but this has the makings of a fairly serious issue. I especially don't like that "Michigan State was notified of the investigation earlier this week." The NCAA seems to be insinuating that teams that are playing Michigan right now are at a competitive disadvantage due to the alleged activity they are investigating.
I think this could be really bad.
October 19th, 2023 at 12:41 PM ^
This is about Michigan starting to live rent free in the minds of OSU, MSU, etc. They are starting to panic and looking for reasons on how we got so good so fast.
October 19th, 2023 at 12:37 PM ^
1. By numerous accounts it sounds like a number of programs had commits stop by campus during various dead periods, both during and around COVID, and nothing happened. But sure, ding him for that.
2. He let the legal process play out and it turned out to be basically nothing. So it's now a problem Harbaugh didn't suspect someone for something that turned out to not be a thing?
3. They fired the guy. If there's a lawsuit/termination process ongoing he's not going to be able, nor inclined to, speak about it. Don't really see how that's his fault.
4. An alleged violation that I guess we'll have to look into. Is surprising the NCAA seems way more interested in following up on this situation than, say, a football staffer driving drunk with some players and smashing a car, but who am I to question their biases.
Harbaugh hasn't been perfect but the biggest off-season issues with him are his continued overtures to the NFL and, I guess, Burgergate. That's basically it. Everything else you listed is just a very RCMB-framing of situations.
October 19th, 2023 at 12:43 PM ^
1) if he simply admitted to hosting during the dead period, he’d simply have a slap on the wrist. Coaches fave been fired for lying to the NCAA. It was an unnecessary distraction going into this season. We were lucky we were only playing JV teams this year.
2) You can still suspend someone for violations for team rules, keep it in house. He shouldn’t have been on that plane to Bloomington.
3) it’s an example of a staff member acting in poor manner and is a negative reflection on the school and program.
4) Harbaugh has nibbed at the NCAA on a continuous basis. No one disputes the NCAA are incredible hypocrites. However, Harbaugh is supposed to protect the program from unnecessary distractions.
October 19th, 2023 at 12:49 PM ^
These are all bizarre hills to die on. Like, troll-level pearl clutching.
October 19th, 2023 at 12:53 PM ^
Yeah, it’s almost as if you should hide your “grey area” practices better as well as not burn bridges with folks who can impact your success (NCAA)
October 19th, 2023 at 1:14 PM ^
October 19th, 2023 at 1:00 PM ^
1. The coaches who were fired wasn't because they lied nearly as much as the stuff they lied about. For example, Kevin Ollie got fired because he lied about players getting free training, meals, housing, money, etc. from a guy not associated with the program in Atlanta. This was a lunch with commits. The underlying violations were pretty severe.
2. Sure, but if we're going to get on a "you gotta suspend everyone who gets pulled over" then a lot of people are going to be suspended for stuff that ultimately turned out to be the equivalent of a speeding ticket/not having a license on you.
3. So...not Harbaugh's fault? A guy broke a rule and Harbaugh and the AD immediately fired him. We're getting into pre-cog crimes now?
4. Since we have no real information here we don't even know if this was an "unnecessary distraction" or something he had anything to do with.
So out of your 4 examples we've got, charitably, 1.5 real issues - lying about the breakfast and not suspending Smith because he got pulled over with a still-pending gun license. If it turns out Harbaugh or his staff ordered someone to go to games, video record the signs and then bring those recordings to him AND THEN also steal signs during games and send that info to his headset during a game he deserves to be taken to task for that. But otherwise this feels like you're just looking to stand on a mole hill and declare it a mountain of evidence, and as someone who has stood on said mole hills it usually looks bad in the end.
October 19th, 2023 at 1:29 PM ^
Jim Harbaugh is a devout catholic. I'm sure he forgot about the incident.
He is obviously appalled that he is being called a LIAR!
The fact that the NCAA made a big deal about this is beyond sad.
October 19th, 2023 at 2:39 PM ^
Lmao. You are either a a fucking idiot or a troll.
Just kidding, you are definitely both.
October 19th, 2023 at 3:48 PM ^
It's not at all surprising, just like the NFL punishing gambling more than a DUI isn't.
One involves the integrity of the competition itself, the other does not.
October 19th, 2023 at 1:37 PM ^
This is a very stupid comment. For about a hundred reasons.
October 19th, 2023 at 5:44 PM ^
Can we send this guy to oblivion please mods
October 19th, 2023 at 1:12 PM ^
Totally. Program is out of control. Buying cheeseburgers, scouting opponents, walking down a tunnel.
Throw the book at em!
October 19th, 2023 at 1:23 PM ^
It wasn’t a cheeseburger. It was about hosting recruiting during a dead period (all while a pandemic was going on) and then lying to the NCAA.
October 19th, 2023 at 1:26 PM ^
Allegedly lying to the NCAA. They have no evidence of lying; this was always a bluff.
October 19th, 2023 at 1:32 PM ^
Honest question: Has Harbaugh actually gone on record as saying he didn't host the recruits in question or has he deferred comment while saying he doesn't believe a rule has been broken. I'm not saying it's right either way but somebody who works for HR should be in tuned with these sorts of technicalities.
October 19th, 2023 at 1:57 PM ^
He took a couple committed recruits to lunch who showed up on campus unannounced during Covid. And the lying has never been proven - their words only. BFD.
October 19th, 2023 at 1:41 PM ^
It is uncanny how similar you are to the actual Toby Flenderson character. Surely this must be a schtick?
October 19th, 2023 at 2:22 PM ^
Needing a free trip to a South American country that starts with a B???
October 19th, 2023 at 3:06 PM ^
Sorry I don’t agree with Mgoboard commenters about this topic :(
October 19th, 2023 at 12:26 PM ^
Another opportunity for Warde to tell the NCAA to kick rocks, but he will likely bend over and take it from them yet again
October 19th, 2023 at 12:45 PM ^
You got it. B-O-H-I-C-A Warde baby.
October 19th, 2023 at 12:47 PM ^
Listen, there are plenty of reasons to criticize Warde, but his handling of the NCAA investigation(s) is not one of them. You remember what happened to USC back in 2010 when they thumbed their noses at the NCAA over Reggie Bush's condo? USC still hasn't fully recovered the sanctions they were hit with.
October 19th, 2023 at 1:16 PM ^
I think it took USC longer to recover from pat haden than it did from the ncaa
October 19th, 2023 at 12:27 PM ^
Prolly just trying to determine cheese or no cheese on burgers for post game catering?
(Getting a sense that Coach has a few detractors in the NCAA org chart)
October 19th, 2023 at 12:29 PM ^
"The allegation pertains to NCAA Bylaw 11.6.1, which reads: “Off-campus, in-person scouring of future opponents (in the same season) is prohibited,” sources say"
How is this illegal?
October 19th, 2023 at 12:31 PM ^
Because the by-law says it is.
October 19th, 2023 at 12:39 PM ^
Just like speeding is. Their is a rule in writing against it.
October 19th, 2023 at 12:45 PM ^
That is true, the question I meant to ask is why the hell is this illegal?
October 19th, 2023 at 12:55 PM ^
From the article:
In-person scouting was prohibited for almost all circumstances in 1994 as a cost-saving tool.
Other schools are poor and can't hire people and send them to games for this, so rich schools aren't allowed to either.
October 19th, 2023 at 1:29 PM ^
So, as long as any in-person scouts aren't on the official payroll, it's kosher? Seems like a bad rule.
October 19th, 2023 at 12:56 PM ^
Because it would benefit Michigan. It would also benefit all schools equally, but because Michigan is included in "all schools" it's illegal.
October 19th, 2023 at 12:57 PM ^
The article answers your question. The rule was put in place as a cost-saving measure. Teams would no longer pay for staff to attend games. They exchange video instead.