QB2? [Patrick Barron]

Fall Football Bits Delves Into Offensive Line Discussion Comment Count

Alex.Drain August 18th, 2023 at 9:00 AM

I've been meaning to do a fall football bits for some time, but the roar of rumors on the insider sites has been strangely quiet this season, especially compared to the past couple seasons. Only now is there enough information that I could reasonably cobble together one of these pieces, but it still feels a bit light. Is that a function of a team with few pressing questions or some other factor? Not really sure. Regardless, we do have just enough information to put one of these pieces together and there will hopefully be one more round before the season starts. [Note: this is the offense football bits, defense is this afternoon]

 

Quarterback

What we want to hear: JJ McCarthy has transformed into a deity in the flesh, reading defenses better than ever, his deep ball right on the money, and ready to elevate himself into legitimate Heisman conversation. Jack Tuttle and Davis Warren have been engaged in a fierce battle for the backup job where the winner would legitimately start at half the other schools in the conference, and even Alexi Orji and Jayden Denegal look ready to play. 

What we're hearing: Not much at all to be honest. Can't say it's surprising with a returning starter, but descriptions of McCarthy's play have been rather hard to find, with some focus on the backup spots. Most of what we've gotten on JJ ranges from the hyperbolic (Harbaugh labeling him "generational") to the mild, including details about his performance at last weekend's scrimmage. One source called it merely good ($), another used higher praise ($). Make of that what you want. Most of the other chatter about the squad's valiant starting QB has been about intangibles, leadership, that sort of thing. Nothing terribly interesting. 

As for the backup position, there's been mixed signals here. It's between Jack Tuttle and Davis Warren, with Warren getting the extra reps at the scrimmage. Some have interpreted that as an indication that he's the clear QB2 ($), but reports earlier in camp were more favorable to Tuttle ($). When Sherrone Moore did a press conference last week, he gave no indication when asked specifically about Tuttle. Beyond those two, Denegal got a quick shoutout in one scrimmage summary but otherwise has mostly been absent in chatter. JJ was effusive in his praise of both Denegal and Alex Orji at a press conference early in camp, but that's mostly run of the mill from someone in McCarthy's position. 

I would be remiss not to note the real chatter about Alex Orji, which is his potential acumen as a kick returner??? There were rumblings in insider reporting about a "special way to use Orji" that could not be divulged as if it were a state secret, only for Harbaugh to come out and say it himself publicly

"Also a secret plan for Alex Orji,” Harbaugh said. “Got a chance to be maybe one of the greatest kick returners of all time. Big 230-235 pound guy, so he just started doing it, we’ll see how it goes"

Harbaugh followed it up by pouring a bit of cold water in saying, "we have to improve in our kickoff return blocking before I would agree to have Alex Orji returning the kick", but certainly something to keep an eye on. 

What it means: McCarthy is The Guy and it's impossible to know how many strides he's made until we see him in regulation games, even if there was more buzz than there is. Tuttle and Warren are probably running close to even for QB2 but perhaps a tilt or lean towards Warren. Denegal praise is probably more obligatory than anything else, while the Orji kick returning chatter is 50% something that might actually work and 50% Something Crazy That Jim Wants To Try (remember when they lined up Dylan McCaffrey in the slot to catch a screen?). 

[AFTER THE JUMP: less glamorous positions]

 

Healthy!! [Bryan Fuller]

Running Back 

What we want to hear: Blake Corum is 100% healthy and hasn't missed a step from where he was in mid-November. Donovan Edwards has taken another step and is just as good. The RB3 spot is so talented that there are four different backs with a worthy claim for it, as depth is pouring out our ears. 

What we're hearing: Uhhhh, not a whole lot. Similar to QB, when you have two set and established starters, there isn't a lot of reason to have tons of buzz. What we have heard on Corum is positive, that he's playing without any limitations and feeling good. One insider said he was clearly better than Edwards in the scrimmage ($). On Edwards, Harbaugh noted that he's been working out with the punt return team, so that could be a possibility for him this season (Kalel Mullings was included in the category in players trying out that role too). Both Corum and Edwards have spoken to the media during camp but neither said much of anything interesting overall. 

Chatter about the reserve backs has been equally quiet to this point, with word that Kalel Mullings is practicing solely as an RB being the most interesting tidbit to this point. Clarity on the depth chart at RB is something I would definitely like to see discussed more moving forward, as I wish I had more to report here. Hopefully I will in the next update, but for now, I have to leave you in the dark (because I'm in the dark). 

What it means: Corum and Edwards are the top dogs, TBD until we hear more on the rest of the depth chart. 

 

[David Wilcomes]

Wide Receiver 

What we want to hear: Cornelius Johnson and Roman Wilson are making a jump to star caliber, while the young guns are ready to fill the shoes of Ronnie Bell. Tyler Morris and Darrius Clemons are pushing for legitimate playing time and even a few of the true freshman are poised to chip in. 

What we're hearing: The biggest piece of news has been an old classic, the emergence of "soft tissue ailments" (read: hamstring) in several of Michigan's receivers, which is rather typical as practices ramp up. Those issues kept a couple receivers out of the weekend scrimmage ($), and we also got news that Darrius Clemons is working through something, which Harbaugh confirmed publicly

Darrius Clemons, he's had a few nagging things but looking forward to—he was back at practice yesterday, working through something but hopefully this next two weeks leading up to game one and game two, he can get back in there and be really effective

The reports, be it from insiders or Harbaugh, have generally suggested that these injuries are not serious nor long-term, which is good news. With injury issues scattered across the depth chart, camp hype has fallen on two pass-catchers in particular, Roman Wilson and Tyler Morris. Chatter about Wilson was widespread after a strong scrimmage over the weekend ($), while Morris hype has been a theme throughout camp. As far back as only a couple days into camp we were hearing that Morris was asserting himself ($), something that picked up after JJ McCarthy met with the media and shouted out his ex-HS teammate:

"He’s gonna make a big name for himself this year. I have had that connection built since my sophomore year in high school. He's gonna do great things ... That’s a special connection to me, going back to like you said. Naz [Nazareth Academy], I used to call him Simba. I would be Mufasa. And stuff like that." 

Insiders responded to JJ's comments by doubling down on predictions of a breakout season for Morris ($) and he is clearly in line for a starting job. How do we know that? Harbaugh listed the depth chart going into camp at his presser this week: "Came into the camp with Roman, Cornelius Johnson and Tyler Morris being the top three". So far we haven't heard much from camp to change that. 

Lower on the depth chart, Harbaugh gave praise to the freshman receivers, Karmello English, Semaj Morgan, and Fred Moore, but given that they haven't shown up in any insider reporting, more than likely it's simply a customary nod from the coach to some players working hard in camp. Perhaps the most interesting line of Harbaugh's entire press conference was a mention of Cristian Dixon, a player we have seldom heard about since he arrived at Michigan two years ago. Harbaugh said that Dixon is "really asserting himself right now" and "he’s rising". Good to know that Dixon is alive, I suppose, but until he shows up in other reporting, I am inclined to chalk this one up as also a case of the coach acknowledging a player working hard, rather than a depth chart shakeup. 

What it means: Exactly what JH said, Roman Wilson, Cornelius Johnson, and Tyler Morris are your starters. More murky after that, some mix of Clemons, Peyton O'Leary (who we haven't heard much about after a loud spring), and the further-down-the-depth-chart receivers. 

 

[Bryan Fuller]

Tight End 

What we want to hear: Colston Loveland is on track to be the best Michigan TE of the Harbaugh era, AJ Barner is proving he was underrated at Indiana, Matthew Hibner is demonstrating that he could easily have been TE2 if Barner didn't transfer in, and one of Deakon Tonielli and Zack Marshall is already on the Loveland 2022 track. 

What we're hearing: Few positions on the entire team have been as quiet as tight end this training camp. I paged through dozens of articles from the various sites, writing down all the notes that I could find, and I got almost nothing on the reserve TEs and only milquetoast praise in public press conferences on the two starters. So, please enjoy these two sets of quotes from Sherrone Moore, on one Loveland and one on Barner. Here's Loveland: 

He could be the best one in the country. And I know there’s one down there down in Georgia who’s been extremely good. And he’s a phenomenal player. But just very excited to see where Colston is and his progress. What he’s done already in training camp, he’s already gotten bigger, he’s already gotten stronger. He’s already gotten faster. He understands where everything is in the offense now so you’re not spoon-feeding him everything. You’re throwing it all out to him and he gets it and just very excited to see him and where he goes

And Barner: 

Yeah, he’s been outstanding. First of all, he’s huge. He’s a giant human being. Phenomenal kid, phenomenal person, does everything right. But he’s been outstanding. Because when you’re on the edge and you’re blocking, Jaylen Harrell and Kris Jenkins and all those other guys, whoever’s out there, it’s like, you can hold up, it’s pretty impressive

The one piece of information I was able to find on the backup TEs was this line from a piece over at On3, using PHOTOGRAPHS as its main source ($): "(Marlin) Klein may be the biggest riser here, having been spotted running with the 1s in both photos and video of practice". I am unwilling to put any real stock in a report like that, but it's all I have to share with you. Come back next time for more information (hopefully)! 

What it means: The dearth of chatter is likely because there is nothing new to report on the depth chart from what was assumed previously. Loveland and Barner are the two starters, Max Bredeson factors in as a blocking TE, Matthew Hibner or Marlin Klein likely TE3, and then all the young guys after that. 

 

[Paul Sherman]

Offensive Line 

What we want to hear: JOEEEEEEE MOOOOOOOREEEEE THREE PEAT!!! Michigan has two elite offensive lines and is deeper than the Mariana's Trench at this position. Zak Zinter is conjuring memories of Quentin Nelson, the new tackles are seamlessly replacing Ryan Hayes, and the center battle is between two studs who should provide little drop-off from Olu Oluwatimi. 

What we're hearing: This will factor prominently in the defensive fall football bits (coming later today), but the biggest chatter recently with the OL is that they're getting beaten... by the defensive line. That was the biggest narrative coming out of the weekend scrimmage and reports following it were phrased in a manner of confirmation, that the DL besting the OL has been a theme of camp ($). Most reports included the caveat that the OL has been rotating heavily at tackle, so there hasn't been an opportunity to build chemistry with the 1's yet, which is important to point out. Still, this could be interpreted either as a triumphant achievement for the DL or a bad sign for the OL. I lean more towards the former. 

Among the 1's, guards are set (no shock) and the direction of the blowing winds at center seem to suggest that Drake Nugent is the favorite there ($). JJ McCarthy said publicly at his media availability that both Nugent and Greg Crippen are going to play regulation snaps, so that battle may not be settled in fall camp. Interestingly, despite the strong spring and a stellar spring game effort, Raheem Anderson has disappeared from discussion about the centers. Harbaugh stated that Nugent and Crippen were co-starters at center at B1G Media Day back in late July and since that point, the center battle has been exclusively between those two in all the insider reporting. 

Tackle is the focus of most insider chatter about fall camp at this point, a war between the two co-RTs from last season, Trente Jones and Karsen Barnhart, and the two transfers, LaDarius Henderson and Myles Hinton. The battles have been separate in camp, Henderson vs. Barnhart at LT and Hinton vs. Jones at RT. One report recently suggested that it's the transfers who are winning both battles ($), but that is far from set in stone. Harbaugh himself would be the first to refute that, with his effusive praise for Barnhart standing out at his press conference, where he called Barnhart the player having the best camp. Though Barnhart is working out at LT currently, Harbaugh noted that he could very easily move to RT, because his versatility is his feature: "Karsen's ability, his versatilty, he could play any position. He could play left, he could play right, he could play guard. Developing that same versatility with the other guys as well is a priority."

[Bryan Fuller]

Barnhart's rival at LT, LeDarius Henderson, has been the subject of some chatter recently, particularly as to why he has not taken firm command of the LT job when that's what he was recruited to Michigan to do ($). Some insiders have cited rust, since Henderson missed the spring and is moving back to tackle after having played G in his last season at ASU. Others have argued that he's still assimilating to his new team, and of course the opposite takes at the two poles circulate around: he's not that good or Barnhart is just that good. No clear explanation at this time, but Sherrone Moore did comment on Henderson at his media availability

Yeah, I think it is a process that (Henderson's) working through... It’s something that you’re gonna have your ups and downs and it’s gonna be something that you’re gonna have to just keep working out. But he’s definitely made a great transition to us, just being here in the summer and now I’m just excited to have him and excited where he’s at right now.

As for the other side of the line, there hasn't been much talk about Trente Jones, while Hinton has been the object of some buzz. I noted one prognostication that projects him to win the RT job, but chatter about him has circulated around. Regardless of who exits camp as the "starter" at either tackle spot, Harbaugh was very clear that the battle will extend into the season

I definitely think you're going to see the Michigan method in play at offensive tackle. There's two starters on the left, two starters on the right. Four starting tackles that we have. It'll go through camp, I envision starting two tackles the first game, two tackles the second game

Harbaugh evoked last year's QB battle as a template for the "Michigan method" he's describing in this quote. 

What it means: Zinter and Keegan are locked in ink as the starting guards. While they will give Crippen "a shot" to win the job at C, it seems pretty likely that Nugent is going to end up being the guy in the middle, even if it bleeds into the first few weeks of the season. Tackle, though, no idea. I think smart money still has Henderson winning the LT job, since that's what the program clearly had in mind, but that is much more murky than you'd have guessed before camp. And then what happens at RT? I think Hinton or Jones winning it, or Barnhart moving over to start at RT, are all roughly equally likely outcomes at this point in time. We shall see what the rest of fall camp has in store. 

Comments

Nickel

August 18th, 2023 at 10:22 AM ^

Quiet and settled is good with me.  Plus with the non-conference schedule being as weak as it is it's not like they need to worry too much about any of the close position battles. They can use those more or less as scrimmages to give the guys in close competition live reps and see who grades out better.

BuckeyeChuck

August 18th, 2023 at 10:33 AM ^

Detect any trends?

What we're hearing:

QB: Not much at all

RB: Uhhhh, not a whole lot.

WR: an old classic

TE: Few positions on the entire team have been as quiet  (...and that's saying something!)

 

So what you're saying is that there's not much new in the news.

njvictor

August 18th, 2023 at 10:51 AM ^

Just wanted to say thank you Alex for continuing to crank out content as Seth takes care of his family

The battles have been separate in camp, Henderson vs. Barnhart at LT and Hinton vs. Jones at RT. One report recently suggested that it's the transfers who are winning both battles 

To me, this is fantastic news. We know the floor we have with Barnhart and Jones. Henderson just got to campus and is adjusting and Hinton battling for the starting job means he's wayyy ahead of schedule. Not to mention I think Persi is a viable back up option at LT. That's a lot of depth and one way or another I think we should continue to be good to go at OL

PopeLando

August 18th, 2023 at 11:55 AM ^

The OL discussion makes me happy.

We’re FINALLY in a place where we have to ask “ok, which of these really good options is the BEST?”

Instead of “oh god how are we going to piece together a group that we can count on?!”

It wasn’t THAT long ago that anyone vaguely OL-shaped was trotted out there.

stephenrjking

August 18th, 2023 at 12:00 PM ^

Surprised that this was not mentioned, but one bit of meaningful chatter came from Donovan Edwards himself. The comment was kind of swallowed up by his invocation of Walter Payton and Barry Sanders, but he said something to the effect that he was doing a lot of work in the slot. 

It was a comment that I felt was a lot more important than some for-the-press woofing. Edwards as a slot option, with or without Corum on the field, is a huge deal. One that, of course, has been suggested on message boards for a couple of years now. But we know he has the skillset, and the packaging options are mouth-watering. 

Edit: Found the quote: "I’ll be the best slot receiver in the country if I was really mastering that craft, which I am this year."

Yes please. 

stephenrjking

August 18th, 2023 at 2:30 PM ^

Overstatement, IMO. First, because we don't know what level of effective he'll be at slot. We know he's an effective RB, but "effective slot" and "future NFL slot" are two different things. I suspect his versatility will be more important than just playing slot. People are too eager to change a guy's position, generally.

I do think that the ability to line up in either spot and be effective will make NFL teams salivate over him in a way that being a good fast RB will not. As an RB he might come through as a mid-round option. As an RB who is a dangerous and effective pass-catcher from multiple spots on the field? He'll get paid. 

Hemlock Philosopher

August 18th, 2023 at 12:09 PM ^

If I were a betting man... wait, I am... I'd have predicted that "milquetoast" first appeared in Opponent Watch as a descriptor of the first 6 games on our schedule... Good thing they didn't have odds on that. 

ak47

August 18th, 2023 at 12:51 PM ^

I wonder why you fall on the optimism side of the line debate? Our defensive ends may end up being good but the chances of them being truly elite are pretty low. On the flip side, what we’ve seen from Barnhart and jones has been very solid but not elite and the coaches went out and got transfers at those spots for a reason. It really feels like the transfers have also just been good and not great and Barnhart and Jones are the same extremely solid but lot elite level they were. This just feels more likely than Michigan defensive ends turning into ojabo and Hutchinson. 
 
If it’s the interior defensive line consistently winning over the guards that’s a different story and a very good sign for the defense.

To be clear, all of this is in the context of elite as regards to winning a national championship, both sides are clearly good enough to dominate most of the big ten schedule pretty clearly.

Kevin14

August 18th, 2023 at 1:03 PM ^

Yeah, I agree with this.  

RT was a little bit of a weakness of the line last year.  It's possible the transfers at LT and C are just getting up to speed and maybe not as good as we hoped.  If Barnhart starts at LT, that's a reason for concern, IMO.  

I'd much rather hear "Henderson is the LT and looks good" than the current reports.  Especially with losing Olu, there's a chance the OL is merely good/great as opposed to elite.

Champeen

August 18th, 2023 at 1:15 PM ^

Our ends were very highly rated recruits and now most are in their 3rd ish year.  Derrick Moore was a borderline 5* from some services and won MVP of his all star game.  I expect him to win the starting job and run with it sometime this season.  This take on our ends is very wrong IMO.

ak47

August 18th, 2023 at 1:38 PM ^

They were? Harrel was a middling 3 star, so was Stewart but obviously has shown something at the lower levels of college football. Moore was obviously elite and McGregor was before the injury. Like I said I’m not arguing they are bad and that there isn’t reason for hope. But I don’t know why the assumption is they have taken the proverbial leap over the idea that they’ve improved and our tackles are just ok and not great and our center isn’t as good at identifying the defenses and getting the line set.

stephenrjking

August 18th, 2023 at 2:33 PM ^

Don't take this the wrong way, ak47, but you're not exactly known for sunny optimism, and if your "voice of reason" pessimistic take is that the DEs are probably solid but not elite and the tackle position is probably solid and not elite, and it's all in the context of being elite enough to win a national title... that sounds to me like as close as I can get to enthusiasm. And not an unreasonable take. 

bronxblue

August 18th, 2023 at 1:05 PM ^

Sort of what I expected.  There hasn't been a lot of turnover save for the OL, and so there won't be a lot to talk about beyond "everything sorta going as planned".

The DL beating the OL feels about right; there's real talent up front and the OL has new starters at key spots.  It's probably still one of the best offensive lines in the country but the DL might be just as good.  A nice problem to have.

S.G. Rice

August 18th, 2023 at 1:27 PM ^

MOAR KIBBLE!  MOAR BITS!

Thanks for the update, even if there isn't much info out there to collect.  Going to take that as a positive sign, that this is a veteran team, all business, not too many positions unsettled. 

LFG.

kyeblue

August 18th, 2023 at 8:58 PM ^

Both Henderson and Hinton missed the spring ball, thus has practiced with the team for a little over two weeks. The OL is likely to be in a better shape at the opener and continues to progress as the season goes.

outsidethebox

August 19th, 2023 at 7:28 AM ^

It is nice to have some real football fodder to consider. The bottom line trends toward this team, in fact, being better than last year's. It is reasonable to believe that all the returning players will be better than they were last year-it would be unreasonable to believe otherwise. 

While I don't normally put too much stock in what a BTN crew has to say, that they seemed effusively stunned by the talent of both the OL and DL-it does say something. Every team, in my memory, who has won an NC has done so by winning up front. Lots of reason for optimism here.