February 3rd, 2022 at 12:15 PM ^
"This paper investigates the effect of winning, postseason play, and television appearances for football and basketball on first-year student enrollment demand over a 21-year period at a representative NCAA Division I institution. Empirical estimates confirm popular notions that winning on the football field, after traditional enrollment demand factors are controlled, does attract students. However, postseason play and television coverage have no significant effect. The results also suggest that sanctions imposed by the NCAA for rules violations reduce first-year student enrollment demand."
https://journals.humankinetics.com/view/journals/ssj/10/3/article-p286…
The paper is a bit old, but probably as or more relevant now. You're welcome...
February 3rd, 2022 at 12:16 PM ^
I believe it's had a pretty significant effect on Alabama's student applications.
February 3rd, 2022 at 12:32 PM ^
A coworker's daughter (same age as Miss Hatter) went to Alabama instead of MI because they offered her a full ride.
Smart kid, but I hope to hell her father hasn't seen her Instagram.
February 3rd, 2022 at 12:35 PM ^
Why you are you checking out your coworkers daughter's Instagram
February 3rd, 2022 at 2:18 PM ^
Because I'm a heterosexual.
February 3rd, 2022 at 12:57 PM ^
Pics or it didn't happen.
February 3rd, 2022 at 12:36 PM ^
Came here to post exactly that.
February 3rd, 2022 at 12:46 PM ^
The research on that is that it really doesn't. I mean it doesn't hurt, but its not the reason for growth. When teams have success in sports they see a slight bump, and it can make a name for a school who doesn't have one. But Alabama has poured a ton of money into scholarships and recruiting out of state kids, that is why their applications are up.
February 3rd, 2022 at 1:56 PM ^
Yes, Alabama is offering a ton of merit scholarships. But do you think they would have had that money without success in football, either based on merchandising deals or alumni contributions? Doubtful that the two aren't linked.
February 3rd, 2022 at 3:03 PM ^
The academic research in the field based on the data over 15-20 years says no.
At the very most, it's a minimal affect.
Bama has specifically targeted kids in the northeast and NYS specifically with recruiting efforts and tons of merit $$$. Hence the app increases and admit rate decreases.
Anecdotally, I have attended a few college fairs in (very) upstate NY as a UM Alum volunteer rep for the admissions office and Bama has been to several I have attended. No one else past Jersey out to Erie, PA was ever in attendance as I recall. Certainly not as consistently as Bama - very noticable
February 3rd, 2022 at 1:02 PM ^
Possibly has an effect, but not sure it's significant. For example, if I grew up an Auburn fan, I'm not applying to Bama. "Auburn provides a better education, the campus is nicer and convenient to home, I don't need my sport team to win everything so I can support them, etc." You can find the same reasoning in Sparty households that hate Michigan. Michigan winning the B1G is not going to mean diddly to a high school aged Sparty fan.
February 3rd, 2022 at 1:04 PM ^
if I grew up an Auburn fan, I'm not applying to Bama.
No, I don't mean that at all. What I've heard is that they now are getting far more out-of-state applications.
February 3rd, 2022 at 1:40 PM ^
Got it - those that are undecided about which college and never considered Bama now consider them because of the football success. Makes sense since "Alabama" get's mentioned more in the news cycle and the high school kids takes interest.
February 3rd, 2022 at 1:03 PM ^
I’m in Chicago and the number of young (20something) Alabama alums from well to do area families is pretty surprising.
The ones I’ve talked to about it say the sports experience definitely was a significant factor.
Above is is all anecdotal but the sports impact on applications and general donations is under appreciated and barely studied. Schools/conferences naturally don’t want that $$ value out there as they face scrutiny over player compensation.
February 3rd, 2022 at 12:16 PM ^
Should have the answer in a minute or two. I don't want to pay $24.95 for that journal article.
February 3rd, 2022 at 12:23 PM ^
Just read the conclusions in the Abstract and cite the paper liberally. That's all academics do anyway...
February 3rd, 2022 at 1:02 PM ^
Clearly this will get many citations as it scores high on the factors predicting the frequency of citations.
https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s11192-016-1889-2
February 3rd, 2022 at 1:15 PM ^
Only 85 citations in 29 years, sadly. And that's according to Google Scholar, which counts citations in conference papers presented at Arby's...
February 3rd, 2022 at 12:19 PM ^
A large one, it matters a lot to 17 year old boys, which is kind of sad to think that they let it impact their choice of school.
I was much more mature and picked my school based on where my new girl friend went, but I did marry her so it has worked out so far.
February 3rd, 2022 at 12:28 PM ^
Glad that worked out for you. My HS girlfriend, not so much.
February 3rd, 2022 at 12:58 PM ^
Don't worry, it's working out for Mrs. Hatter as we speak.
Lots of working out over here.
February 3rd, 2022 at 3:10 PM ^
Great. Made me laugh hysterically at work. Reminder not to read MGoMessageBoard at work.
February 3rd, 2022 at 12:23 PM ^
I'm pretty sure it doesn't enhance any university's reputation directly. I think the Heisman effect is real - applications go up because more people are aware of schools with successful sports, especially football and basketball. Historically, Notre Dame and the University of Chicago built their schools around successful sports programs (building "a university the football team can be proud of" is a real quote from a former president of Oklahoma). I think a fair number of post-Civil War land grant schools used the promise of physical fitness and very specifically college football as a way to convince the various state legislatures that having state universities was a good thing. But those are all examples from at least a century ago. These days I don't think it's really a thing for international prestige, and domestically i think it's a very indirect influence.
February 3rd, 2022 at 1:08 PM ^
The allure of a successful football team likely impacts an undecided LSA applicant more than it does someone looking for a specific degree. For example, I wouldn't pick MSU for Engineering, but I did pick Michigan. Now, if someone wanted to get a degree in packaging, East Lansing is the destination.
February 3rd, 2022 at 12:23 PM ^
I'm pretty sure MSU's applications went up quite a bit when they got good at football under Mork.
February 3rd, 2022 at 12:28 PM ^
Not to mention the average games viewed per year went from 1.0 to 1.01. Huge bump!
February 3rd, 2022 at 12:31 PM ^
A lesser academic institution. But a winning couch-burning program, maybe tops in the country. I am sure this brings in a ton of student applications
February 3rd, 2022 at 1:04 PM ^
You have to apply there? I thought you were just auto-enrolled on the basis of being of a certain age in the state of Michigan. Like the selective service system, but worse.
February 3rd, 2022 at 12:29 PM ^
What is a non-academic university?
February 3rd, 2022 at 12:32 PM ^
OSU, most SEC programs
February 3rd, 2022 at 12:32 PM ^
Is drawing more student applications necessary? Michigan's acceptance rate is already very low especially when compared to other state universities. I would want the best students applying. Are we going to draw off Ivy League applicants because we won some football games?
February 3rd, 2022 at 12:38 PM ^
If things are basically equal, why not choose a school that has an excellent sports program. It would enhance the whole experience I'm going to college. Just like having a bunch of good restaurants and other things to do in the city where the University is also enhances the experience. Are ivy league and Michigan students all that much a bunch of nerds that they don't like an enhanced experience of good Sports? I understand at this level of academic Excellence, a person chooses school basically for that. But if things are equal between schools, does having a excellent Sports program help sway some students?
February 3rd, 2022 at 12:51 PM ^
Certainly would for me.
Now some may not care about athletics and that's completely okay. But for me, if everything else was equal, great college town, great academic reputation, stuff to do, have the same "comfort level" at both places, then I personally take the school with the better sports teams. Because it provides another avenue of entertainment, one that is important to me, that the other school doesn't provide.
There isn't really a wrong answer in this situation. Just have to ask yourself what is most important.
February 3rd, 2022 at 1:11 PM ^
Michigan is a stellar university. It is not on par with the Ivies for the most part (certain programs/grad schools excluded).
February 3rd, 2022 at 12:47 PM ^
Direct enhancement, as far as the reputation of the university as a whole? Probably little to none at all. And internationally I doubt many care. Collegiate athletics really aren't a thing anywhere other than the US. At least not to the scale the US has made it. But there are definitely indirect effects.
Athletics are, at their core, entertainment. Winning provides good entertainment, and losing provides bad entertainment. Generally speaking, people want to be around good entertainment, and they want to know that wherever they go to school, there are great and plentiful options to occupy their fun time with. Winning is more fun to watch than losing, so having a winning football/basketball program is an indirect selling point for people to come to the university. Its usually not the reason (or it at least never should be unless you're committing to play for said programs), but it is a reason.
Winning teams generate more excitement, and that usually generates more people who want to come to that school. Basic Supply/Demand. If you have a good supply of winning and excitement, there will be a demand to come to Michigan to take it all in.
Increased application volume generally raises the profile of your student body, as you have more bandwidth with your admissions to select the best of the best to be enrolled. You also find situations where people are generally much more inclined to donate to the university when the teams are winning. More money in the university's pocket means more money for research purposes, campus facility upgrades, building renovations, scholarships, the whole nine yards.
February 3rd, 2022 at 1:43 PM ^
"Athletics are, at its core, entertainment." Initially, I was repulsed by this statement-a part of me still is. Upon further consideration, I am not sure how to categorize athletics. But I have, for some reason, never pondered this before. Personally, I so loved athletic competition. I most surely could have not cared less if there were spectators present. And while there is certainly a measure of individual pleasure involved that could be labelled "entertainment"...I think it is more and different than simply that-entertainment.
So, what about this statement?
February 3rd, 2022 at 3:07 PM ^
I guess I should've clarified. Its entertainment for the spectators like myself and most of us on this board. For the players, coaches, staff, and those who are directly involved with the game itself, then yes, absolutely its more than that.
I played sports growing up, but never high level competition. To me it was always just something fun to do with my friends, a way to get out of the house, and now that I'm merely a spectator, I view it as entertainment. That's just how I view it. When I tune in on Saturday afternoons to watch Michigan, I do it because its fun to watch. Its entertaining. Its a three hour distraction from the rest of my every day life.
Of course, everyone else has the right to feel differently. That's just how I've come to view it over the last few years. But that may be partially because I used to let myself get way too emotionally invested in the highs and lows of the game. At a certain point, somewhere between the 2015 MSU horror and The Spot in 2016, I decided I couldn't make that kind of investment anymore. Still love watching and spending my time doing so, but for me, at the end of the day its just entertainment now. A distraction on my long, slow march to the grave.
February 3rd, 2022 at 12:48 PM ^
So I live near FGCU which I'm sure most of you have never heard of. If you follow college basketball and march madness you'll remember FGCU was one of those Cinderella teams that went a lot further than projected and beat a few big names(Georgetown was one) back in 2013. Since I've lived in this area I remember reading college applications had skyrocketed and the requirements to get in were raised. FGCU (to those living here and went to highschool here) was the school that you went to if you didn't get into the bigger named Florida universities.
February 3rd, 2022 at 1:33 PM ^
Dunk City, baby!
They went on that run the year Beilein, Burke and Co. made the title game.
February 3rd, 2022 at 2:25 PM ^
Similar thing happened to Davidson when Steph Curry powered them to a tourney run.
I want to say there is a big impact on admissions when a lesser known school, or small college makes a name on a big stage. It gives prospective students a belief that if they attend a school like Davidson, or Bucknell or Colgate, they get to experience the same school spirit and March Madness usually reserved for the large universities.
February 3rd, 2022 at 12:49 PM ^
Personal experience:
Son was academically accomplished. He was considering a few Ivys to attend to enhance the initial push into his chosen field. Asked my opinion, it went something like this:
Michigan is a top 5 school in your chosen field, it's a top 10 or 20 school in athletics, and Ann Arbor is one of the great college towns. You will (continue to) be as cold in the winters as you are now. The tuition will be as high as some of the Ivys. I enjoyed my time there, let's visit.
We visited, he loved it, he applied, was admitted, excelled, graduated. Doing fine.
My take is: it definitely enhances. It definitely draws more good applicants.
February 3rd, 2022 at 12:56 PM ^
The only ever time I have heard of Michigan Football, before I got to the US, was when The Horror happened. So no, didn’t influenced me at all.
February 3rd, 2022 at 1:26 PM ^
It has more impact than you think.
Our daughter picked a lower ranked school (ASU Honors) with sports over a higher ranked school (UCSB with no football team). That also entered in to my decision to pick Michigan 4 decades ago (she also got in to Michigan).
Her full ride at ASU also made the decision easier.
February 3rd, 2022 at 1:37 PM ^
I hate to break this to you but everyone goes to ASU for the orgies.
February 3rd, 2022 at 2:00 PM ^
Trying to be funny, but when you're talking about someone's daughter, big fail.
February 3rd, 2022 at 11:52 PM ^
Unless it's your coworker's
February 3rd, 2022 at 1:34 PM ^
coach K is a huge reason why academically Duke is Duke
February 3rd, 2022 at 2:04 PM ^
Ask Siri.
February 3rd, 2022 at 2:19 PM ^
"It's kind of hard to rally around a math class."
-Bear Bryant