Harbaugh's Contract Situation
Pete Thamel recently wrote an article on Coach Harbaugh's contract.
"Harbaugh is the only Power Five coach with less than two years remaining on his contract. Few even have less than three. With a winning percentage and a reputation that should have earned him an extension long ago, Harbaugh instead is inexplicably headed toward the end of his contract."
What say you, does he/should he receive an extension, and why has he not received one already?
Link to article: https://www.yahoo.com/sports/in-contract-limbo-does-jim-harbaugh-need-to-justify-his-salary-235436731.html
October 14th, 2020 at 12:25 PM ^
Yeah. Is that not normal?
October 14th, 2020 at 12:32 PM ^
Sidebar. I laughed when I looked at your twitter exchange with MGrowOld and Wolverine Devotee a couple weeks ago. I think a lot on this site agree.
October 14th, 2020 at 12:41 PM ^
One of my personal growth goals this year is to exercise more self control and restraint when it comes to speaking/typing impulsively, since my reckless honesty (and generally misunderstood sarcasm) has gotten me in trouble in the past. Keeping certain thoughts to myself on this particular subject has been a huge challenge in that department.
October 14th, 2020 at 1:01 PM ^
Ahhh, Schlissel’s probably lucky Harbaugh doesn’t fire him.
October 14th, 2020 at 9:41 AM ^
Less than 2 yrs? Does that mean he counts the this year and he has 1yr and 3 months? If he wants to come back, he will. The ball is in his court, or on his field.
October 14th, 2020 at 11:27 AM ^
http://media.mlive.com/wolverines_impact/other/Harbaugh%20employment%20…
Here is his employment agreement. Not sure if it's the most recent one. Looks like it's up after the 2021 season.
October 14th, 2020 at 12:44 PM ^
Yes after 12/31/21 he can walk. But if he is in a bowl game, he may stay until after the bowl game is over. I hope the University will sign him through the next decade. Odds are he will beat OSU at least once during his new contract.
October 14th, 2020 at 9:42 AM ^
I have to wonder if contract price may be stalling things. Harbaugh was signed to one of the most lucrative coaching contracts around, and it still is an expensive deal. He may be the best coach for Michigan, but he has not delivered the results most people expected from a top five paid coach. If he thinks he deserves a big raise, and Ward thinks Michigan deserves a Big Ten championship first, not to mention a spot in the playoffs (like MSU had) at least once, I could see how negotiations might be difficult.
October 14th, 2020 at 9:58 AM ^
Don't know why you are being downvoted. The university is a business. The football team is also a business. Right now they are all losing money. Harbaugh is paid top 5 money, the ROI isn't there. If you guys stumble this year and lose a few games as well as lose to OSU, his seat is hot no matter what fans want to believe. You don't pay top 5 money to a coach to be the 3rd best team in the division for 6 years and not win big games. Especially when you are cutting staff left and right to soften the financial loss.
October 14th, 2020 at 10:18 AM ^
The ROI has been there. Donations have been up since he came on board. Also, the University definitely should not be run like a business. I thought we've learned our lesson about that kind of thing.
October 14th, 2020 at 11:16 AM ^
Donations will not continue with continuously paying top 5 money to not win anything of importance. People aren't tuning in every Saturday for disappointment. They aren't donating piles of cash to the football program because the coach is a nice guy and when the players leave they are nice guys as well. They are donating money to provide top notch facilities to entice big time athletes to come and bring the school back to prominence.
And the university is absolutely run like a business, otherwise they wouldn't be paying a freaking football coach close to $8M per year.
October 14th, 2020 at 12:26 PM ^
Don't know how you can the say the ROI is there. Harbaugh's teams average finish is ranked 18, yet he's paid in top 3 - 5?
October 14th, 2020 at 10:20 AM ^
Disagree. Even if you want to claim that it's just a business (I think there's more to it than just that) and look at ROI, then you don't look at wins and losses at all, you simply look at "extra" revenue or net income generated or not by Harbaugh. And if you compare him other coaches, realize that Michigan's football program (this year notwithstanding because of the pandemic) is indeed one of the top 5 revenue producing programs AND compared to his predecessors, the "extra" $3-4M has resulted in much greater revenues (ticket sales returned, etc.). It's funny that people say "it's a business" then look at wins and losses when the business thing that matters is profit. Harbaugh has absolutely been a "good deal" for Michigan.
October 14th, 2020 at 10:44 AM ^
I agree that, financially, Harbaugh's ROI has been fine. But, at some point, the failure to seriously compete for a conference championship is going to erode the financial ROI.
The quirkiness and novelty are already wearing off some. We used to revel in his post-game and Monday pressers. Remember when they were published word-for-word here, with pages of posted comments?
He inherited lowered expectations and patience as far as the on-field product due to what preceded him. In spite of the passage of time and the promise of good recruiting classes with eventual NFL players, the expectations have not increased much. Just as when he started, the team is still "a year or two away" from seriously challenging OSU.
Maybe it's the BPONE setting in early this year.
October 14th, 2020 at 11:13 AM ^
This. The ROI is seemingly there because the money is up. But a couple more mediocre seasons, playing for nothing of importance, sooner or later the money isn't going to come in droves. Also, if anyone isn't considering the bump in donations if the team were to win a B1G title, beat OSU, and play for a championship, they are not thinking down the road. Wins bring donors at big programs. Michigan fits that mold, big program, lots of history, a re-energized donor base due to big wins is real.
October 14th, 2020 at 11:20 AM ^
Wins and losses matter. Let's say Michigans performance over the past 50 years was similar to that of Indiana. You think they would be bringing in the money they do through the football program right now? No. People dump money into the football program so they can compete with the upper echelon. They don't pump money in because they think Harbaugh is a swell guy. They want to see Michigan playing on New Years and winning at the very least. They want to tune into the B1G Championship game and not watch OSU beat Wisconsin....again.
October 14th, 2020 at 12:25 PM ^
Sure. But if you are looking at forward-going ROI, also realize that there is a huge potential downside from a coaching change, much larger than the potential upside from a change. Jim is a high profile coach and the fact that he is a "Michigan Man" helps with alumni/donors. While the championships haven't been there so far, the program is humming along at probably 80-90% of its potential and I believe that Harbaugh is a competitive guy that wants to get that final 10% but faces some obstacles. In the years prior to Jim, the program was more like 30%. Any change would be a very risky gamble and not a good one IMO.
October 14th, 2020 at 12:07 PM ^
The program was still making millions and millions of dollars in profit even when Hoke was going 7-6 and 5-7.
If you think money/donations won't dip if we have nothing to show for it after 6 years you are not being realistic.
October 14th, 2020 at 12:16 PM ^
Those years were not far removed from Michigan playing in a Big Ten Title. They were not that far removed from when Michigan beat OSU regularly. Hope fades. Wins matter.
October 14th, 2020 at 10:00 AM ^
One could argue that the cost of the contract is high, but that was based on Harbaugh's reputation when hired as well as Michigan's significant revenue related to football. At this point, I don't think Harbaugh will be leaving unless it is his choice, and it's not likely that his pay will be decreased. Perhaps the AD could keep similar numbers but condition more of the total package on incentives - Big Ten Championship, playoffs, # of wins, etc. However, I don't think there is any chance that the AD conditions a contract renewal or extension on beating OSU this year, winning the big ten this year, or making the CFP.
October 14th, 2020 at 10:17 AM ^
That would be one way to go about it. It would be an ego hit to watch his actual salary taking a hit to be replaced with incentives to make his money back, but if he loves the school as much as fans seem to think, maybe he takes it.
I don't think they would tie in this year needing to hit those milestones. That would be unrealstic and unfair due to the current situation. Teams though to be playoff contenders are dropping left and right. You guys could make a run and end up in the playoffs, or you could be staring down .500, nobody knows. I think the hot seat comes in if you drop 3 or 4 games this year. Next weekend is big for Harbaugh (my opinion). Start the season with a loss to Minnesota, then having to play Wisconsin and PSU at home, OSU on the road....that would not create a lot of promise. That's where he is playing with a slippery slope. At that point, the trip to Indiana becomes an obstacle, because I think the only way Minnesota wins is if they take advantage of the back end of the defense.
We will see how this all shakes out this year. But I think even those that have blind optimism deep down know that Harbaugh is at the end of his rope if he isn't willing to take a major paycut, or doesn't perform up to the level of his pay.
October 14th, 2020 at 9:43 AM ^
I would guess that, from his standpoint, he's waiting for a B1G championship or playoff appearance, either this year or next, to re-up on the back of that.
I hope he achieves his aim.
October 14th, 2020 at 10:07 AM ^
avatar definitely not checking out, or are you one of those fancy types, referring to yourself in the third person?
October 14th, 2020 at 12:40 PM ^
My initials are JH, and I was at UMich in his era. And I just plain like the guy.
Not an alter-ego of any sort, but I do like how he thinks.
Both from a financial perspective and from a "let them re-up me at the moment that it is plainest just how much I deserve it" perspective, it seems to me consistent with his mindset.
October 14th, 2020 at 11:39 AM ^
There's no way he's waiting for something like that. This is well tread territory, but more than anyone, he knows how big the gap between OSU and Michigan is. Can't achieve either one of those without beating them first, and the chasm between the two programs has only grown in the last few years.
October 14th, 2020 at 1:03 PM ^
Why has this occurred? Because of the 4 team playoffs system. Unfortunately, Michigan was in their down years when the playoff system started and OSU was still a good team, so it was easy for them to take control of this conference and become a perennial playoff team and built themselves into one of the 3 super teams, which include Alabama and Clemson. The Playoffs need to be expanded so we are not stuck with the few elite teams gobbling up all the top talent.
October 14th, 2020 at 5:18 PM ^
I partially agree with this take. I do think the playoff has led to more talent going to Alabama-Clemson-Ohio State. If you're a top recruit and want to play on the biggest stage, go to one of those schools and you're all but guaranteed being in the CFP.
The part I don't agree with is that Harbaugh hasn't maximized the talent he's had to be competitive and beat the teams that aren't in the playoff. If he was going 12-1 every year, that would be one thing. But he's consistently shown he maxes out at 9-10 wins.
They've done a good job maximizing and developing talent on the defensive side of the ball, but its been abysmal on offense. Outside of the OL, they haven't found a single elite talent on offense in five seasons. Best offensive player has been what...Jake Butt?
October 14th, 2020 at 5:45 PM ^
I agree, the staff has not developed talent we are able to get, to their maximum potential. Most disappointing has been QB. I can understand your first season taking a transfer QB but I don't understand taking the last transfer, then developing the QBs you recruited. Another disappointment has been developing a star RB who would gain around 1500 yards each season. We have our RB committee but if we had one talented back, that back should be able to gain over 1000 yards every years.
October 14th, 2020 at 5:51 PM ^
Wasn't until I looked back on it, but its kinda mind-blowing they haven't found and developed a single good QB, WR, RB, or TE outside of Butt. Not a single player any defense has to be worried about.
October 14th, 2020 at 9:43 AM ^
So... the university still has well over a year to get it resolved. Not sure I would be worried that much just yet.
I would imagine negotiating high ticket coaching contracts are not exactly the highest priority during the pandemic and ensuing budget crises... and not necessarily good PR either.
October 14th, 2020 at 10:21 AM ^
Add to that, schools which make a big deal about signing X coach to X extension are needing to compensate for something. I.e. help their recruiting, program perception. coach ego, etc.
I don't think Michigan or Harbaugh feel the need to "use" his contract or the signing of an extension as a PR tool. It will get done and both Harbaugh and the school will move forward business as usual.
October 14th, 2020 at 9:45 AM ^
Probably not great to announce a huge extension when ADs are losing money during the pandemic. That plus the Anderson payouts looming, probably not the best time to discuss a new deal. I have no doubts that they will reach an agreement to keep Harbaugh here a while.
October 14th, 2020 at 9:55 AM ^
This is a predictable click-baity article/low-lying fruit for people looking for a cheap narrative. In one way, it is flattering, showing that Harbaugh Michigan are still very relevant on the national stage. Why would you give somebody a massive contract in the tens of millions of dollars range while employees in the athletic department are getting laid off and institutions of higher learning are financially tighter than ever? The lack of announcement is a good PR move. This article is essentially hot garbage.
October 14th, 2020 at 9:55 AM ^
Oh thank goodness this is talk of pay, 2020 got me thinking this was contacting COVID related, whew
October 14th, 2020 at 9:56 AM ^
Personally, I think it's a strange way to do business and somewhat irresponsible. The point stands - major college football programs don't wait this long to signal what the hell is coming next. Has been and will continue to be used against us on the recruiting trail.
October 14th, 2020 at 9:58 AM ^
WTF... Another hawt take to generate clicks when the author couldn't think of anything else to write about. There are no hard feelings within the AD, or the university at large, to preclude any such deal. He remains hugely popular among the fan base (save for a handful in the UNACCEPTABLE crowd, which will find everything UNACCEPTABLE). All of JH's contract/extensions with UM have come easily, quickly, and with agreement and warm acceptance from everyone involved - every time.
There is nothing here except an author looking for an easy click because he's too lazy to find anything else that's simple to write about and will generate so many of the coveted clicks.
October 14th, 2020 at 10:11 AM ^
"He remains hugely popular...."
Does he though? In his 5 seasons here, he's finished 3rd, 3rd, 4th, 2nd and 3rd in the division. For someone making top 3 money in the nation, finishing on average 3rd in your division doesn't seem great.
I'm on the fence about Harbaugh, the thing I miss most about him is that fiery personality we saw from him early on.
October 14th, 2020 at 10:22 AM ^
"Does he though?"
Ask yourself this - if Warde Manual came out and said he's firing/replacing JH because he hasn't won the division yet, would the general reaction be positive, negative, or uncaring? Personally, I think 'Michigan Nation' (as it were) would come out strongly demonstrative that Manual must go.
"...the thing I miss most about him is that fiery personality we saw from him early on."
On this we agree!
October 14th, 2020 at 10:29 AM ^
i think it would depend on who they hire to replace him, but i would expect it to be a bad outcome for 97% of new hires
October 14th, 2020 at 11:21 AM ^
97%? There’s not a single (realistic) candidate out there that has the resume to really excite the fan base.
You want to fire Harbaugh for who? who is this mythical coach that is going to get us over the top and beat OSU and win the big ten?
October 14th, 2020 at 1:06 PM ^
I'm not sure this frames the issue properly.
The excitement surrounding a prospective new hire would be driven more from potential rather than resume, for two reasons: 1) Harbaugh had both and hasn't moved the competitive needle, and 2) you'd be looking for a resume that doesn't exist (unless it's Lincoln Riley), because the guys with the resumes (Saban, Dabo, Day, Meyer) aren't coming here.
If Harbaugh goes 5-3, with another loss to OSU, there's no doubt in my mind that a majority of the fan base would be perfectly fine with the school making a move.
October 14th, 2020 at 1:50 PM ^
Throwing Day in with guys who have won multiple national championships is premature.
October 14th, 2020 at 3:18 PM ^
i guess my made up 97% number was referencing the also made up 3% chance we get an unrealistic candidate
October 14th, 2020 at 10:34 AM ^
Manual Manuel?
October 14th, 2020 at 10:56 AM ^
HAA!!! The sad thing here is that I'm not sure if 'autocorrect' didn't live up to its name, or if I just jacked it up! Either is possible...
October 14th, 2020 at 11:38 AM ^
Michigan plays in a tough division. I think we all expected to be competing with OSU for Big Ten titles by now, but finishing just behind OSU and PSU is still playing at a high level. If we were to fire Harbaugh and hire someone else, it's a gamble. Right now Harbaugh's coaching at a very good, but not nationally elite, level. If we hire someone else, there's a lot more room to fall below Harbaugh's level than there is to rise above him.
I'm not saying I'm completely happy with the results, but I am saying it could be much worse. Firing Harbaugh opens up the possibility for improvement, but it also opens up the much bigger possibility for regression. My personal opinion is that that's not a risk I'm willing to take right now, but I understand how others can feel differently.
October 14th, 2020 at 10:07 AM ^
They need to sign him to one of those open-ended, rolling 5-year deals that automatically extends at a pre-determined increase. I would hope and do believe that both the Michigan athletic department and Coach Harbaugh have enough respect for each other to treat each other fairly.
October 14th, 2020 at 10:08 AM ^
He’s done when it is done
October 14th, 2020 at 10:35 AM ^
Done-done or done-done-done?