Former Gopher Players are Claiming Fleck Runs an Abusive Program
Sorry, I can’t get my copy and paste feature to work in the text if the article.
A quick summary, three former player from his first recruiting class are claiming Fleck runs abusing practices. Two of them had their careers end with injury and one got so anxious about the idea of practice that he would wake up and throw up every morning and lost 50 pounds at which time he was asked to leave.
All three players haven’t heard from the program at all since they left.
This article gives a good summary:
"On Tuesday night, a Michigan spokesman told the Free Press that St-Juste was not medically cleared to compete at Michigan."
"To clarify things on my situation, I never retired from playing football," St-Juste went on to write. "I had no power in that decision so stay tuned to my next announcement this week."
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To me, this was an obvious situation of what Michigan perceived to be a marginal player with chronic medical problems so they were ready to move on. Hindsight, it didn't turn out very well.
Seems like a leap to go from the facts (player not medically cleared to compete) to your opinion (processing of a marginal player).
If a player that had not been a starter at OSU or Alabama was told they were not medically cleared by their doctors, transferred to another college in the same conference, became a starter and then second day NFL draft pick, what would you call it?
I get that no two doctors are going to see everything the exact same way, but why would the WFT draft a guy in the 3rd round with chronic medical problems?
the point is that there's no confirmation & we dont have any details as to why BSJ was forced to medically retire, only speculation.
Under Harbaugh it's been alleged multiple times if you don't play through injuries you get put in the dog house.
Not buying that St. Juste was processed. He played in 12 games as a true freshman and all the chatter was that the coaching staff was high on him down the road. Doesn't sound like the kind of player you process.
Well, the fact that the NFL drafted him quite high, implies that the medical condition is a non-issue... if it were he'd have gone day 3 if at all. I'm not implying we processed him.
You're right, he did play quite a bit in 2017. Then he took a redshirt, presumably for medical reasons, in 2018. Michigan said he wasn't medically cleared to play sometime around May of 2019. Yet, by August of that year, he was ready for fall camp with Minnesota and managed to play in every game that year, starting 9 of them. That's a pretty amazing recovery for a guy Michigan wouldn't clear to play.
It is possible that St. Juste was processed. We don't have any insiders saying one way or the other. If someone with inside knowledge told us he was processed, okay, I'd believe it. But without that information it seems weird to make that jump that the coaches here didn't want him. They played him a lot and talked him up a lot, and not just in public. Reports from inside the program were that the coaches loved him. We've seen the hoops our admissions department makes transfer students go through to transfer credits, why is it such a leap to think that our doctors might also be overly careful and conservative when clearing a player medically?
This idea that St. Juste was processed is one that has been repeated ad nauseam for the last couple of years, mostly as a way to pile on the Michigan football is a dumpster fire theme. (Not saying that's what your doing here, but a large amount of MGoBlog posters have done that). The implication is that Harbaugh and his staff are bad at identifying talent. There are many things to criticize this program for, but identifying talent is not it. Josh Uche, Kwity Paye, Devin Bush, etc. and just the total number of draft picks under Harbaugh show that finding talent is not the problem. I wish posters here would rip on the program for things that actually are a problem such as retaining talent and for not getting playmakers involved in our offense, and not try to find problems in things that have been a positive.
I do think you make a valid point that none of us really have an idea where the truth lies- It certainly is possible Michigan's doctor's advised him to end his career or told the coaches he would never be anything close to 100% before his eligibility expired. If I was told by someone in the know that's what happened, I would accept it.
I am not saying this try to and point out Michigan is a dumpster fire because every school in the country (including Michigan) is going to process people out. That doesn't make it 'right' but lots of things involving college sports aren't 'right'.
This situation is just bizarre because BSJ went, in the span of about 90 days, from being told he was not medically cleared at Michigan to being good enough to play in Minnesota's opening game and every game that season. I think the optics of this from our side would be a lot better if he had gone to Minnesota and sat out the 2019 season before resuming his career in 2020. If so, then you could point out he sat out two full seasons consecutively and Michigan was certainly correct to not clear him. It's really more of the timing that raises an eyebrow for me, more so than the act itself.
I agree that it is a weird situation, and hopefully someday we get some inside info. Maybe now that he just got drafted, a WFT reporter will do a profile piece on BSJ and actually ask him what happened with his health there. It has been weirdly hush hush.
Anyways, I appreciate your input, and thank you for keeping this conversation civil.
St-Juste was medically cleared by an independent doctor in Indiana before he committed to Minnesota.
Kinda interesting to me that St Juste wasn't medically cleared to play at Michigan and then went to play for this same Minnesota program that apparently has no qualms about making you play hurt.
I understand he's headed to the NFL now and seems to have been healthy enough throughout his career. Still... Interesting.
Maybe he was McCaffrey-ed.
Sounds an awful lot like DJ Durkin at Maryland.
The narcissist who incorporates his stupid brand mantras where ever he goes and likes to maintain a polished verneer is secretly abusive?
I'm shocked /s
Same guy who talked all about how RTB was started with his wife and they went through, and then cheating on her just as the story was getting big.
Two things:
First, you kind of mischaracterized the article for headline purposes. The word "abuse", in any form, is only found once in the entire article, and ironically it was from a statement the university gave which said they would not allow an "abusive" situation to exist. I did not read the professor or any former player explicitly used that word to describe things, though I would agree it might be implied.
Secondly, every time a new coach comes into a program things get harder and tougher (usually) or the perception is that it has. Have you read any of the stories about Bo coming in and what happened? Or how mad the leftover Lloyd players were with Rich Rod? Or how Harbaugh made the team go through 4 hours of on field instruction (with DJ Durkin I might add) when he was hired? I really have no idea if Fleck is "abusive" but I can almost guarantee if you heard/read stories about coaching transitions on Michigan's end they probably wouldn't be overly glamorous.
Well maybe, but CJK5H....
Allegedly
I once talked to a father of a kid who was playing at WMU while Fleck was there and he had nothing nice to say about Fleck. I got the impression this guy was a pretty tough character as a dad so I don't get the idea that he was "sawft" -- as people like to say -- and was bothered by Fleck's intensity. He just genuinely disliked Fleck, thought he was a complete tool, and went out of his way to say so to someone who wasn't much more than a stranger to him. That spoke volumes to me.
I lived in Kalamazoo while Fleck was there and it was universally known around town that
a) He's pretty much a POS human being
b) He's great at motivating people and can win games as a head coach
c) See a)
Ahhh the fine aroma of Rosenberg/Free Press style reporting.
Exactly!
Lots of people the the comments dragging Fleck through the mud on this one; including dredging up dirt such as infidelity, all for a tabloid article.
Not to mention college kids these days aren't necessarily known for resilience, ability to overcome adversity, or their work ethic.
Hell, at my job, I have a college grad who has been with us for 9 months threatening to quit because he should have been promoted by now and gotten a 25% raise (apparently that's a thing from what they read on reddit).
Another college grad who has been with the company for 1.5 years regularly tells managers and above they don't know what you're doing. She does threatens people with "I'll just go above your head" all the time when she doesn't get what she wants.
Seeing what my managers go through kinda makes me give a leader (or even a head coach) the benefit of the doubt given a lack of facts.
That wouldn't fly here ... both would be fired within days.
That's my thought too.
But I'm a boomer right?
We're also a trying to emerge from startup (IPO was 2 years ago) into being a grown up company (thats why they brought me on board) and other than the expected resistance to change that most people go through, these college grads expect everything to be catered to them these days.
One of the people above told me on Friday that we should re-do the agenda for our weekly 1:1s and it should go to every other week because she doesn't need to talk to me that much.
Not to mention college kids these days aren't necessarily known for resilience, ability to overcome adversity, or their work ethic.
horseshit.
"Kids these days . . . " -- the classic line repeated generation after generation about how yesterday was better. Just get off my lawn with the idea of characterizing an entire generation based on a sample size of three. You might be better off examining your expectation setting and hiring approaches at your company.
Go check out /r/uofm sometime and see all the Zoom university too hard, I cannot handle school during COVID, why do I get so much homework (ummm, because you're going to the 22nd ranked university in the country fucktard), posts sometime.
Come on. That was literally about countable hours and stretching.
He seems like the kind...
But 2 years ago people were saying Fleck is a better coach then Harbaugh lol
Only one way to find out.
Row that boat
None of this is surprising to me, and shouldn't be to anyone who has paid attention to Fleck's meteoric and weird rise.
Paddle the canoe!!
Get in the water and carry that canoe above your heads!
A few years ago I struck up a convo with a lifeguard at my YMCA in the Kalamazoo area. He was a starting QB at WMU under PJ. He got injured in the first game, and when it was obvious that he wouldn't return that season PJ pulled his scholarship, which meant he had to drop out of college. They also didn't cover the medical expenses related to his injury. He told me that he was joining the Navy so he could get college paid for, and they would take care of his surgeries for his football injury.
I recognize that this is a one sided story, but it really made me hate Fleck.
So instead of “row the boat” Minnesota is going to go with “we keep you alive to serve this ship. Row well, and live”?
Hard practices and player discontent is not unique to Minnesota.
Not taking some time for the head coach to check in on players well being is bad form and too common in today’s programs. You see at every level and it’s not where I would want a son to play.