Formation with Both RBs?
I was wondering whether there's any formation where using both Haskins and Corum simultaneously could be effective. The idea would likely focus on the ability to get Corum into a favorable pass matchup without losing the threat of a run. I don't know enough about football to say whether there's any benefit to having capable RBs to either side of the QB (i.e. does this help stretch the D horizontally?) but if having Corum on the field forces an extra LB/S type to cover him as a receiver, I like his chances against those guys in the slot or in space.
It's probably too clever by half because why would you take Corum away from the backfield where he's been so good, but maybe there's a way to get the best players on the field in a creative way--even as a different look, for these tougher games coming up.
October 25th, 2021 at 2:30 PM ^
I think this is possibly coming later in the season. This was one of the keys of how the offensively challenged 2017 actually managed to move the ball in spurts against OSU, using both (I believe) Higdon and Evans at the same time. There was an article on it posted at some point, probably a Seth piece.
October 25th, 2021 at 2:31 PM ^
The pro-set was a staple of offenses for decades, but it has lost favor in over the last 20 years.
Pro Set Offense | Pro Set Football Plays | Football Tutorials (football-tutorials.com)
If you are running it with TB/FB there are more advantageous places to put the FB to get him an edge on blocking (even the I-Formation is better in this regard) and if you are running it with 2 HB you are sacrificing a blocker for an extra potential runner, so you are depending on misdirection instead of just blocking someone.
This season, Michigan prefers having extra TEs on the field acting as FB who block. Going with both Haskins and Corum together either removes a blocker or removes a WR who could be an RPO downfield threat.
October 25th, 2021 at 2:32 PM ^
They occasionally line up with both Corum and Edwards in the backfield. Both of those guys are receiving threats. And I believe Corum and Haskins have both lined up together a few times earlier in the season, but I don't recall.
The problem is that Haskins is not considered a receiving threat. You could do it, but nobody would worry about him running patterns, and he's not someone I would consider a legitimate lead blocker if you wanted to run an iso. So you don't have to respect much with both of them out there. With Edwards there are more things they can do.
October 25th, 2021 at 2:52 PM ^
On the Corum-Edwards plays, almost every time they send Corum out wide to force the LB(s) to chase him so there is more room for Edwards to run. Works ok as an occasional change of pace.
October 25th, 2021 at 2:32 PM ^
I think a wildcat with Haskins taking snaps with Corum in the backfield and Henning jet motioning in could be a legit triple option; or maybe some two back shotgun sets, but idk if haskins is enough of a receiving threat to make that worthwhile, probably better off using one back and having an extra blocker rather than both backs, especially if triple option isn't in the playbook.
October 25th, 2021 at 4:04 PM ^
Would be awesome to run inverted veer with Haskins at QB and Corum as RB but that's totally in theory. In practice we'd we'd be more likely to have a fumble during the exchange than break a big run.
October 25th, 2021 at 5:28 PM ^
Was just going to say this. Sounds great, but all I can see when I play it out in my head is a fumble.
October 25th, 2021 at 7:02 PM ^
I think we see Haskinscat yet this season. They did it last year, Jim loves that shit, feels like we just haven’t seen it yet because they’re “saving” the obvious thing they’ve done before.
October 25th, 2021 at 2:38 PM ^
Put Corum at QB and run the triple option with Haskins and Edwards.
October 25th, 2021 at 3:01 PM ^
Bring back the wishbone.
Or use the Mad Magician/Kansas city Chiefs play.
We should never lose a two point conversion with that formation.
October 25th, 2021 at 3:56 PM ^
Exactly my thought. Bring back the 'bone!
October 25th, 2021 at 4:52 PM ^
Time for the obligatory TWSS
October 25th, 2021 at 5:10 PM ^
Hopefully Frames Janklin does not read MGoBlog!
October 25th, 2021 at 5:49 PM ^
A wishbone with JJ at QB, HH at FB, and Corum and Edwards as the halfbacks would be interesting.
October 25th, 2021 at 2:39 PM ^
There is a very popular formation called the Wildcat which gained prominence in like 2008ish when the Miami Dolphins ran it heavily with Cadillac Williams and Ronnie Brown. The formation has its roots in college. I don't know that it makes a ton of sense for Michigan because it takes the threat of pass away and they don't need much help running the ball. If Michigan were that desperate for rushing yards, Cade could keep it for a change, or they could run some RPOs with Cade. My guess is those options would outperform a wildcat formation facing a stacked box.
October 25th, 2021 at 3:59 PM ^
We used to run wildcat fairly frequently with Haskins in seasons past (the ill-fated 4th down against OSU in 2019 in which he missed a cut into wide open space, the ill-fated goal line INT he threw against MSU last year), but have shelved it this year, probably because of some of those failures.
The irony is that we have so little threat of passing this year as it is, it would help to have 11 v 11 vs the usual 10 v 11 on a handoff when the defense is playing run all the way anyway. Yes, we're still paving but man, imagine one more blocker in there!
October 25th, 2021 at 4:14 PM ^
My favorite Michigan use of the wildcat was anything involving Peppers.
(it's not too soon, right?)
October 25th, 2021 at 7:22 PM ^
We’re still waiting for the magic surprise that destined to come from that.
October 25th, 2021 at 11:09 PM ^
Don’t like it, but you’re not wrong!
October 25th, 2021 at 6:59 PM ^
Not with Cade running it. JJ could make it an effective weapon. I'm waiting for the coaching staff to implement this more.
October 25th, 2021 at 2:42 PM ^
Corum has been in the slot on several plays already this season.
October 25th, 2021 at 4:32 PM ^
Jet Sweep Read where, depending on the defenses action, McNamara either gives it to Corum or has Haskins off tackle. It would be glorious. MSU guesses wrong and Corum has a TD.
October 25th, 2021 at 2:42 PM ^
I don’t think any of us will be too surprised if the staff has a few gadget plays that they’ve stashed in the back pocket for MSU or OSU.
October 25th, 2021 at 2:57 PM ^
I will be very surprised if the staff is actually holding stuff back.
6 years of evidence of what you see is what you get, 7 games into a season.
October 25th, 2021 at 4:01 PM ^
I don't think that's necessarily true. Broke out the flea flicker against Wisconsin. They might have some stuff up their sleeves for this game.
October 25th, 2021 at 6:00 PM ^
Also, in 2018, we were having the same discussion re: QB keepers with Shea Patterson and going nuts that he never kept it. Then we go to East Lansing and Shea kept the ball 3 or 4 times on 3rd downs and it worked like crazy.
I know we meme that Harbaugh never has stuff stored, but evidence actually shows he does. Hell, that 2017 game against Ohio State was wild. I don't know what exactly we saved but that offense did not operate that way the rest of the season
October 25th, 2021 at 5:51 PM ^
I don’t recall seeing them run the play action pass to the tight end at the goal line since Cade missed at the end of the first half against Rutgers. Expect to see that again in a big game, only next time Cade won’t miss.
October 25th, 2021 at 3:15 PM ^
Very very surprised. Fool me once shame on you, fool me 47 times shame on Mgoblog posters.
October 25th, 2021 at 3:39 PM ^
I appreciate your optimism as I'm still waiting for the Pepcat pass this year vs OSU. I still believe!!!
October 25th, 2021 at 3:42 PM ^
New meta-coaching strategies: stash your gadget / tendency-breaking plays multiple generations of OCs into the future to confuse even the most studious Defensive analysts.
October 25th, 2021 at 8:05 PM ^
Harbaugh is a fan of the long con.
October 25th, 2021 at 2:47 PM ^
The old pro set offers this-am kinda surprised Harbaugh doesn't insist upon incorporating/revisiting/including this look. And I am not saying this disparagingly. Michigan has a room full of excellent backs. We have a road-grading OL. We have a terrific power back and one that can make you miss in a phone booth and take it to the house. You get the WRs in, pretty much, one on one coverage with acres of space. It places the defense in great conflict.
October 25th, 2021 at 2:53 PM ^
I get what people are saying about having a second RB removes either a blocker (TE/FB) or WR, but I think you could do a few things with a Haskins/Corum package. Misdirection, option plays (i.e. the option to hand off to Haskins or pitch to Corum), plays that, like you said, split Corum out as a receiver while still maintaining a running threat. Yeah, it takes away a receiver, but is Corum any less dangerous as a short to intermediate route receiver than a guy like Sainristil? I could definitely see some value in that, allowing Corum to get the ball out in space.
October 25th, 2021 at 2:55 PM ^
If you are splitting the RB out as a receiver, it really isn't a 2-RB set anymore. Yes you have 2 RBs but Corum is effectively operating as a slot-receiver at that point.
Maybe you can catch the defense in the wrong package there, but once Corum goes in motion and splits-out, you have lost the threat of handing the ball off to him.
October 25th, 2021 at 3:45 PM ^
Maybe you can catch the defense in the wrong package there, but once Corum goes in motion and splits-out, you have lost the threat of handing the ball off to him.
Isn't that part of the point, trying to get advantages with packages? Like how a 2/3/4 TE package can create mismatches when the TEs are receiving threats, since you don't know if you're getting a 9 guys on the line vintage Harbaugh meat package or a 4 or 5 wide look with a bunch of giant receivers. Maybe teams would use the same personnel, but it doesn't seem crazy to think that they might switch a guy out if it's Haskins + Corum in the backfield vs. Haskins + a slot. And then you get a mismatch when Corum turns into a slot receiver.
Yes you have 2 RBs but Corum is effectively operating as a slot-receiver at that point.
Is Corum really a downgrade as a slot receiver? Maybe this group is different, but historically under Harbaugh the small fast guys (think Crawford, McDoom, Giles Jackson, etc.) have been better running the ball than catching it. Decent on end arounds until they become obvious to everyone in the stadium, but pretty lackluster as receivers. Roman Wilson is starting to come on, but Sainristil has been pretty inconsistent, I'm struggling to remember many if any AJ Henning catches (he typically gets end arounds), etc. Honestly don't think you lose much if anything with having Corum play slot from time to time.
October 26th, 2021 at 7:15 PM ^
Forum’s got 125 yards receiving to Sanristil’s 147, and 51 of Sanristil’s yards were on one play, so I’d say you’re quite right, Corum is no downgrade in the slot.
October 25th, 2021 at 2:55 PM ^
I would like to see it in a spot or two because both Corum and Haskins are both A+ blockers. But, not as good as the TEs.
October 25th, 2021 at 2:57 PM ^
Corum is good at picking up blitzers. As you mentioned, that is different than having him act like a FB/TE. Blitz pickup is about getting in the way and redirecting the guy charging at you. Run blocking is a lot more complex and much tougher if you are not an abnormally giant person or Ben Mason. :)
October 25th, 2021 at 3:19 PM ^
Haskins absolutely punished a DE on a chip in the NE game. As a former linebacker and complete Hoss, I think he knows how to block.
October 25th, 2021 at 3:04 PM ^
We could put Edwards in there too and run the triple option wishbone.
October 25th, 2021 at 3:09 PM ^
We should run this:
Fritz Crisler Describes the Spinner (1948) — MVictors.com - Michigan Football History
Check out the RPO at 0:47 of the Rose Bowl video.
October 25th, 2021 at 3:18 PM ^
We're getting great run blocking from our tight ends. Why mess with success.
October 25th, 2021 at 4:05 PM ^
Yeah, you can't hand it to two RBs at the same time so all you'd be doing is making one a blocker, which like, eh. We have a lot of good blockers.
Unless the second RB is Michael Barrett.....
October 25th, 2021 at 3:47 PM ^
Maybe we could try and use the QB as a runner sometimes.
October 25th, 2021 at 3:50 PM ^
Using a split backfield puts tremendous pressure on a defense horizontally - sweeps, passes in the flat, and misdirection with boot action from the quarterback. Both backs have to be able to block and it can be very effective as a change up formation.
October 25th, 2021 at 3:50 PM ^
Using a split backfield puts tremendous pressure on a decease horizontally - sweeps, passes in the flat, and misdirection with boot action from the quarterback. Both backs have to be able to block and it can be very effective as a change up formation.
October 25th, 2021 at 3:58 PM ^
we just dont throw to backs much (out of hte backfield) ... if we do, they are split out. BUT, i like what youre saying because if you use Corum as a decoy to push wide, it opens things up because presumably a LB has to go with him after the snap.
You know. like those 4th and 1s or 3rd and 1s when we put EVERYONE in the box and attempt to manbaw the crap out of people. I would much prefer to run the same play with 3 wide or 2 wide a TE and 2 RBs... the options seem limitless with those guys.
Bravo!
That said - i hope they dont introduce things that cause confusion and mess at this point in the season.
October 25th, 2021 at 4:04 PM ^
Just put them the Shotgun next to the QB, why overcomplicate it? All options are in the table in that configuration, handoff to either or Corum running a route out of the backfield.
October 25th, 2021 at 4:21 PM ^
Split back formation? Wonderful idea. Tight end left, run to the weak side right. Make Corum the lead back. Corum blocks the end (linebacker or defensive end depending on if the end flows with the motion) and releases down field after a 2 count, meanwhile Haskins runs wide and McNamara now has the option of 1. Throw to Corum 2. Pitch to Haskins, 3. QB keeper in a short yardage situation.
October 25th, 2021 at 4:39 PM ^
Back in the day you had the Pony Express with Eric Dickerson and Craig James in the SMU backfield. I'd like to see UM break it out. And put Roman Wilson, Sainristil and the guy from Illinois whose name I can never remember out there as well. Speed kills!