Detest Day, but the idolization of Urban is nonsense
It's been >20 minutes since yet another board post, so if anyone cares to chat...
The least articulated voice in the conversation about Ryan Day is that he is not playing the same teams Urban played against. For evidence the noise exists: RCMB was awash in the pro-Urban fantasy because "he beats Michigan." Evidence from the marginally more educated hoi polloi out of Ohio:
That's just one example out of dozens.
Everyone assumes Meyer would do better against M than Day is doing. No. Urban never had to play Michigan teams this good. Urban caught M in its worst down-cycle since the early '60s. Day actually has done an amazing job making this year's game competitive as opposed to the embarrassments he suffered the last two years. Harbaugh has created a juggernaut Urban never had to face, and Day has definitely reacted to the challenge.
Saturday's game was frighteningly close. Day and JH have both teams at Woody-Bo levels.
Yeah, Day probably tanked his own team with some stupid in-game decisions. But he brought a team that could and did compete. Idolizing Urban is silly. Urban fell into a great situation. Day has had to meet Harbaugh in Harbaugh's prime as a coach. Good luck, anyone.
November 27th, 2023 at 9:03 PM ^
People love a winner, seemingly no matter the means.
November 27th, 2023 at 9:04 PM ^
I loathe day, and I despise Urban. Basically, I abhor both, as I find them repugnant, despicable and odious.
November 27th, 2023 at 9:14 PM ^
Oh, absolutely hate both to the nth degree. Just denying the deification of Urban.
November 27th, 2023 at 9:44 PM ^
Stink, stank, stunk
November 27th, 2023 at 9:59 PM ^
You missed reject, execrate, detest, disrelish, animosity, revulsion....
November 28th, 2023 at 8:30 PM ^
Judy Garland in "Meet Me in St. Louis": If there's anything I hate, loathe, despise, and abominate, it's a bully." But i'd say we've been the bully the last three years.
November 28th, 2023 at 12:38 AM ^
Ok Bro. I'll bite.
I have never liked OSU from as far back as I can remember but as I grew older I had to learn to give respect where respect is due. As much as I don't like Ohio State, I respect the fact that Marvin Harrison Jr. is the best receiver in college football, hands down. As much as I hate to say it, Zeke Elliott was a generational talent in college and he proved it, so I respect his contribution to "The Game". As much as I hated Boston, I still believe that Byrd was the best white player I have ever seen play and he gets respect. As much as I didn't like MJ in his prime, He has my respect as the best to play the game in my lifetime (to this point) and probably ever.
As for Urban Meyer, he has been a winner almost everywhere he's been. I hated watching his teams beat us year in and year out, at a time when we lacked true consistency or an elite coach who could rebuild Michigan into the winning program i grew up watching. Once again I have a healthy respect for Meyer and what he has accomplished. I too would love to see him and Harb (now that he has built a winning program and has his sea legs), battle it out, year after year for the title, "King in the North".
The fact is, Harb has done more with less talent, if you trust the star rankings. Both are worthy of their reputations. Day, on the other hand was given the golden ticket and he is simply not on Harbs or Meyer's level as a coach and he wasn't even on Moore's level last Saturday. There's a reason he can't win the big games, even with the talent OSU attracts. It's because he's a fairly good coach but he's not elite and we will keep kicking the shit out of him until OSU gets tired and finds another truly successful coach like a Meyer, Saban, or a Harbaugh. 4real, 4real.
November 28th, 2023 at 6:00 AM ^
No need to qualify Bird's name with skin color. He's one of the top 7 or 8 players of all time. And yes I hate Boston.
November 28th, 2023 at 10:09 AM ^
SECONDED.
November 27th, 2023 at 9:05 PM ^
It would have been nice to see these Harbaugh teams vs. the Meyer OSU teams.
November 27th, 2023 at 9:09 PM ^
THAT might have been another 10 year war...
November 27th, 2023 at 9:34 PM ^
Instead we have to settle for a repeat of the Cooper years.
🤩
November 27th, 2023 at 9:45 PM ^
Cooper years were awesome. I picture every team as a hugger having Eddie George on it and Michigan Biakabatuking them.
November 28th, 2023 at 2:34 AM ^
Yes, they may have all been epic battles.
Day had no idea how to stop us in 2021 and 2022. He got off on the completely wrong foot by naming Coombs DC and that 2021 defense was a mess given the talent level. Meyer would have done better both games.
This year Knowles built a better defense and better understood how to defend Michigan. I don't think Urban would have made more than a marginal difference.
November 28th, 2023 at 5:39 AM ^
I agree, though that isn't Urban's MO. He builds a winner, then gets out when he see the end of winning approaching. He's really just a great consultant - leave before the results change, then you are never to blame.
November 27th, 2023 at 9:07 PM ^
If I am Ohio and Day leaves (he won't get fired, not this year) I try to hire either Kalen DeBoer or Dan Lanning.
November 27th, 2023 at 9:16 PM ^
What outsider would want to come coach OSU? Day has the highest winning percentage of all-time, and the fanbase is in a civil war over whether to fire him. If you have ties to Ohio State, maybe the possibility of glory is worth the pressure, but I can't imagine DeBoer or Lanning taking that job.
November 27th, 2023 at 9:22 PM ^
I mean I hate the OSU fanbase as much as the next guy but that's still one of the best jobs in the sport. Even before you get into OSU being able to more than double DeBoer's salary, etc.
November 27th, 2023 at 9:25 PM ^
It's a great job for an up and coming coach, but I truly don't think an established elite coach like Lanning or DeBoer would leave for it. And Washington and Oregon joining the Big Ten reduces OSU's financial advantage. With the new TV deal, pretty soon even the bottom-tier teams will be able to afford crazy salaries for their coaches
November 27th, 2023 at 11:30 PM ^
Lanning just signed an extension for 7MM/year. DeBoer is probably due for a raise. Oregon has Knight to fund what they need. I’m sure UW can find someone.
November 28th, 2023 at 7:55 AM ^
Washington and Oregon are getting around a 50% share of the media deal. They'll get a full share of the next deal that's still quite a few years off. OSU can throw a lot more money at a coach if they choose. And yes, maybe Indiana can too.
In case we needed a reminder of who held all the leverage in the expansion negotiations, it was the Big Ten.
November 27th, 2023 at 9:49 PM ^
Considering they are who I want if Harbaugh bounces for an NFL jerb in January, I hope neither go to OSU
November 27th, 2023 at 11:15 PM ^
I saw Lane Kiffin mentioned as someone OSU might think about targeting. That would be a logical choice for them.
November 27th, 2023 at 9:08 PM ^
Good point. Both Urban Meyer and Mark Dantonio make a nice living by being around when Michigan was in chaos. Genius coaches! They beat Michigan! Life isn't so sweet at Ohio or Staee these days. Big Brother is back.
November 27th, 2023 at 9:17 PM ^
We’re Big Daddy now
November 27th, 2023 at 9:17 PM ^
+1. Dantonio and Meyer both had the easiest route to idolization possible.
November 27th, 2023 at 10:30 PM ^
Agree that both (especially Mork) benefitted from Michigan being unable to get out of its own way for 7-8 years
However, in defense of Urban (yuck), he did have to face a much stronger MSU, a top 10-ish Wisconsin, an Iowa with a semi functional offense, and a McSorley/Barkley era Penn State.
Meanwhile Day is beating up on a Big 10 that is top heavy but has an immediate lack of depth -- he can skate to 10 wins on recruiting resources alone.
November 27th, 2023 at 9:19 PM ^
I'm also realizing that we (or at least I) got the little brother analogy a little bit wrong.
MSU have been as much been trying to "grow up and be OSU" as anything (Dantonio spent a fair amount of his twisted-character-building time in Columbus, after all).
They've been trying to hate as hard and achieve as much against Michigan as the Buckeyes, and supplant them as our main rivals.
And for both teams the hatred periodically consumes them to the point of self-harm. See: firing Earle Bruce (with a winning record against M) to hire John Cooper, and paying a mint for Mel after a flash-in-the-pan Kenneth Walker wonder win against Michigan.
Sweet has indeed turned sour to the south and west of Ann Arbor.
November 27th, 2023 at 9:58 PM ^
Don't forget both came around during the fall of Paterno era and chaos at Penn State as well. The last year's of Paterno, the short O'Brien era, and the first years of Franklin, were all very mediocre teams.
Dantonio, more than anyone, benefited from the void left by that era at Penn State and the Rich Rod/Hoke eras at Michigan.
November 27th, 2023 at 9:10 PM ^
LOL. That article lists Lane Kiffen as the #1 available option. If that's the "It's happening" story a segment of the OSU fan base end up telling themselves, wow.
I remember the coaching dream scenario fever dreams of the late Brandon/Hoke era, and wouldn't wish it on anyone ... but OSU and MSU.
November 27th, 2023 at 9:21 PM ^
Joey Freshwater in Columbus would be hilarious on many levels.
November 27th, 2023 at 9:41 PM ^
Ole Miss is about to win 10 games in the SEC for the 2nd year under Lane Kiffin and go to another NY6 Bowl games. Kiffin isn’t the most likable guy but he is in line for a vertical move.
November 27th, 2023 at 9:50 PM ^
Didn’t Kiffin coach at TN, USC and the Raiders when he was in his teens?
November 27th, 2023 at 9:11 PM ^
Urban fell into an SEC that was basically Florida and then everyone else. He did the same at OSU. At both stops he lost games he shouldn’t have to inferior opponents but always beat the rivals. He’s made teams good, but he isn’t a Saban (as a game day coach) by any stretch.
November 27th, 2023 at 10:26 PM ^
As evidenced by the fact that he tucked tail and ran from the SEC the moment Saban got rolling.
November 27th, 2023 at 9:11 PM ^
For some reason, Buckeyes forget that in that 7-0 record, Michigan was 1-2 plays from winning in 2012, 2013, 2016, and maybe 3-5 plays from winning in 2014 and 2017. For as much as Ryan Day’s offense ran circles around Don Brown, Urban almost lost to Brady Hoke’s 4 to 7 loss teams.
November 27th, 2023 at 9:21 PM ^
"Michigan was 1-2 plays from winning in 2012, 2013, 2016, and maybe 3-5 plays from winning in 2014 and 2017"
But let's be honest. We were 1-2 plays away from losing Saturday. The rivalry is right where it should be if it is a true "rivalry."
Maybe a good place for the tradition to end as we transition into next year's Big 10? (Yes, using the anachronism to name the conference)
November 27th, 2023 at 10:13 PM ^
Count me among the fans that would enjoy having the rivalry continue as a once a year thing, for exactly the logic you've described. It's so intense and dramatic.
Ohio was maddeningly close this year in much the same way Michigan was in '16. Urban's 7-0 record really was a handful of plays away from being 4-3 (or just better QB injury luck for Michigan -- don't we get at least one from that bastard if we have a fully healthy starter in '12, '13, '16 or '17? How improbable is it that we lost all four of those games, given how close each contest was?). It all makes it that much sweeter to be 3-0 post-pandemic.
It's also brutal for Day to be treated the way he is when one considers the full picture. His recent run of form against Michigan could be seen as the regression to the mean that Urban put off via Faustian bargain. Urban was great, but also fucking lucky. Michigan has been due.
November 27th, 2023 at 10:38 PM ^
We would have won at least 3 of those 4 games with a fully healthy QB. Hell, we would have won 2017 with any of the other Harbaugh era QB's not named John O'korn.
Meyer was lucky.
November 27th, 2023 at 9:41 PM ^
2017 was one play. Don't drop the easy INT in the 3Q up double digits.
November 28th, 2023 at 6:41 PM ^
Or there was that one horrific set of downs on the fourth quarter drive when Michigan had been moving the ball, looking for the go-ahead TD: Higdon cuts outside of a defensive back instead of running upfield and comes up just short of a first down; O'Korn falls on his ass on second down; O'Korn has a slant to Grant Perry open but throws behind him and the pass is batted down at the line; O'Korn throws late on a screen play that had been beautifully set-up for Evans and airmails him.
Then of course there is the legendary pick late in the fourth quarter (coming directly off a life-giving missed FG from the Buckeyes) when O'Korn heaved a prayer off his backfoot, though Crawford was sitting open behind the LB's and Gentry was breaking even more open.
So many failures of execution down the stretch in a game that was there for the taking, most attributable to the 3rd string QB. It is indescribely excellent that the script has flipped, needless to say.
November 27th, 2023 at 11:12 PM ^
This is why the point Klatt made in his recap is so important. The reaction of the team, and crowd, to those 1-2 plays can make all the difference. It's feelingsball, I know, but that kind of belief has a real effect when teams are closely matched.
And that's why the 2016 game eats at me to this day (though much less than it did) -- if we get that win, I truly think we get a couple more off Urban.
But whatever at this point. I'm just enjoying the present. Been thinking today about which of the three wins was the sweetest, and for me it's still the "O-ja-bo" game, because it was so cathartic, unexpected, and long overdue. But they're all intoxicating in their own way. Hex-breaker, Shoe-silencer and The Game to End All Games.
It's great to be a Michigan Wolverine.
November 27th, 2023 at 9:12 PM ^
If Grant Newsome didn't get hurt then Urban would have had two more losses. If Wilton Speight hadn't gotten injured then he wins one for Jim if Grant didn't.
Urban faced Michigan with a slew of injuries and other unfortunate events. Urban is a great coach and OSU has a great program but I don't think Urban would have made a difference unless he was there and brought in a running OC and a better O-line coach.
November 27th, 2023 at 9:16 PM ^
urban is a very good coach who cheated his tail off to maximize his chances. his 'legend' is like saban's, they were excellent cheaters.
when he got to the NFL where the playing field was level, much like saban, he was incredibly average or worse.
November 27th, 2023 at 9:24 PM ^
"... they were excellent cheaters."
Seriously. It doesn't seem like very much of a reach and it's amazing how few people even bother with the exercise.
One might ask how (e.g.) Kansas got so many good basketball players from Chicagoland over many years. It's the same for OSU in football. Recruiting differences of that size most likely involve some well-organized cheating.
November 27th, 2023 at 9:17 PM ^
The OSU fan base is hilariously delusional. Makes for some great fireside reading/bourbon sipping.
November 27th, 2023 at 9:23 PM ^
Bring back Urban.
We want blood.
November 27th, 2023 at 9:25 PM ^
Meyer won two national titles at Florida, so I won't knock his coaching ability. The bigger problem is that he is a horrible excuse for a human being.
As for this:
Day actually has done an amazing job making this year's game competitive as opposed to the embarrassments he suffered the last two years.
Don't forget that he faced us without our head coach. Moore did an amazing job under the circumstances, but this is Jim Harbaugh's team and it's not the same without him.
November 27th, 2023 at 9:44 PM ^
as great as sherrone did on saturday, and it was great, he still isn't as good as our literal hall of fame coach who was home watching the game on the big screen.
day got beat by an interim coach and there was no snow, no flu, no sign issues and no hall of fame coach on the other side.
November 27th, 2023 at 9:47 PM ^
Yup. Urbz is a very good coach. Not as good as the desperate OSU faithful imagine, but he is a hideous scumbag as a person. It's tragic that OSU and MSU fans lionize him and would bring hire him in a millisecond. I would rather not have a chode like that associated with my university.