It's officially time for us to shut the hell up. Shut up in the preseason. Shut up about "speed in space". Shut up about "but but but we would have beat Ohio State if not for the refs"... Guess what? We would have lost to army today if not for the refs absolutely gifting us on that PI in overtime.
It's time for us to shut up celebrating today like we just won the Natty.
It's time for us to shut up about "doing it the right way". Time for us to shut up about how many wins we had before the damn Titanic sank.
If you think this team is going into Wisconsin and coming out with a win, you can go ahead and shut up too.
No, army isn't just that good. They beat rice by 7. Shut up. If army doesn't throw a pick 5 yards from going up 21-7, we don't even make it to OT. Shut up.
We WILL lose at least 3 games, probably 4 this year. And if you think we're somehow still poised to make a national title run or even a B1G championship run, I think you know what to do...
Do you really think, in the year 2019, Justin Fields would have been denied immediate playing time ANYWHERE he transferred to after claiming racism directed towards him at UGA was the driving reason (at least officially). It doesn't matter if it was BS or legit. There is NO way that him landing at OSU instead of "Illinois" had anything to do with it. UGA didn't contest the transfer, and he was cleared.
And I'm sorry but anyone saying that Harbaugh has nothing to do with helping or preventing a player from being eligible immediately is not being honest with themselves or is simply not knowledgeable enough to be commenting on the subject.
"He and his family took a very serious issue as reasoning that he deserves to play immediately"...
There it is again. Outright accusing someone of lying about an issue as serious as mental health. Maybe he is. I don't know. I'm not James Hudson, or his family. But to sit there, as a FAN, completely removed from the situation other than our desire to always be the "good guys" and assume a kid is lying about this is EXACTLY what I'm talking about in regards to hypocrisy. And ANYONE outside of the Wolverine fandom will point to statements like that and identify it as victim shaming because people love controversy. Let's not pretend like we all weren't enjoying the hell out of what went down last year this time down in Columbus.
And in regards to Harbaugh having nothing to do with Hudson's eligibility. That is also not entirely true. The NCAA almost universally clears players transfer waivers when the school they transferred from has zero objections to it.
I hope this all blows over and no one decides to go full Brett McMurphy over this. The truth is, this has the potential to be extremely damaging. And at the very least, Harbaugh should have known better than to say what he said in such a way that it could be so easily manipulated. He's paid millions a year and should have chosen his words much much more carefully. Let's just hope that all this was is a case of poor communication and not an actual brewing controversy that we have to endure.
LOTS of Michigan fans here doing the exact same thing we spent months ridiculing OSU fans for last year. And that is throwing a victim under the bus for the sake of maintaining moral high ground as a fan base and program.
The video of Hudson's mother is NOT a good look, at all. Everything up to that point could have just been cast off as poor journalism/reporting. But the revelation of what was said in that meeting is troubling, and I'm disappointed in my fellow wolverine fans that are trying to sweep this under the rug without even considering the possibilitythat maybe Harbaugh and UM isn't as perfect as we all make him out to be. And you know what? That's ok that they're not perfect. We're all human, and ANY big time football program is going to come with it's own set of issues and controversies.
If Harbaugh handled this poorly in the past, I'm sure he will rectify that in the future and deserves to be given that chance. But to try to victim shame or spin things to fit our "Michigan football does it better" narrative is ridiculous and so incredibly hypocritical. UM football is no better (or worse) than any other football powerhouse, and we need to take this James hudson issue seriously.
Just so we're clear, what happened under Tressel had literally no effect on the field. Yes, Tressel lied to the NCAA, and the entire program paid a pretty hefty price considering the ridiculous nature of the original offense of players doing what they wanted with their own damn property. Losing bowl eligibility and having an entire season of wins vacated is a pretty steep penalty.
And really, that buy refs huh? God you look weak and unable to cope with reality. Literally every fanbase of every team that's ever lost a sporting event has a few retards who cry about corrupt refs. And all of them are embarrassments to their respective fanbases. Grow up.
We absolutely have been favored. Both in The Game, and in the conference. Seems everyone thinks it has to be our year "just cuz it has to be". We were a full TD favorite going into the game last year. And many national media outlets thought we were B1G favorites, and this year is starting out the same way.
That puts ALL the pressure on us ALL year. I don't mind being highly thought of nationally. It certainly doesn't hurt recruiting when they see us inside the top 10. But my point is all the hype in the world hasn't provided results on the field, and for once I think it would be nice to outperform expectations instead of underachieving. At least in the biggest games.
I'm curious how they actually "cheat"? You have to understand how pathetic it looks to constantly accuse another team of being "dirty" just to excuse the ass whoopins they've been handing us.
I don't like it. Not at all. We've been favored in "the game" multiple times recently going into the season. And we've been many people's picks for B1G champs. And we've quite honestly been a bit overhyped. And WE are always the ones guaranteeing wins, and talking shit about how we're gonna beat OSU, only to be made look like fools in November.
Until ANY of that happens. Until we finish a season as high or higher than we start it. Until we beat OSU. Until we win the B1G. Until we walk the walk, I just wish we would shut our mouths about anything and everything Ohio State. And that especially includes talking about people who aren't even there anymore.
Time we kept our mouths shut. Kept ourselves humble but hungry. Put our heads down, and do what OSU has been doing to us for years... Outworking, out-performing, and quite frankly, out-coaching us. And on that particular note, we would all be well served to not underestimate Ryan Day, even as a rookie HC. He's already taking us to school on the recruiting trail, as top players around the country are literally lining up to play for him and his offense.
So yeah, JH should have just given a generic answer and shouldn't have given OSU anything that could even remotely be considered bulletin board material. And if even ONE player this year even hints at a guaranteed win against OSU, I will personally volunteer to glue their mouths shut, and will be happy to open it back up if we back it up for once.
One thing people seem to be overlooking here is the likelihood that our defense doesn't get off the field quite as quickly and efficiently as it did last year, in addition to probably resulting in slightly worse field position on average.
Just can't lose the personnel we did on defense and not expect a drop off on that side.
Actually, I expect we will score about the same or less than last year.
I know everyone sees the army game as a potential blowout waiting to happen, but army runs the ball.... ALLLLLL THE TIME. Might as well cut the game clock in half effectively.
Then you factor in playing games against ND, Wisconsin, PSU, MSU, and OSU, all of which have good to great defenses, and it's unlikely those games see scores over 30.
Thenthere's the fact that IF JH allows us to open up the offense, there are bound to be growing pains and learning curves to deal with. We're not going to just come in and score 50 a game.
We will put up big numbers against the Rutgers of the world, but just like last year (and every year in recent memory), I suspect we will slow way down against the top teams on the schedule. Just hope we can score 1 more point than the other guys.
A more respected university? Have you heard of the research hospital at Ohio State? Or their business school? It's garbage like that that makes us look ridiculous as a fan base, and quite frankly, it should.
As far as the football program. OSU absolutely is superior right now. You're ridiculous if you can't acknowledge that. Could that change? I sure hope so. Although I'm not sure it will with this current coach who seems to turn 5* recruits into distant memories, or the laughing stock of the entire freaking state of Ohio when they insist on pounding their chest and guaranteeing wins "next time". Even while I write this, they are STILL laughing at us as a program. Hell, the entire OSU fan base are bigger fans of JH than WE are.
So maybe cut the "we're just as good as they are" crap. We're not academically superior, or morally superior, and we're sure as hell not athletically superior. That's the attitude that has made us their whipping boy for 2 decades now and it needs to stop.
You sure about that? There are more people on this site trashing Mattison than supporting him. Meanwhile, if you ever read the buckeye forums, the overwhelming majority have said they wouldn't be upset if Urban Meyer came back and coached again. They rwcogirecwhat he did for the program and wish him the best. Me thinks you have your fan bases confused. Way too many self entitled fans of this team who pretend to be so morally superior to anyone else.
Really hate it that we have to resort to conspiracy theories to explain away the difference between our program and theirs. I know it makes us feel better about playing second fiddle to them but it A. Probably isn't true and B. Is a bad look for us.
And if you subscribe to that theory than how are we ever supposed to beat them? I mean apparently it's rigged against us right?
1. We are a basketball school, and the sooner we all accept that the easier the rest of this will be to swallow.
2. Ohio State has more resources, better assistant coaches, better facilities, better football minds, better/more in state recruits, and the end result is a program that checks off all the boxes where we have what? A team that dominated for 80 years or so but hasn't modernized in many ways.
3. In regards to haskins specifically, part of is is recognizing talent better, but in haskin's case I feel it was simply due to being developed better and being put in a better position to succeed. Look at all of our QBs under Harbaugh. They have been thrown into the starting role with the pressure of making Harbaugh look like a QB whisperer, while simultaneously not being given the tools around them to do so.
4. No doubt Urban Meyer had our number. However, it's foolish to expect OSU to just disintegrate now that he's "gone". Ryan Day is thought by many to be one of the best up and coming coaches and even Urban said he might not have retired if he didn't have total confidence in his replacement. And let's not forget whose offense it was that put up 62 pts on us and actually could have scored more.
5. Jim Harbaugh and many of the players approach the Ohio State game "just like any other game".... And we/they wonder why we keep losing to them. They literally have a DAILY segment of practice/discussion about us. We all hate that team, but we shouldn't be shocked at the results when they understand the importance of the rivalry while all we have are foolish guarantees and a "we will win because we're Michigan" attitude.
Not sure we have much room to talk about THEIR defense sucking. We are losing a lot of talent this year on defense, and we didn't exactly peak at the end of the season. Read: we put up good numbers against bad teams.
Also, they lost THE best defensive player in the country early on, AND they were very young on that side of the ball. Next year they are returning most of their starters, and even they played better as the season went on.
It's beyond wishful thinking to just assume Ohio State is going to suck on defense. And if we lost Washington, that's an even bigger blow as he is the only coach I would retain if it were up to me.
I think you need to remove the maize and blue colored glasses.
1. ND most definitely does NOT have the best O-line we will see all year. That would be Wisconsin, followed closely by Ohio State, then maybe ND. Regardless, our D-line is supposed to be our strength and if we can't compete with a mediocre ND line, we will get dismantled against the likes of Wisconsin and Ohio State.
2 Brandon wimbush is a TERRIBLE QB. He can run a little bit, but he's not even close to the likes of a top tier college QB.
3. Don't tell me what notre Dame did last year, or us, or anyone for that matter. Right now, we are nothing more than a has been program desperate to get back to those good times. It WILL happen again someday, but I'm thinking it will be under drastically different leadership and circumstances.
4. Yeah there's plenty of season left, and if you hadn't noticed, we have one of the most difficult schedules in all of college football and we're already 0-1. That should terrify you more than reassure you. We could be looking at another season so bad that any recruit worth a crap outside the state of Michigan would be hard pressed to take us seriously, and that's a downward spiral that is difficult to reverse.
5. What offense were you watching? We scored one offensive TD all night and that came against a gassed ND defense that was in prevent. One drive it took us half the 4th quarter to get to the 50 yard line! What did we average, 2.5 yards a carry or so? Again I don't know what offense you were watching. The one I watched was abysmal.
The level of play on O-line was cellar dweller level bad. Patterson looked physically and mentally broken by the end of the game.
I hate to be that guy that loses hope, but I simply cannot and will not give this program under this leadership anymore benefit of the doubt.
And for what it's worth, that game wasn't NEARLY as close as the score would indicate.
Recent Comments
If not for an absolute gift of a PI call we lose this game.
Oh and the gift of army throwing a pick 5 yards away from going up 21-7.
I won't take it. If we play like this in B1G season and ND, we lose 4 games. Right now we're not even close.
It's officially time for us to shut the hell up. Shut up in the preseason. Shut up about "speed in space". Shut up about "but but but we would have beat Ohio State if not for the refs"... Guess what? We would have lost to army today if not for the refs absolutely gifting us on that PI in overtime.
It's time for us to shut up celebrating today like we just won the Natty.
It's time for us to shut up about "doing it the right way". Time for us to shut up about how many wins we had before the damn Titanic sank.
If you think this team is going into Wisconsin and coming out with a win, you can go ahead and shut up too.
No, army isn't just that good. They beat rice by 7. Shut up. If army doesn't throw a pick 5 yards from going up 21-7, we don't even make it to OT. Shut up.
We WILL lose at least 3 games, probably 4 this year. And if you think we're somehow still poised to make a national title run or even a B1G championship run, I think you know what to do...
Shut...Up.
Do you really think, in the year 2019, Justin Fields would have been denied immediate playing time ANYWHERE he transferred to after claiming racism directed towards him at UGA was the driving reason (at least officially). It doesn't matter if it was BS or legit. There is NO way that him landing at OSU instead of "Illinois" had anything to do with it. UGA didn't contest the transfer, and he was cleared.
And I'm sorry but anyone saying that Harbaugh has nothing to do with helping or preventing a player from being eligible immediately is not being honest with themselves or is simply not knowledgeable enough to be commenting on the subject.
Do I really need to go back and quote all the posts that were giddy with excitement about what was going on at OSU?
I'm honestly sick of all the holier than thou hypocrisy.
"He and his family took a very serious issue as reasoning that he deserves to play immediately"...
There it is again. Outright accusing someone of lying about an issue as serious as mental health. Maybe he is. I don't know. I'm not James Hudson, or his family. But to sit there, as a FAN, completely removed from the situation other than our desire to always be the "good guys" and assume a kid is lying about this is EXACTLY what I'm talking about in regards to hypocrisy. And ANYONE outside of the Wolverine fandom will point to statements like that and identify it as victim shaming because people love controversy. Let's not pretend like we all weren't enjoying the hell out of what went down last year this time down in Columbus.
And in regards to Harbaugh having nothing to do with Hudson's eligibility. That is also not entirely true. The NCAA almost universally clears players transfer waivers when the school they transferred from has zero objections to it.
I hope this all blows over and no one decides to go full Brett McMurphy over this. The truth is, this has the potential to be extremely damaging. And at the very least, Harbaugh should have known better than to say what he said in such a way that it could be so easily manipulated. He's paid millions a year and should have chosen his words much much more carefully. Let's just hope that all this was is a case of poor communication and not an actual brewing controversy that we have to endure.
LOTS of Michigan fans here doing the exact same thing we spent months ridiculing OSU fans for last year. And that is throwing a victim under the bus for the sake of maintaining moral high ground as a fan base and program.
The video of Hudson's mother is NOT a good look, at all. Everything up to that point could have just been cast off as poor journalism/reporting. But the revelation of what was said in that meeting is troubling, and I'm disappointed in my fellow wolverine fans that are trying to sweep this under the rug without even considering the possibilitythat maybe Harbaugh and UM isn't as perfect as we all make him out to be. And you know what? That's ok that they're not perfect. We're all human, and ANY big time football program is going to come with it's own set of issues and controversies.
If Harbaugh handled this poorly in the past, I'm sure he will rectify that in the future and deserves to be given that chance. But to try to victim shame or spin things to fit our "Michigan football does it better" narrative is ridiculous and so incredibly hypocritical. UM football is no better (or worse) than any other football powerhouse, and we need to take this James hudson issue seriously.
Just so we're clear, what happened under Tressel had literally no effect on the field. Yes, Tressel lied to the NCAA, and the entire program paid a pretty hefty price considering the ridiculous nature of the original offense of players doing what they wanted with their own damn property. Losing bowl eligibility and having an entire season of wins vacated is a pretty steep penalty.
And really, that buy refs huh? God you look weak and unable to cope with reality. Literally every fanbase of every team that's ever lost a sporting event has a few retards who cry about corrupt refs. And all of them are embarrassments to their respective fanbases. Grow up.
We absolutely have been favored. Both in The Game, and in the conference. Seems everyone thinks it has to be our year "just cuz it has to be". We were a full TD favorite going into the game last year. And many national media outlets thought we were B1G favorites, and this year is starting out the same way.
That puts ALL the pressure on us ALL year. I don't mind being highly thought of nationally. It certainly doesn't hurt recruiting when they see us inside the top 10. But my point is all the hype in the world hasn't provided results on the field, and for once I think it would be nice to outperform expectations instead of underachieving. At least in the biggest games.
I'm curious how they actually "cheat"? You have to understand how pathetic it looks to constantly accuse another team of being "dirty" just to excuse the ass whoopins they've been handing us.
I don't like it. Not at all. We've been favored in "the game" multiple times recently going into the season. And we've been many people's picks for B1G champs. And we've quite honestly been a bit overhyped. And WE are always the ones guaranteeing wins, and talking shit about how we're gonna beat OSU, only to be made look like fools in November.
Until ANY of that happens. Until we finish a season as high or higher than we start it. Until we beat OSU. Until we win the B1G. Until we walk the walk, I just wish we would shut our mouths about anything and everything Ohio State. And that especially includes talking about people who aren't even there anymore.
Time we kept our mouths shut. Kept ourselves humble but hungry. Put our heads down, and do what OSU has been doing to us for years... Outworking, out-performing, and quite frankly, out-coaching us. And on that particular note, we would all be well served to not underestimate Ryan Day, even as a rookie HC. He's already taking us to school on the recruiting trail, as top players around the country are literally lining up to play for him and his offense.
So yeah, JH should have just given a generic answer and shouldn't have given OSU anything that could even remotely be considered bulletin board material. And if even ONE player this year even hints at a guaranteed win against OSU, I will personally volunteer to glue their mouths shut, and will be happy to open it back up if we back it up for once.
One thing people seem to be overlooking here is the likelihood that our defense doesn't get off the field quite as quickly and efficiently as it did last year, in addition to probably resulting in slightly worse field position on average.
Just can't lose the personnel we did on defense and not expect a drop off on that side.
Actually, I expect we will score about the same or less than last year.
I know everyone sees the army game as a potential blowout waiting to happen, but army runs the ball.... ALLLLLL THE TIME. Might as well cut the game clock in half effectively.
Then you factor in playing games against ND, Wisconsin, PSU, MSU, and OSU, all of which have good to great defenses, and it's unlikely those games see scores over 30.
Thenthere's the fact that IF JH allows us to open up the offense, there are bound to be growing pains and learning curves to deal with. We're not going to just come in and score 50 a game.
We will put up big numbers against the Rutgers of the world, but just like last year (and every year in recent memory), I suspect we will slow way down against the top teams on the schedule. Just hope we can score 1 more point than the other guys.
430 pts this season
Well, we are a basketball school so all the people whining about the football program need to get on board anyways. Better for their mental health.
A more respected university? Have you heard of the research hospital at Ohio State? Or their business school? It's garbage like that that makes us look ridiculous as a fan base, and quite frankly, it should.
As far as the football program. OSU absolutely is superior right now. You're ridiculous if you can't acknowledge that. Could that change? I sure hope so. Although I'm not sure it will with this current coach who seems to turn 5* recruits into distant memories, or the laughing stock of the entire freaking state of Ohio when they insist on pounding their chest and guaranteeing wins "next time". Even while I write this, they are STILL laughing at us as a program. Hell, the entire OSU fan base are bigger fans of JH than WE are.
So maybe cut the "we're just as good as they are" crap. We're not academically superior, or morally superior, and we're sure as hell not athletically superior. That's the attitude that has made us their whipping boy for 2 decades now and it needs to stop.
You sure about that? There are more people on this site trashing Mattison than supporting him. Meanwhile, if you ever read the buckeye forums, the overwhelming majority have said they wouldn't be upset if Urban Meyer came back and coached again. They rwcogirecwhat he did for the program and wish him the best. Me thinks you have your fan bases confused. Way too many self entitled fans of this team who pretend to be so morally superior to anyone else.
Really hate it that we have to resort to conspiracy theories to explain away the difference between our program and theirs. I know it makes us feel better about playing second fiddle to them but it A. Probably isn't true and B. Is a bad look for us.
And if you subscribe to that theory than how are we ever supposed to beat them? I mean apparently it's rigged against us right?
C'mon man. Don't be that guy.
1. We are a basketball school, and the sooner we all accept that the easier the rest of this will be to swallow.
2. Ohio State has more resources, better assistant coaches, better facilities, better football minds, better/more in state recruits, and the end result is a program that checks off all the boxes where we have what? A team that dominated for 80 years or so but hasn't modernized in many ways.
3. In regards to haskins specifically, part of is is recognizing talent better, but in haskin's case I feel it was simply due to being developed better and being put in a better position to succeed. Look at all of our QBs under Harbaugh. They have been thrown into the starting role with the pressure of making Harbaugh look like a QB whisperer, while simultaneously not being given the tools around them to do so.
4. No doubt Urban Meyer had our number. However, it's foolish to expect OSU to just disintegrate now that he's "gone". Ryan Day is thought by many to be one of the best up and coming coaches and even Urban said he might not have retired if he didn't have total confidence in his replacement. And let's not forget whose offense it was that put up 62 pts on us and actually could have scored more.
5. Jim Harbaugh and many of the players approach the Ohio State game "just like any other game".... And we/they wonder why we keep losing to them. They literally have a DAILY segment of practice/discussion about us. We all hate that team, but we shouldn't be shocked at the results when they understand the importance of the rivalry while all we have are foolish guarantees and a "we will win because we're Michigan" attitude.
Not sure we have much room to talk about THEIR defense sucking. We are losing a lot of talent this year on defense, and we didn't exactly peak at the end of the season. Read: we put up good numbers against bad teams.
Also, they lost THE best defensive player in the country early on, AND they were very young on that side of the ball. Next year they are returning most of their starters, and even they played better as the season went on.
It's beyond wishful thinking to just assume Ohio State is going to suck on defense. And if we lost Washington, that's an even bigger blow as he is the only coach I would retain if it were up to me.
I think you need to remove the maize and blue colored glasses.
1. ND most definitely does NOT have the best O-line we will see all year. That would be Wisconsin, followed closely by Ohio State, then maybe ND. Regardless, our D-line is supposed to be our strength and if we can't compete with a mediocre ND line, we will get dismantled against the likes of Wisconsin and Ohio State.
2 Brandon wimbush is a TERRIBLE QB. He can run a little bit, but he's not even close to the likes of a top tier college QB.
3. Don't tell me what notre Dame did last year, or us, or anyone for that matter. Right now, we are nothing more than a has been program desperate to get back to those good times. It WILL happen again someday, but I'm thinking it will be under drastically different leadership and circumstances.
4. Yeah there's plenty of season left, and if you hadn't noticed, we have one of the most difficult schedules in all of college football and we're already 0-1. That should terrify you more than reassure you. We could be looking at another season so bad that any recruit worth a crap outside the state of Michigan would be hard pressed to take us seriously, and that's a downward spiral that is difficult to reverse.
5. What offense were you watching? We scored one offensive TD all night and that came against a gassed ND defense that was in prevent. One drive it took us half the 4th quarter to get to the 50 yard line! What did we average, 2.5 yards a carry or so? Again I don't know what offense you were watching. The one I watched was abysmal.
The level of play on O-line was cellar dweller level bad. Patterson looked physically and mentally broken by the end of the game.
I hate to be that guy that loses hope, but I simply cannot and will not give this program under this leadership anymore benefit of the doubt.
And for what it's worth, that game wasn't NEARLY as close as the score would indicate.