What would you rather have?
March 16th, 2009 at 10:20 PM ^
Solid guys, as Coach Beilien has shown he can win without NBA talent. I think the optimal situation is a foundation of solid to good upperclassmen, with a freshman phenom every few years to provide a spark, so to speak.
March 16th, 2009 at 10:21 PM ^
Well, McNamara's a douche, so not him. But I'd take Neitzel over Beasley or Mayo if I knew he'd stay for four years and the other two would only stay for one. I'd rather build a good program than hire a mercenary for one year and then have to pick up the pieces once he's gone.
March 16th, 2009 at 11:38 PM ^
Are you confusing McNamara with Syracuse's most recent white three-point sniper, Devendorf (who IS a prick)? I don't remember ever hearing anything like that about McNamara.
March 16th, 2009 at 11:46 PM ^
I actually know Gerry mcnamara and he's not a douche
March 16th, 2009 at 10:27 PM ^
No, I would not want to be Ohio State.
One of Beilein's best skills is player development. Every single player on the roster has improved from last year. Why would you want to neutralize this advantage by taking 1 and done players? Ther perfect recruits for Beilen systems are players like Manny and Deshawn who are future pros but not quite good enough to go pro early.
March 16th, 2009 at 10:57 PM ^
Uhhhhhh, UNC and Memphis both get along just fine with these types of players.
March 16th, 2009 at 11:05 PM ^
UNC has an established program. They can get away with one-and-dones because there are plenty of kids itching to go there.
We, on the other hand, would get a great player for one year and then have him replaced by an undersized white kid and have to reconfigure our entire team.
One-and-dones for established programs are fine.
One-and-dones for rebuilding programs aren't.
UNC is not really one of the staple one and done schools, most players who go there stay at least 2, many of them 3 or 4 years. There are the exceptions like Brandan Wright and Marvin Willams, but neither of those guys have really blossomed on the next level and would've been better off staying in school a little longer. Hopefully John Henson will recieve some better advice than they did. Also a note on Memphis and Coach Cal, is that you have to have some kind of respect for him because he really is looking out for the best interest of these young men. He coaches them till they are absolutely ready to go, and then he calls them in his office and tears their scholarship up in front of them. Not in the immediate best interest of his team but its the right thing to tell these kids (the one's who are really ready Rose, Evans, Wagner, etc.) to get paid now before they are injured, and as a result he is able to earn the trust of very elite recruits year after year.
March 17th, 2009 at 10:13 AM ^
I don't know that there's any "staple one-and-done" program out there. It happens with different programs.
Syracuse had Carmelo Anthony and that's about it.
Texas had Kevin Durant and I think that was it.
OSU had a few but they were at the same time.
USC had OJ Mayo and I think he was the only one.
It's not like there are schools out there who are entirely made up of one-and-done players.
March 17th, 2009 at 10:40 AM ^
Would be more of a staple 'one/two and done' place, but kids come back to get the national title.
Joe Forte left early.....but the May-McCants-and so forth class all would have left a year earlier than they did except they fell short of the title and wanted to come back--with Roy Williams in tow--for one last shot at glory.
Its why the kids are still on the team this season.
Same thing with KU. Those guys all leave after 2007, except they last to UCLA in the regionals. They vowed to come back and finish the deal.
D'uh, but I think theses are ideal places. Recruiting top-notch, future pro's, but they love the school and coach enough to stay for a run at a title, after falling short.
Its why you cant ignore the top end talent. Yes, they all want pro deals, but many of them also want to be on the March Madness stage.
March 17th, 2009 at 11:55 AM ^
there are definately repeat offeders
OSU with Kosta Kufos (or however the hell you spell it) the very next yr after they had oden and co.
USC has Demar DeRozan who I expect to make the jump this year, one year after Mayo
Memphis with Dajuan Wagner, Rose, probably Evans, and odds are at least one of the big names they are bringing in next year.
Initially I was thinking Lamarcus Aldridge left Texas after his first season, but I double checked and he left after his sophmore year.
March 16th, 2009 at 10:58 PM ^
I watched Bobby knight do an interview about the subject of one and done kids. He said that these kids only had to be eligible for their 2nd semester to be able to play through the first season, so all they had to do to achieve that was to take 6 credit hours in their first semester. That is considered a part time student and in my poinion it makes a mockery of college athletics. The entire purpose of the NCAA is to help fund the college and provide an education for kids who would normally not be able to get an education otherwise. I think it belittles this whole process when we are getting these kids in here for one year. The most important thing is that the integrity of the university is not compromised and this does not show much integrity when we are putting winning above education. Let tO$U have the one and dones I say we don't need them win or lose.
March 16th, 2009 at 11:16 PM ^
Good point. College basketball is the one sport that when you look 20 years back, it was better than it is now.
Nitpicking, but I'm pretty sure you have to be considered a full-time student to play intercollegiate sports. But yeah, they only have to go to class for one term.
March 16th, 2009 at 10:59 PM ^
I personally take the NBA guys, like Mayo, but then again I'm an NBA guy. Granted, the 4 year guys fit our system much better, but I personally would love be in Memphis' shoes next year with Xavier Henry (#3 overall player to rivals), DeMarcus Cousins (#2 overall), and they will also probably end up with John Wall (#1 overall). Couple that with 3 other 4 stars who are within the top 15 at their position and we could very well be talking about a recruiting class that tops the fab 5.
March 16th, 2009 at 11:29 PM ^
I think the one-and-doners have more time on their hands to get in trouble by accepting illegal perks than real students do. Not only that, but they are more likely to because they know they will be gone in a year and feel no real loyalty to the university.
We all have seen first-hand that a Chris Webber can set your program back ten years. I'll go for kids who need three or four years of development to go pro.
But I am really, really sick of seeing them be the shortest team on the floor almost every game.
it's still unbelievable that not only did we start 5 freshmen but they were just dominating. damn ed martin but that was basically inevitable unfortunately.
I must have missed all the NCAA troubles that have plagued USC, KSU, UCLA, OSU, Syracuse, etc. etc. after they signed guys who only played for one year ...
March 17th, 2009 at 11:24 AM ^
In TaterWorld, every program is crooked to some degree except for Michigan.
March 17th, 2009 at 11:30 AM ^
I'm amazed that one, as yet unsanctioned, incident like the Reggie Bush allegations or Mo Clarett ramblings forever provide insurmountable proof that OSU and USC are dirty, while the very real and very sanctioned case of Ed Martin do not forever sully Michigan.
In the case of USC/OSU, we are to presume using TaterLogic that the programs are forever dirty, despite the fact the NCAA hasn't actually done anything to them.
In another, we are to believe a program convicted of one of the largest violations in NCAA history is completely clean forever.
Being a hypocrite is just so HARD these days.
March 16th, 2009 at 11:43 PM ^
As for the one and done vs. 4-year guys...hard to say. With the guys that you know will be one and done, there is a certain amount of sketchiness (see Durant and Beasley), although basketball recruiting as a whole is knee deep in filth.
I tend to subscribe to the theory that you need a majority of 3/4 year players with perhaps one or two "diaper dandies" mixed in to be title contenders. OSU had Oden, Conley and to a lesser extent Cook in 07, but several upperclassmen around them. Memphis had Rose last year, but upperclassmen like CDR, Anderson, Dorsey and Dozier around him.
Next year's Memphis team will be an intriguing thing to watch. Tyreke Evans will almost assuredly be gone, but they're bringing in three star freshmen who could very possibly all be lottery picks after one year in college. I'm excited to see how they perform together next season.
March 17th, 2009 at 12:37 AM ^
I don't want one and done. But someone who sticks two to three years is fine by me (think Jalen Rose, Juwan Howard, both at UM 3 yrs.) BTW, it remains mind-boggling to think of recruiting 4 players in the top 10 of high school grads in 1991 (see wiki article for info.) I wonder if Beilein would take that kind of class?
On a related but different topic, it will be interesting to see how the current state of affairs in the NBA affects current college ball. If the NBA is in the tank financially, it would make sense for any but the top 10 college players to stay in school an extra year or two, rather than "leaving early" for an uncertain future.
AIDS.
thanks, RICH ROD
I tend to agree that we need 3-4 yr kids to build up the program. However you could argue that having kids like mayo come to UM and then succeed in the NBA might be attractive to potential recruits. Althou im not sure you could attribute those kids' successes to college development.
To be a legit contenders, you need both of these kinds of talents. You can not regularily ignore the cream of the crop because they might go pro in a year or two.
If Michigan keeps progressing forward under John Beilein as I expect the program will, it will have the ability to land ready-made pro's. The key is to recruit these guys without losing sight of the program' long term needs.
There is a balance to be struck and the good coaches do that.
What's interesting is of all the one-and-done scenarios outlined above, none found the programs decimated in the wake of the departures. The coaches knew the score and were ready to adjust. Texas, Ohio State and USC have maintained their postseason statuses in the wake of one-and-doners because they kept on recruiting. Even KSU had a nice post-Beasley/Walker first season, are in the NIT and in position to contend for a bid next year.
But, if you want to win Final Fours, you have to bring in talent. If a kid ends up as an Uber-Talent and leaves after a year or two, so be it.
Don't you remember when Kevin Durant stabbed that hobo on the streets of Austin because he didn't have any loyalty to Texas?
Or when Kevin Love raped a hippo at the zoo while wearing a suit made of $100 bills?
Or when Michael Beasley broke into that retirement home and battered a 70 year old man with his (illegally gifted) pimp cane?
Or when OJ Mayo drove his (illegally obtained) Hummer over a family of ducks crossing the road?
Or when Greg Oden ate all the oatmeal at Meijer without paying for it?
These guys are cancers and all they do is wreck programs. FACTS BE DAMNED.
To be fair, Greg Oden did eat all that oatmeal. My uncle's brother's sister's dog's cousin's flea bath giver's dad's barber was buying Cap 'n' Crunch in the same aisle.
March 17th, 2009 at 10:17 AM ^
"Or when OJ Mayo drove his (illegally obtained) Hummer over a family of ducks crossing the road? "
Is this what happened to Dennis Dixon's knee?
March 17th, 2009 at 12:07 PM ^
Chris Webber and Maurice Taylor gave their illegally-obtained mob money to feed crippled cancer-ridden orphans.