Is PJ Fleck the new Lou Holtz
Listening to him talk about Joe Milton and Michigan has me believing we will win the National Championship this year.
https://twitter.com/DanielHouseNFL/status/1318216511488577536?s=20
October 20th, 2020 at 11:21 AM ^
I hope not for his sake. Lou Holtz is a moron.
October 20th, 2020 at 3:37 PM ^
So, you're saying Fleck will coach the Jets next season and quit after 11 games?
October 20th, 2020 at 11:24 AM ^
Yup, both are pin-headed shits.
October 20th, 2020 at 7:01 PM ^
WTF, why are you insulting pin-headed shits everywhere???
October 20th, 2020 at 11:24 AM ^
He seems like a good guy. (And a good coach)
October 20th, 2020 at 11:32 AM ^
He is that blow-hard, rah-rah idiot we all hated in high school. I can't believe college players buy into his row the boat junk. I mean, that is something we used in youth football to motivate elementary kids to hit each other.
October 20th, 2020 at 11:37 AM ^
It’s working for him so far.
October 20th, 2020 at 11:41 AM ^
I bet he gets a bid gig next, SC, UCLA, Texas...
October 20th, 2020 at 11:48 AM ^
One of those programs does not belong with the others, and that program is UCLA.
October 20th, 2020 at 11:54 AM ^
Yeah, but they have deep pockets
October 20th, 2020 at 8:46 PM ^
UCLA has the opposite of deep pockets when it comes to athletics and football in particular
October 20th, 2020 at 12:53 PM ^
Why leave Minnesota? Seriously... great place to live, has put them on map, and they are the favorite in their division.... I'd rather continue to build the program than to be a traitor and leave and risk it not working elsewhere...
BTW he'd have been a great hire here...
October 20th, 2020 at 1:49 PM ^
Because at the end of the day, it's still Minnesota.
Everything you mentioned is true. It is a great place to live, he has them primed to compete in the West, etc. The profile of the program has certainly gone up. But there is a natural ceiling on what you're going to be able to accomplish there. Even if you win your division, you are likely not getting past whoever in the East you have to play to win the Big Ten. Especially if you're lining up opposite OSU, which is who you would be meeting in Indy at least 8-9 times out of a possible 10 year stretch. You can't recruit against those guys and you're never going to have the same level of resources and support at Minnesota that Franklin, Harbaugh and Day have at their respective schools. You're just not. The ceiling of what Fleck would be able to accomplish at a place like USC, or Auburn (two very high-level openings that could become available after this season), or Texas, or FSU (two openings that could become available within the next couple of years) is just so much higher.
He's never going to win it all at Minnesota. Not this year. Not ever. That is not a reflection on Fleck, but rather the capabilities of the program he's at. He can't recruit the caliber of player there it takes to win at that level. Not enough of them, anyway. Could he win the Rose Bowl? Possibly. In years that OSU smacks them down in the BTCG and goes to the playoff. But that is his ceiling at Minnesota.
There's nothing inherently wrong with staying in Minnesota. He could accomplish a lot there, win a few NY6 bowls and be their best coach in nearly 60-70 years. If that is all he wants out of his career, then he should stay where he is. And I wouldn't dog him for it if he did. Maybe he finds that he's very comfortable in Minneapolis and his family doesn't want to leave. Maybe he doesn't want to work in the pressure cooker that is a high profile SEC school. Perfectly reasonable reason for staying then.
But if he has aspirations of making the playoff and winning national titles, then he needs to be thinking beyond Minnesota, because he will NEVER win one there.
October 20th, 2020 at 2:37 PM ^
I agree with pretty much everything you said. He could be more or less Kirk Ferentz in the sense of just staying with that program and it being his program for better (or in Ferentz's case recently, for worse). I only disagree with the idea that he will NEVER compete for a national title. I don't think he will, but I do not think it is impossible to see scenarios where he gets them into the playoff. I don't think the chances are good, but at Llyod Christmas exclaimed, "so you're telling me there's a chance", and I wouldn't even necessarily put Fleck and Minnesota's chances at 1/1000000. If Fleck chooses to stay at Minnesota for the next 20 years (I can't see him doing that but who knows) then I would not say it is impossible that within those two decades he has them in the playoffs or in the B1G title game where the winner goes to the playoffs, once or twice in that span. Never is too strong, highly-very unlikely, I'd agree with.
October 20th, 2020 at 7:29 PM ^
This is ridiculous....
You realize they are favored vs us on Saturday ? .... continuing to win there, he can build a powerhouse... no different than here...
October 21st, 2020 at 9:18 AM ^
No they aren't
October 20th, 2020 at 2:54 PM ^
Remember when he loved Kalamazoo and the WMU folks were convinced he was going to build a MAC powerhouse?
I think he heads to the PAC12 this offseason. But he might have enough bluster for an SEC school.
October 20th, 2020 at 9:01 PM ^
Not sure why but I also see him in the Pac 12 instead of the SEC.
October 20th, 2020 at 2:24 PM ^
This year will go a long way to determining how good Minnesota can be under Fleck. Last year they went 2-2 against ranked teams and they play two ranked teams this season, only one on the road. If they can keep playing like they did in the second half of the year then they're poised to be competitive in that division; if they play a bit more like first-half Minnesota from last season then that's not a real competitor. I think they're probably pretty good but there's always some team that looks lights-out for a season and then they look mortal the following year when a couple breaks stop going their way.
October 20th, 2020 at 2:41 PM ^
I've been impressed with how quickly he got Minnesota to where they are. It was really, kind of a perfect spot for him to jump to from Western. Can more or less keep the same recruiting grounds and connections, in a bigger, better program, in a Power 5, and are in the division of the B1G that is by far easier with no real yearly powerhouse aside from Wisconsin if you really want to consider them a power house. He's done well and will be able to be pretty picky if he decides to leave.
October 20th, 2020 at 3:08 PM ^
Scheming and coaching can only go so far. I love Minneapolis and would love to see him successful year in and year out, but it may be he can only get a notch above Glen Mason after opposing coaches figure out his strategies and sheer talent outperforms Minnesota.
So perhaps Minnesota can get through a simpler Big Ten West and lose 2 games a year for a lot of years. Maybe Fleck can pull in the occasional 4 star. But it would be very difficult to out recruit so many others when the whole state of Minnesota is only about 5 million people.
Texas, Florida, Ohio with quality HS football recruits will be very challenging long-term to attract. It will always be known as a colder state way up north. It's hard enough for Michigan without more talent in the state...a small change in 4 star recruits can be a big difference long-term on a team.
Before anyone says that UM Duluth and NDSU and others have been good schools in cold climates, I totally get it...players can be good at that level, disciplined, and go to where good coaches are, but the top D-1 recruits just have so many options elsewhere.
October 20th, 2020 at 12:37 PM ^
Having played football through elementary school and highschool, I have to say that the rah-rah stuff is great. All that enthusiasm unknown to mankind, red meat, whole milk, manly men out there to outwork the opponent with our grit stuff is a large part of why I love football. That and getting to level someone at full speed. I don't have a strong opinion on PJ Fleck, but the rah-rah team tradition stuff is great.
October 20th, 2020 at 1:04 PM ^
As with most people, there are two sides. I live in Kalamazoo and he came in to speak with around 100 folks from my company. He basically yelled at us for an hour and I didn't leave feeling very energized. But after I reflected on his talk for a bit I can tell you why he has been successful wherever he goes --> he focuses on culture first. Regardless of what you think about him he gets people on board with his vision and he's had the football chops to back it up.
A few months later my family ran into his family at a local playground. He was very chill and great with his kids. Not that it matters in this context but thought it was important to take people outside of the football context all the time. It's probably this persona that shows up at recruiting visits, which could help explain his success there.
October 20th, 2020 at 1:17 PM ^
Okay and by the same token, the question could be asked of how players buy into Harbaugh's quirks? That guy definitely has a screw loose somewhere as well. Just different screws than Fleck.
And I'd say so far its working for him. The guy won 11 games last year and beat Auburn. Michigan hasn't won 11 games in nearly ten years. Yes, division weakness caveats apply, but he still did it with far less talent than what Michigan has, and there's very little suggesting that he couldn't do it again. You'll always find plenty of players who are willing to put up with some ridiculousness from their coaches if it translates to wins.
Nick Saban has the personality of a baked potato and the is probably as enjoyable to be around as having sandpaper dragged on and around your genitals. But kids line up to play for him because he wins. If Fleck keeps doing the same, then kids will line up to play for him too.
October 20th, 2020 at 1:26 PM ^
...as enjoyable to be around as having sandpaper dragged on and around your genitals.
I heard this from a friend, but enjoyability of this activity strongly depends on sandpaper grit.
October 20th, 2020 at 4:43 PM ^
Nick Saban has the personality of a baked potato
Not all baked potatoes.
Saban Potato:
Not Saban Potato:
October 20th, 2020 at 8:15 PM ^
Boil'em, mash'em, stick'em in a stew!
October 21st, 2020 at 12:50 AM ^
Harbaugh literally went tree climbing and had a sleep over with a recruit. Maybe cool it a bit on the coaches pulling elementary school stunts when we’ve got Captain Juicebox wearing the headset on our own sidelines.
October 20th, 2020 at 11:25 AM ^
Does he inundate anyone within a 10ft radius of him when speaking? Is he marginally intelligible at times? Does he make wildly inaccurate and outdated statements?
#BRINGBACKOPPONENTWATCH
October 20th, 2020 at 11:34 AM ^
We have 44 4-stars and 2 5-stars on our team?
October 20th, 2020 at 11:40 AM ^
Dax and Hinton. Pretty sure OSU has more 5 star receivers than we have total.
October 20th, 2020 at 11:38 AM ^
I couldn't listen to more than a few seconds of Holtz, his spitting alone was enough for me
October 20th, 2020 at 11:39 AM ^
It would be something if Fleck gets canned for taping a political ad for Jesse Helms.
October 20th, 2020 at 12:16 PM ^
Especially since Helms died 12 years ago.
October 20th, 2020 at 1:29 PM ^
I know its the explaining of the joke that kills it, but ya that was implied
October 20th, 2020 at 11:43 AM ^
Was it a spittle-"fleck"-ed comment?
October 20th, 2020 at 11:44 AM ^
How much spittle does he expel when he talks?
October 20th, 2020 at 1:00 PM ^
Just Flecks
October 20th, 2020 at 5:29 PM ^
Mutifleckity.
October 20th, 2020 at 11:47 AM ^
Far too little lisping and salivating to be Lou Holtz.
October 20th, 2020 at 11:50 AM ^
Pothiblyth
October 20th, 2020 at 11:51 AM ^
I think he's a good coach. He doesn't seem to have any stunning character flaws. I mean, Harbaugh was running up the score on USC and getting what's your deal? I don't really get the dislike of Fleck. I get it for Dantonio. Fleck, meh. He seems like a guy Michigan fans would like if he was their coach.
October 20th, 2020 at 12:02 PM ^
Not 'Bo' enough for Michigan fans. Like it or not, Bo is still the standard-bearer for Michigan football - if you can't spout off a quote here and there, or pay enough homage to yesteryear, you will not be a Michigan head football coach anytime soon. Rich Rod, and his unwelcoming detractors, have seen to that.
I want JH to stay as long as he's comfortable with the job - and I'm okay with what he's done so far. But if he were to leave in the next few years, his replacement will be some version of a Bo legacy.
October 20th, 2020 at 12:54 PM ^
Not true.... Mullen was plan B, and Fleck was plan C... neither are Bo types... and both are thriving.
October 20th, 2020 at 1:29 PM ^
Definitely glad we didn't get Mullen. According to the board, he's had covid twice in the last few days. That's weak sauce.
/s
October 20th, 2020 at 1:51 PM ^
I know, didn’t he learn the first time?
October 20th, 2020 at 3:58 PM ^
He can't even get immunity right.
October 20th, 2020 at 12:11 PM ^
Fleck is still a wait and see coach for me. He is not running anything scheme wise that is groundbreaking. Limited success at Western and 1 okay year at Minnesota is not enough for me to think he is the next great thing. The lack of stunning character flaws could be a product of his coaching stops. MAC coverage is basically non-existent. Gopher football probably ranks about 4th or 5th on people's list of favorite teams in a city with a pretty dim spotlight. He gives good pressers and his schtick plays well when he's the underdog, but that stuff only gets you so far at school with "high" expectations.
October 20th, 2020 at 12:33 PM ^
Give him credit. 11 wins is far from an ok year for them; their best season in a century.
Granted, they had an easy schedule.
If only Harbaugh could’ve put a couple of 11 win seasons together everyone would be screaming Michigan is back.
October 20th, 2020 at 1:30 PM ^
Ya, I would agree it was good year from a Minnesota standpoint, but that 11 win season included a close road loss at Iowa and getting beat handily at home to their primary rival and division heavy-weight Wisconsin. That is essentially U of M 2016 but with a bowl win. Again, nothing to scoff at but that ain't an obvious upgrade.