OT University of Oklahoma has their own dumb Fraternity
http://www.conservativeoutfitters.com/blogs/news/17460757-video-univers…
Not to be outdone by U of M's frat in stupidity, these boys take it to a whole new level.
March 10th, 2015 at 12:01 AM ^
Not a lawyer, but I thought the basis of discrimination lawsuits did not have to include specific or personal threats/actions against an individual, but rather a workplace/environment deemed hostile against a class (race, gender, sexual orientation) of people.
So putting up pinups of naked women all over a predominantly male workplace can create a hostile environment for the women...
Not sure what is going to happen to the students identified in the video...but would bet there would be a crapload of pressure to expel them from OU...and like you, unsure if they have legal grounds to do so.
March 10th, 2015 at 12:10 AM ^
Not a lawyer either and just did some googling. I would think you're right, since in that case I mentioned the two parties were not part of the same organization, but here the fraternity and presumably those offended on campus are all members of OU. Maybe that's the distinction. I dunno.
It's not just speech. Did you miss the "There will never be a n----- at SAE" part?
It's not a great leap in logic to assume these idiots are actually selecting people based on race.
That's discrimination. SAE is affiliated with OU, and OU with said federal laws. I'm guessing that discrimination based on race is illegal somewhere in there.
So no I don't think it is a slippery slope.
This maybe more of a question for MGoLawyers, but I thought while repugnant, private societies/clubs can include/exclude anyone they want? Augusta is a perfect example...
As long as they are not receiving public funds...and I don't know if frats/sororities gets funding via the student activities portion of tuition?
March 10th, 2015 at 12:54 AM ^
being allowed to exist and being allowed a place in the universtiy's Greek system. All schools have guidelines for what's necessary to be officially sanctioned. Even the chess club would have to promise to abide by non-discrimination rules. If groups want to be truly private and unaffiliated with the school, they can follow Augusta's example.
If the frat is violating rules, assuming discriminating against potential members based on race is against the rules, or if there is further evidence that the frat violates code of conduct, than they should be shut down. But I would argue that the students' speech is protected by the first ammendment, and they should not be expelled for it. The students are proteceted, the fraternity is not.
March 10th, 2015 at 12:20 AM ^
It's a very slippery slope.
By threatening students with expulsion for using a word or being accused of being a racist, you put the power to ruin a life in the hands of everyone.
You can not approach a problem like this because eventually it would turn into McCarthyism.
March 10th, 2015 at 12:28 AM ^
This specific case.
You got video evidence of them suggesting there will not be certain people allowed in said frat. If witnesses come forward etc, and it is proven that they did actively discriminate, then how is this relatable to McCarthyism?
I'm not advocating for their expulsion, but I can see how it wouldn't be wrong to do so. We're not throwing them in jail. College is a privilege and when you say stupid stuff you can lose those privileges.
Their have been lawsuits against Sammy and various black fraternities and they all get tossed out under freedom of association.
They can't be prosecuted under the law but they can be expelled for created a hostile environment that interferes with other's rights to learn.
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March 10th, 2015 at 12:33 PM ^
but they didn't break any laws or threaten anyone. Expulsion is too much. I do hope the kid leading the charge gets a nice tuneup sometime. Hopefully, by a hetero, protestant, greek, white dude who just wants to do the right thing.
Good luck to any one of them on trying to get a job anywhere other than being an assistant janitor at WalMart.
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I don't know much about Greek life, but why would it follow him forever? As long as he doesn't put SAE in his resume, how would they know?
The people in the town I live in have worked for 30+ years to create a place where everyone can co-exist. There is no racial majority in our high school, or if there is one, it's by 1 or 2 percentage points. It's amazing to watch the kids come out of school. They are all together. Racial sensitivity is part of our curriculum, and it's organic in our daily life. We, blacks and whites, interact with each other every day. Half my son's teachers are black, as are his friends. I didn't grow up in an environment like this, but I appreciate the efforts that have gone into giving my kids this opportunity. I am deeply embarrassed by this incident, more so than I expected. I think they will feel this in Evanston as deeply as they feel it in Oklahoma.
March 10th, 2015 at 12:18 AM ^
Racial division these days is generally perpetuated by the media or those with an agenda. While there is no perfect community or perfect organization, in my experience, what you describe is the rule rather than the exception. Most people these days don't give a flying fuck about what color one's skin is or who they sleep with. It's just seems the very vocal minority on each side of the bell curve get all the attention.
March 10th, 2015 at 12:24 AM ^
I'd like to believe that, but I don't think it's true, or if it is, it's a larger percentage at the ends of the bell curve. And because it is perpetuated, it continues to have exposure to younger generations. Hell these frat guys were born at least 25 years after the civil rights movement and where do they get this stuff from? Parents, mentors and their environment, which hasn't much changed.
Just look at what the President has had to deal with in his two terms. FWIW I disagree with him on more than a few political issues, but there is bullshit every day spewing forth out of somebody's mouth mocking him or linking him to a terrorist group, largely because of his race/ethnicity (think there was an incident like that in the news even today).
Of course YMMV and I would say the vast majority of people I know personally don't have views like this, but it definitely is out there.
Agree. While we might not be hearing songs about lynching, there's definitely a divide. Cities are the exception, and Evanston is more like a small urban center in that respect, but overall, we don't all hang together.
March 10th, 2015 at 10:55 AM ^
I never meant to imply people don't or shouldn't all hang together... I was born in Detroit, I've traveled to 40 states and 4 continents and don't keep track of my frequent flyer miles anymore because it really doesn't matter. I mention this because travel will teach one more about life than any textbook will.
One thing I've learned is people are the same everywhere. They generally want to provide for their families, leave things better for their kids, and live a peaceful life. That axiom is true regardless of any social or economic factors, labels, hyphens, etc.
I've learned that for the most part, when you tear down all the bullshit barriers people erect for no good reason, people find that they can be friends with people who don't look like them.
But if you people think the charlatans in popular culture don't have a ve$ted intere$t in keeping divides alive and in the forefront (regardless of ones which occur naturally) you all are sorely mistaken.
You're a fucking moron.
I don't know where you live, but the only place where this may be the rule is in big cities. Drive through Indiana or Wisconsin - this is not the case. Go to school in the suburbs of Chicago - this is not the case. This is the first place I've lived in my almost half century where integration is complete and pervasive, and even here, there are social divides by way of what neighborhood you live in. I'm not going to bore everyone with the details, but until you see a community-wide effort for equality focusing on the school system, I think it's easy to take for granted just how divided our country is. I know I took it for granted.
March 10th, 2015 at 12:41 PM ^
mighty rosy tint. Driving while black will get you pulled over in Fergussen, MO, Livonia, MI, or Sylvania, OH.... I think things are getting much better, but blaming the media for society's ills is unproductive.
March 10th, 2015 at 12:20 AM ^
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/s
He was on the '85 Oklahoma Natty team then transferred to UCLA when he got hurt and replaced at QB.
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sung a racist song?
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not the confederate south, but only because Oklahoma wasn't a state back then. I think that culturally that's where I would put them. Along with Texas.
Brilliant.
at a fucking map. Draw a line through the middle of the lower 48 states. Oklahoma is clearly south of that line.
doesn't count.
March 10th, 2015 at 10:03 AM ^
although, technically the region is referred to as "south central"
March 10th, 2015 at 11:38 AM ^
Nevermind...
sometimes I just need to follow my signature block.
March 10th, 2015 at 10:49 AM ^
Do you think that Oklahoma has no cultural similarity to the states traditionally considered the South? I think that's all the guy meant.
March 10th, 2015 at 10:07 AM ^
Texas is for sure the south, because they seceded from the Union and fought for the Confederates in the Civil War.
March 10th, 2015 at 12:15 PM ^
Pretty damn sure that 90% of the OK territory at the time fought for the Confederates, so yeah I would say it can be grouped with the "south."
March 10th, 2015 at 12:49 PM ^
northern Maryland just south of DC, cuts through PA into OH, runs through Toledo then north to the IN, MI border, across the northern 1/3 of Illinios, splits Iowa resonably in half, travels along the NE/KS border, then leaves NM and points west to the north.
March 10th, 2015 at 12:59 PM ^
is pretty close. Sorry New Mexico.
March 10th, 2015 at 11:09 AM ^
But when that kind of video surfaces, I think it's fair to question how far the mentality may go across SAE nationally. I'm guessing not very, but even a few small pockets of the country would still be very disturbing. And unfortunately this likely applies to some other fraternities as well.