OT: Tigers 10/02

Submitted by TTUwolverine on
Thought I might was well get this thread going. Not a great start for Jackson, but he recovered well.
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Jim Harbaugh S…

October 2nd, 2009 at 7:25 PM ^

the Tigers have to end the season against the ChiSox. They always have had the Tigers number and Ozzie Guillen will be gunning to knock the Tigers out of the Playoffs. Twins of course get to finish with the Royals. It wouldn't shock me if the Twins sweep and the Tigers get swept.

Joined: 06/30/2008

MGoPoints: 577

blue95

October 2nd, 2009 at 7:25 PM ^

Hawk: "There's a matta-batta-cola!" Dear God, please send a lightning bolt straight through my skull so I don't have to hear another Hawkism.

Joined: 10/01/2009

MGoPoints: 1188

blue95

October 2nd, 2009 at 7:47 PM ^

He was out for the last series with us due to "family issues." So now I have to pray for one of his family members to die before every series and hope for the best.

Joined: 10/01/2009

MGoPoints: 1188

blue95

October 2nd, 2009 at 8:55 PM ^

We're probably better off with Verlander not going against Sabathia in NY (provided we even get in). I'd rather see a Jackson choke + Sabathia genius game 1, then Verlander against whoever they think is their number 2. That is a much better matchup chance for us. I've given up on Hawkvision. I'm watching the Twins destroy KC now. Prolly default to whatever the most interesting hockey game is in a few minutes.

Joined: 10/01/2009

MGoPoints: 1188

Sven_Da_M

October 2nd, 2009 at 9:02 PM ^

... she'd be my uncle! I was at the game yesterday. Three critical mistakes by Leyland: 1. Guillen in LF. He can't move. Ball sails over head, hits the wall--low--and two runs come in. Should have had Raburn there. 2. Thames as DH. Marcus either strikes out or hits home run. Except he hasn't hit the long ball since before the All Star break. Guillen should have DH'd. 3. Santiago at 2B. For some reason, Polanco, their best clutch hitter, wasn't playing. Should have played Placido at 2B and put Santiago at SS. Everett hits worse than your Grandma. It is almost like Leyland was managing to have options in the three last games against the White Sox instead of just putting the Twins away. This is the Tigers year. As we are seeing tonight, the White Sox with Peavy in the rotation will be the favorites next year. Now that Magglio's option has kicked in, it's bye-bye to Polanco and Rodney.

Joined: 06/30/2008

MGoPoints: 2165

ikestoys

October 2nd, 2009 at 10:35 PM ^

"Santiago at 2B. For some reason, Polanco, their best clutch hitter, wasn't playing. Should have played Placido at 2B and put Santiago at SS. Everett hits worse than your Grandma." Well first off, Polanco is not our best clutch hitter. Anyways, did you see the game on the 30th? Polanco made a bad error and was probably held out because his back is bothering him again. Leyland wouldn't play Santiago for Polanco at this point unless he absolutely had to. Everett and Santiago have about the same value overall as a player because Everett makes up the fact he can't hit well with his bat. The person who needs to be taken off of the field right now is Brandon Inge. His error tonight was his third bad error in the last 6 games. He can't hit. While I appreciate the valiant effort he is putting in hurt, he's hurting us more by being on the field. Move Santiago to 3b (he doesn't have much range anyways) and keep Everett and Polanco up the middle.

Joined: 09/26/2009

MGoPoints: 1723

VAWolverine

October 2nd, 2009 at 10:43 PM ^

1. Why are we starting Figaro tomorrow and not Porcello on 4 days rest? We lucked out with Bonine on Wednesday but this is pressing our luck a bit too far. 2. I agree with Ikestoys- Inge is hurting us. He's had two decent months with all others being terrible. 3. Huff has been a bust. 4. Do the Tigers really think they can lose Polanco and play a rookie at 2B next year? Next to Cabrera he's been our best day to day player.

Joined: 11/06/2008

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Blue boy johnson

October 2nd, 2009 at 10:55 PM ^

Porcello is 20 and has never pitched this much in a season, pretty gutsy move by Leyland, certainly giving his detractors some ammo, if Figaro falters. Maybe they won't this time, but every time I think this team is losing it's grip they come out and get a win. If The Tigers win the Division , no way they beat the Yanks, no way. Tigers just are not very good

Joined: 03/15/2009

MGoPoints: 6653

ikestoys

October 2nd, 2009 at 10:57 PM ^

"1. Why are we starting Figaro tomorrow and not Porcello on 4 days rest? We lucked out with Bonine on Wednesday but this is pressing our luck a bit too far." We aren't starting porcello because you can't pitch a 20 year old who is already way over the inning limit we set for the beginning of the year. If you look at a typical velocity chart for Porcello, you'll find his velocity decreases way too much later in games. This link will show how much he's been fading: http://www.drivelinemechanics.com/2009/9/8/1021866/pitcher-profile-rick… Starting him with short rest after the amount of work he's put is not good for Porcello's health or the Tigers. Figaro has been OK the two times he's started healthy. His one real bad outing came when he was hurt. He's supposed to be OK now. Frankly, I don't like starting him either, but we have no other options at this point. Porcello's arm is just to fragile to be pitching on short rest, he'll have to be our guy on Tuesday if we finished tied or to open up the series if we don't clinch by Sunday. "Do the Tigers really think they can lose Polanco and play a rookie at 2B next year? Next to Cabrera he's been our best day to day player." Our second best player, believe it or not, has been Gerald Laird. http://fireleyland.blogspot.com/2009/09/position-player-value-breakdown… Polanco has not had a very good year, and at 34, you have to expect that he won't get better. Sizemore has had a great year in Toledo with a much better bat than Polanco. We also have Sizemore at the league minimum while we'd have to pay polanco a free market deal. With the salary constraints that Dombrowski has put us in with the contracts given to Willis, Ordonez and Bonderman, that simply won't happen.

Joined: 09/26/2009

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VAWolverine

October 3rd, 2009 at 12:08 AM ^

five innings out of Porcello tomorrow then turn it over to the bullpen. I agree Porcello ahs thrown a lot of innings this year and has exceeded expectations, but the season is on the line. I think his risk for injury is minimal but the info above about velocity reduction is interesting. Pitchers are too pampered today with 5 days rest/ 5 man rotations, pitch counts and pitching 5-6 nnings then being replaced. Can we sign Mickey Lolich to a one day contract and pitch him tomorrow? Look up his stats with the Tigers- especially 1970-1973. Simply amazing and he is never mentioned for the HOF. If I was DD I would give Polanco and two year contract. Gerald Laird being our second best player? I will have to be water boarded to believe that.

Joined: 11/06/2008

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ikestoys

October 3rd, 2009 at 12:26 AM ^

"five innings out of Porcello tomorrow then turn it over to the bullpen. I agree Porcello ahs thrown a lot of innings this year and has exceeded expectations, but the season is on the line. I think his risk for injury is minimal but the info above about velocity reduction is interesting. Pitchers are too pampered today with 5 days rest/ 5 man rotations, pitch counts and pitching 5-6 nnings then being replaced. Can we sign Mickey Lolich to a one day contract and pitch him tomorrow? Look up his stats with the Tigers- especially 1970-1973. Simply amazing and he is never mentioned for the HOF." There's very clear statistical evidence about the risks from increasing a pitchers workload from year to year. Porcello has already pitched way more than what we wanted him to this year. As for your pitch count diatribe, did you follow any of the links I provided? Did you see how Porcello's velocity just drops off after 60 pitches? That is an obvious sign of fatigue, and just because some guy in a different era managed to throw a ton of pitches doesn't mean we should take risks with an arm that we have for a few more years before arbitration. Oh and you forgot 'Get off my lawn' "If I was DD I would give Polanco and two year contract. Gerald Laird being our second best player? I will have to be water boarded to believe that." Believe it or not, most people value stats more than your opinion. Financial constraints from prior mistakes will simply force DD to call up some prospects like Sizemore, Ramirez and a few pitchers because we won't be able to afford free agents like Polanco. Polanco is going to be worth 10+ million a year next year. With sizemore, we'll be able to get similar value for the league minimum because Sizemore hasn't hit arbitration yet. It's a pretty easy business decision.

Joined: 09/26/2009

MGoPoints: 1723

VAWolverine

October 3rd, 2009 at 2:08 AM ^

could be about 5 innings if we are lucky. You can manipulate stats to state anything you want them to say. The Tigers have 160 games in the books and all I'm saying is you need to use the horses that have put you in the position that you are in now to seal the deal. To play the Yankees on Wednesday they need to win the next two games assuming the Twins will not lose in that joke of a ball park they are putting to rest on Sunday. If the Tigers end up in a one game playoff with the Twins on Tuesday who will pitch for them? The answer- Porcello since he is not starting on Saturday. I find it strange Sizemore is not on the expanded roster for him to be taking over a key position in the infield next year. I know he is a key player they think highly of but why is he not with us now? I would think he could be more valuable than Don James. I doubt if Polanco is a 10 million plus player for anyone next year. Have you checked out how many key hits he's had for us this year and what is BA is with runners in scoring position since June 1? By the way...I let my kids and their friends play on my lawn whenever they want to. What I'm sending back your way is not diatribe- just differing opinions that do not jive with all of your statistical analysis. You sound like Jay Mariotti using big words like diatribe. Please step away from your spread sheets and place your hands over your head and trust your gut instincts more dude!!

Joined: 11/06/2008

MGoPoints: 9927

ikestoys

October 3rd, 2009 at 2:59 AM ^

He's going on short rest, presumably, he'd tire much earlier than that. He'd also not have his best stuff. We'd also risk serious injury. As for polanco not being a 10m+ player, well, his value from 2007-09 is $21.7m, $13.9m, and 15.1m. I also love how you go from telling me to stay away from stats and how they can be manipulated into anything then cite a stat that has the smallest overall sample. Do you realize how hypocritical that is? You've completely missed the point of the whole debate btw, no one is disputing that Polanco has been a productive player. However, the Tigers have really dug themselves into a hole with some of the ridiculous contracts we've given out to guys like Willis, Bonderman, Robertson and Ordonez. That is about 50m right there for 3 guys who have no future with the team and 1 guy who is a shell of his former self. Sizemore will cost the team about 400k and has shown that he has the potential to be a solid MLB 2B. Polanco, if we give him half of his worth, would get ~8m. The Tigers may lose some value from Polanco leaving, but they will also shed his salary, which is important for a team that has too big of a payroll in a terrible economy.

Joined: 09/26/2009

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VAWolverine

October 3rd, 2009 at 11:41 AM ^

be going on short rest. This is true. Regarding having his best stuff- this is a theory and cannot be proven unless he pitches. He pitched great on Tuesday. Risking arm injury is also questionable since he is not reporting any acute or chronic arm issues. I would agree his arm is fatigued, which it should be this time of year. I agree we have a lot of expensive dead wood on the team but to compromise next years chances of competing can cost more at the gate with the economy than it would to sign Polanco. If the Tigers play like they did in 2008 their attendance will be much less than this year. I would trade Inge and see if Sizemore can play third. I'd also try to use Bonderman as a closer since I do not believe his arm will be strong enough to start after the thoracic outlet surgery he had last year. We agree to disagree but I respect your views.

Joined: 11/06/2008

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