OT: Phelps or Bolt?

Submitted by goblue1213 on
So, with the Olympics wrapping up I had a discussion with a buddy about who is he more dominant Olympian. Michael Phelps the man who holds record for most individual gold medals in a career and also in a single Olympics. Usain Bolt the man who for 3 stright Olympics has won the "triple" by sweeping the 100m, 200m, and 4x100 relay. He is undefeated in Olympic finals. So, what is the boards opinion? My vote goes to Bolt. Undefeated is undefeated in the Olympics.
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DetroitBlue

August 22nd, 2016 at 9:14 AM ^

Just because something is grueling and physically exhausting doesn't mean it requires a great deal of athleticism. I know a fair number of good swimmers (at the high school and college level, not world class) and not a single one of them was even decent at another sport. I've also known sprinters who were good at basketball, baseball, football and/or soccer.
I'm not trying to diminish what Phelps, or any other swimmers have accomplished. They're super fit and work incredibly hard. I believe that elite sprinters are better all around athletes than elite swimmers, and they're drawn from a much larger pool of competitors. To me being the best sprinter in history is a greater achievement than being the best swimmer, but we can just agree to disagree.



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Goggles Paisano

August 22nd, 2016 at 5:58 AM ^

I would guess he means that running faster than anyone that has ever lived is more impressive than swimming.  Running a race has historically been one of those things people just do to compete against someone else.  When you were a kid and you thought you better than the other kid what do you do?  You run a race.  Running fast is more impressive than swimming fast.  

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Clarence Boddicker

August 22nd, 2016 at 10:46 AM ^

No one has ever dominated track like Bolt has. He's Babe Ruth, Jim Brown, Jordan: so much better than other sprinters that it'll be a dozen years before anyone catches up. Phelps won many different events but doesn't dominate like Bolt does as measured by the difference in his times and his competitors. Bolt cannot be beaten, and has not been in a decade. And, of course, more people run track than swim so Bolt faces a larger talent, er, pool.

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big john lives on 67

August 21st, 2016 at 9:42 PM ^

23 gold medals is unreal. Phelps as a swimming entity by himself would be fifth all time (and East German totals are tainted for sure) in gold medals among the various countries of the world. If it were that easy to master the different strokes, similar feats would have been accomplished by now. Phelps is competing against specialists in the different races who choose to focus on one stroke in hopes of winning a championship - and Phelps has smoked all comers. Finally, the stamina required to compete in so many events is remarkable and superior to the few sprints that Bolt must complete.

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rainingmaize

August 21st, 2016 at 9:44 PM ^

As someone who did both competitive track and swimming, Phelps is easily the worlds most dominate athlete. Swimming is a much much more grueling sport; their is a reason why those guys have to eat 10,000 calories a day. The human body traditionally isn't built for swimming. Yes swimming has more events, but that doesn't mean people have been able to take advantage of it. If you made a list of countries with the most gold medals in their entire swim history, and made Phelps his own nation, he would have come in third on that list. In addition the way swimming works is that swimmers traditionally have one dominate event. Some like Ledecky dominate mid distance. Others dominate and train strictly for one certain swim, like the breast stroke. Phelps dominated in the IM which involves a mastery of all the strokes. In addition Phelps dominated in a variety of events ranging from 50 to 400 meters. That's insane. I'm not downplaying what Bolt did, as he dominated sprinting events like no other, but just saying he started out running the 400 meters and nopped the heck out of that distance.

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panthera leo fututio

August 22nd, 2016 at 12:16 AM ^

"The human body traditionally isn't built for swimming."

This is exactly the reason why I'd define world-class sprinters as better "athletes" than world-class swimmers -- sprinting is fundamental to human movement in a way that swimming isn't. Obviously, Bolt couldn't just jump into whatever sport and excel, but the physical tools he possesses would be *enormously* useful on the football field, basketball court, baseball diamond, etc. That's not nearly as true for Phelps.

In terms of accomplishments, though, they're both once-in-a-lifetime competitors, and I doubt any of us ever see their equals in their respective sports.

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MaizeAndBlueWahoo

August 22nd, 2016 at 7:17 AM ^

I think it's the other way around.  Being a swimmer means you have to develop more skills and push your body to do things it doesn't want to do.  That means it would be better at other sports.  Suppose Phelps were to wrestle Usain Bolt.  No contest.  Shot put - no contest.  Let Bolt try to cover Phelps while Tom Brady throws Phelps a touchdown pass - no contest.  (Bolt may also easily score the touchdown, until Phelps learns the bump-and-run technique.)  Basketball - no contest.

I submit to you that if Phelps were to take on Bolt, one-on-one, in a medley of every Summer Olympic sport, Phelps would win 90% of them.  Bolt might be a better table tennis player and equestrian rider (and runner, obvs., except maybe the marathon), and there's no telling about the shooting sports.  But that's about it.

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oriental andrew

August 21st, 2016 at 9:44 PM ^

then it's bolt. otherwise, it had to be Phelps. along the lines of being the greatest athlete across a range of disciplines, why isn't Ashton Eaton in the conversation? he just won his second consecutive decathlon gold and is the world record holder.

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sadeto

August 21st, 2016 at 9:46 PM ^

Unfortunately Bolt may lose his triple-triple due to one of his teammates testing positive from a Beijing games sample. I think the b sample is being tested now. That would suck, but it would also be par for the course for this sport.

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stephenrjking

August 21st, 2016 at 11:36 PM ^

Both excellent athletes. There's a lot of discussion about Farah's place in distance running; he's not particularly fast by measure of absolute times, which matters, and the field is less impressive now because a lot of the best distance runners now focus on marathon due to the money available. But he's not a clear-cut case even in his own sport, much less overall. Eaton is also great, but what he is doing is not unprecedented. Alas, Decathlon does not have the same cachet it once did.

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stephenrjking

August 21st, 2016 at 10:11 PM ^

All of the arguments noting that swimming has more opportunities to win medals are correct to a point. Yes, there are multiple strokes and multiple relays available (no 4 x 200 track relay, for example). But despite all of these opportunities, no swimmer has even approached the accomplishments of Phelps. It's not like he has 23 Golds and there are a couple of guys in the high teens that he has passed; nobody else even has 10. He has achieved gold more than twice as much as the next person in his own discipline. He had lapped the field. Bolt is the greatest sprinter of all time, but he hasn't lapped the field. Carl Lewis also won 9 Golds, for example. I believe Bolt is greater than Lewis, but you at least have to break down the accomplishments to analyze this. Nobody is even close to Phelps. In terms of dominance in their own sport, there is no comparison. One can argue about how popular that sport is (you need a pool and specialized training to compete in swimming, while literally everyone has run a "first-to-the-door-wins" race at one time or another) and try to adjust in that way. But Phelps has crushed the field. I think Bolt is the bigger worldwide star. Again, due in part to the ubiquity of running--everyone gets it. But it's close. Frankly, we are fortunate to have been able to witness not just one but two lifetime talents at the same time. The next Olympics will feel empty for their absence. This is not even a generational talent situation, both have done things that are unprecedented and may never been seen again.

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oriental andrew

August 22nd, 2016 at 12:03 PM ^

One could then make the argument that Carl Lewis is the overall better athlete and more dominant Olympian because he was proficient in both sprints AND a field event. And remember, Lewis also won a gold in the 200m in 1984, so he wasn't a one trick pony in track, either. 

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gord

August 21st, 2016 at 10:16 PM ^

Phelps only has world records in the 100 and 200 fly and 400 IM.  Not sure how long those records will stand and every stroke but freestyle are kind of pointless.  If your boat capsizes, do you do a backstroke or fly?  No.  Bolt isn't getting caught by the lion if other people are around. Bolt's records will stand for decades assuming future sprinters are clean.  Gotta go with Bolt.

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I Bleed Maize N Blue

August 21st, 2016 at 11:06 PM ^

... and every stroke but freestyle are kind of pointless. If your boat capsizes, do you do a backstroke or fly? No.

Um, what? You never heard of the sidestroke? Saving lives is hardly pointless. And it uses the least energy if you need to swim a long distance, so is potentially more practical. Also, depending on where your boat capsizes, treading water could be more important than swimming.

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Dg

August 21st, 2016 at 10:26 PM ^

More impressive Olympian.  Swimming  bias here not knowing anything about it, but I think Bolt as just a pure physical specimen and what he accomplished in terms of peak performance, will never be touched again.  At least not for centuries.  You're talking about a guy who is shattering world records and celebrating when he's still got 10 meters to run.  For how little Bolt actually is competing I've never been more impressed with an athlete with the amount of time he actually has to show his brilliance.

 

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Rodriguesqe

August 21st, 2016 at 10:41 PM ^

Swimming is boutique.

Everyone runs, and the 100 and 200 are the "it" races of track (coming from a 1/2 miler). 

To me, this is like comparing eras in baseball between pre and post integration.

Phelps is no doubt amazing, but I'm not convinced no human ever could have swam faster than him. But I am convinced Bolt is the fastest human being ever, and by a wide margin.

Whats amazing is that his best 1/2 mile time is 2:10, which might not make varsity on a highschool team. And he has never even ran a mile. Maybe if he really is done with sprinting he can switch over to the marathon, seemed like the leaders were all in their 40s.

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UMpak

August 21st, 2016 at 10:47 PM ^

Bolt is absolutely the best at running fast but there's not much endurance required and not near as much technique required or things that could go wrong. From starts, to turns every 50 meters, to pacing yourself, to making all the right strokes when the competition may specialize on one, to having to swim a race and then another 30 stinking minutes later. Phelps is easily the most amazing to me.

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Lee Everett

August 21st, 2016 at 10:53 PM ^

Bolt, but I have little conviction in this selection.

When I watch him run, I just KNOW I'm seeing something special.  He sets records with ease, with personality and charisma and a smile on his face.  His casual domination is something that the other runners don't convey and is impossible for a swimmer to relate.

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turtleboy

August 21st, 2016 at 11:09 PM ^

I think the decathlon deserves more credit than just repeating minor variations of the same race over and over again. That said, if I had to give more respect to one of the 2 GOATS in their respected fields I'll give to edge to Phelps. Gave himself more chances to lose in more diverse races over a longer period of time, including the comeback story. I'll give Bolt the nod for most appropriate name of all time.

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Esterhaus

August 21st, 2016 at 11:11 PM ^

 

Bolt simply improves upon what each of us knows how to do naturally. Run hard as we can. Bolt just has a bit more fast-twitch muscle and physique combined with superior training vice his competitors, otherwise he's indistinguishable from the general population.

Phelps has, from being a youngster onwards and adjusting to a growing, changing body and dimensions, learned many counterintuitive, not infrequently, swimming strokes across a broad swath of techniques.

Hands down Phelps. Phelps is a vastly smarter and hardworking Olympian in comparison given the highly technical nature of swimming vice running. Period.

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