Stay.Classy.An…

December 21st, 2017 at 8:11 AM ^

Brian Kelly at all, because I, like many of you, cannot stand Notre Dame. However, I think this is far from a lack of "program control". The more egregious offense was his role in the death of that young man who fell out of the lift while filming a practice when the wind was out of control. Brian Kelly had far more control over that situation, then he does with these two freshman idiots shoplifting clothes. 

 

Joined: 11/27/2012

MGoPoints: 19972

Stay.Classy.An…

December 21st, 2017 at 8:41 AM ^

if these are the two incidents that are you are refering too, I can do my best. Devin Butler, who was the guy who tackled the cop outside the bar, transferred to Syracuse, seems like he got a firm handshake.

As for the other five who are arrested on a misdemeanor pot charge, three were given an additional misdemeanor charge of possessing an unlicensed handgun. 

Ashton White - left the team over the summer, hopes to grad transfer

Max Redfield - dismissed from team, playing at IUPUI 

Kevin Stephenson - still on team

Te'Von Coney - still on team

Dexter Williams - still on team

I mean, it was nothing more than a misdemeanor.....and three of the six are now gone. So it sounds like they handled it how they should have. 

EDIT - I haven't gone back through everything, just the point you made about this incident,

Joined: 11/27/2012

MGoPoints: 19972

Zarniwoop

December 21st, 2017 at 2:11 PM ^

I climbed a high-rise construction crane with a friend in collge. We were very drunk and it seemed like a great idea.

The police did not find it funny, nor did the hospital next door that had to send its helicoptor to shine a beam on us; Nor did the construction site manager who had to take 2 days and recalibrate the crane.

I assume the judge would have found it funny if I'd ever shown up in court for my hearing.

You know you're getting into too much trouble when the arresting officer greets you by name.

I also had a problem with tresspassing in college. I was the acknowledged expert on getting into any nominally locked campus building. There was never any theft or even minor vandalism, but show me a building, and I could find a way in and/or climb it. It was thrillseeking behavior, it harmed no one, but it was potentially dangerous to myself, workers who might have to work in an area I'd "entered" or climbed and the group of people that used to gather an hour after midnight to tag along.

The point is that I turned out to be a pretty solid adult without any hint of my youthful misdemeanors. Sometimes kids do stupid things. Hold them accountable, but understand that they represent promise, just like we all did, when calling for their heads.

Caveat - no understanding for guns, physical abuse, drunk driving, serious theft, distribution of drugs, or intimidation of others.

And a kid resisting arrest is going to remain a problem forever*. That's a fundamental respect problem and it cannot be taught later in life. Put your hands behind your back and accept the consequences for your great ideas.

 

*Without an incredibly rare, complete spiritual awakening. Not a religious awakening. That's different.

Joined: 09/10/2013

MGoPoints: 10498

conradb42

December 21st, 2017 at 8:27 AM ^

As a South Bend native, recent ND grad school alum and someone who had a friend play for Weis, I'm more partial to ND than most.

That being said, I agree that the situation you are referring to, Declan Sullivan's death, is a complete tradgedy and one that was avoidable and regrettable.

However, I'm one who believes in forgiveness and do not and will not hang that over BK's head any time something else comes up. 

I do also agree that there seems to be a pattern with off field issues at ND. This recent shoplifting, Alize Mack/Jones missed last year due to academics, there was the pot/gun stuff that got Max Redfield booted, there was the cheating scandal that got Kavarai Russell suspended, and I believe one or two other academic mishaps that I don't recall the specifics.

That, I believe, is a culture issue.

Joined: 09/12/2013

MGoPoints: 3586

jgoblue11

December 21st, 2017 at 8:35 AM ^

I lived in South Bend my whole life. I still live 20 minutes away from Notre Dame campus, in southwest Michigan right on the border. I am surrounded my Notre Dame fans. As any fan would, they like BK when he is winning, but as of late, they know he has brought a ton of issues to what is considered a "prestigeous" catholic school. There have been way too many off the field issues under Brian Kelly. If and when he loses the bowl game, and if he has another 8 or 9 win season next year, he will likely be gone.

Joined: 09/20/2017

MGoPoints: 1902

Stay.Classy.An…

December 21st, 2017 at 9:41 AM ^

I think Brian Kelly is a douche, and if ND fans think he has ruined their reputation and that ND is now a breeding ground for troubled players with talent, that is their opinion. What happened to this young lady, and the lady in 2011, and the lady in 2002 are all awful. Sexual assault is just such a terrible thing and unfortunately ND isn't the only college football program who probably treats it's victims or football players this way (the Brendan Gibbons situation rings a bell). I wasn't planning on looking up every ND player that has been arrested under Brian Kelly or how Brian Kelly has handled every situation. At the end of the day, the coach is responsible for the choices his players make (which isn't always fair, but it is what it is), and the coach has the responsibility to handle it in a way that is satisfactory to all those involved. I just don't think two players shoplifting clothes from Macy's is a five alarm fire, even given what has happened at ND since Kelly took over. One of them is most likely kicked off the team, the other, who knows. 

Joined: 11/27/2012

MGoPoints: 19972

Mr Miggle

December 21st, 2017 at 11:14 AM ^

actually reflects well on them. They force their athletes to do real classwork, unlike some places. They also recruit from a similar pool of recruits that we do in terms of their interest in academics.

There are plenty of schools, including one just down I-96, that are known for making it very easy for athletes to stay eligible.

Joined: 10/07/2010

MGoPoints: 47770

Mr Miggle

December 21st, 2017 at 11:14 AM ^

actually reflects well on them. They force their athletes to do real classwork, unlike some places. They also recruit from a similar pool of recruits that we do in terms of their interest in academics.

There are plenty of schools, including one just down I-96, that are known for making it very easy for athletes to stay eligible.

Joined: 10/07/2010

MGoPoints: 47770

Don

December 21st, 2017 at 8:24 AM ^

Stepherson leads Notre Dame with five touchdown catches and is third in both receptions (19) and yards (359) despite appearing in only eight games this season, starting three. The sophomore was suspended for the first four games for an unspecified team rules violation.

He was among five Notre Dame players arrested in August 2016 on a misdemeanor marijuana possession charge; he received probation and faced internal discipline. 

Joined: 06/30/2008

MGoPoints: 148505

Year of Revenge II

December 21st, 2017 at 8:27 AM ^

Under the tarnished Dome.

This could happen anywhere though, so we should try not to be smug about it, but that's a hard thing when it is ND.

JH seems to be able to ID higher character kids, and this helps a ton.

 

 

Joined: 11/12/2013

MGoPoints: 9188

Honest Abe

December 21st, 2017 at 8:39 AM ^

The funniest part of this is that it happened in a place called Mishawaka. Maybe if they were at a school where the city had culture and shit to do, they would be less likely to do this... or cow tip or whatever the hell else you can do in and near South Bend.

Joined: 12/19/2017

MGoPoints: 1788

jgoblue11

December 21st, 2017 at 8:55 AM ^

Mishawaka is actually way nicer, and has a shit load of stuff to do compared to South Bend. I am in Mishawaka a lot for our shopping and what not. There are tons of restaurants with good eats and it has a somewhat busy city atmosphere. South Bend on the other hand, is a complete shit hole. 

Notre Dame campus is starting to make a huge turn around however. Eddy Street commons, a little strip mall area, has made a huge difference near the stadium. The city is starting to buy up a lot of the poor housing and projects that surround Notre Dame campus and turn it into a decent area. 

None of it is compared to Ann Arbor however. 

Joined: 09/20/2017

MGoPoints: 1902

RedRum

December 21st, 2017 at 8:49 AM ^

why student athletes are risking their scholarship for clothes.  If its simple greed, then I don't feel bad.  But if they don't see another way to obtain non-athletic clothing, then we have a problem.  We throw economically strained kids into a rich social group... Not making excuses, pointing out why this is not suprising.

Joined: 08/20/2017

MGoPoints: 21546

Everyone Murders

December 21st, 2017 at 8:59 AM ^

That seems like you are making an excuse.  A desire to have the latest fashion/gadget that translates to shoplifting is not a result of putting "economically strained kids into a rich social group".  It's thinking you can get away with it, because you probably have in the past.  And maybe the thrill of the crime (and joining in with your friends' foolishness).

Also, when they're stealing, it's very unlikely that they think they're risking their scholarship.  Young men that age often feel impervious to obvious risks.

No sale, no sir.

Joined: 12/14/2010

MGoPoints: 65552

RedRum

December 21st, 2017 at 1:40 PM ^

with the individuals involved facing their penelty. Stepping to a broader view, it is fair to evaluate why this continues to happen.  Jimbo fisher had his star quarter back in a playoff year steal crab.  I dont' think Wilson was starving and the only thing he could steal was crab. But I think you can cite, which you have done, that their is a cultural problem with athelettes feeling entitled.

To suggest, however, that a kid from flint can keep up with the social pressures, and the dress that comes with that at that age, can be fixed by UM or ND is crazy. The NCAA would bat that down in a second.  

General point. We have a bad system. This conversation speaks to the symptoms that emerge from that system. It is fair to criticize the outcomes.

Joined: 08/20/2017

MGoPoints: 21546

Perkis-Size Me

December 21st, 2017 at 9:13 AM ^

Even if it's because they don't see any other way to get non-athletic clothing, I still dont' feel bad for them. 

Doesn't matter if they came from the hood or if they had a tough upbringing where basic amenities were hard to come by. They're old enough to know the difference between right and wrong, and if they don't know the difference by now, they shouldn't be at Notre Dame in the first place. If there's something they truly need to live or make ends meet, I'd be shocked if the school can't help provide it for them. And this wasn't like stealing a loaf of bread so you can feed your starving family. This was going to a retail store and stealing merchandise off the rack. 

There is no way that there isn't an element of greed in there. I commend Notre Dame for laying down the hammer on these chumps. 

Joined: 11/30/2011

MGoPoints: 106156

Arb lover

December 21st, 2017 at 9:47 AM ^

If you read the story above of how ND has handled rape accusations over the last 15 years its fairly clear that these kids think they can do anything. I've seen similar things at MSU over the same time frame (Mateen Cleaves, anyone)?

As Don pointed out, the performers on the team find a way to get a 2nd/3rd chance.

Joined: 11/26/2017

MGoPoints: 6915