"OSU recruiting leaving Michigan, Big Ten in the dust"
Presented without comment, other than there is an interesting anecdote about OSU's different approach to handing out offers
because so much of the cheating is obviously intentionally hidden from the public, we have no real way of knowing who is and isn't cheating, and to what degree. like, just because tennessee sucks and alabama is good, that doesn't mean tennessee isn't cheating just as much. by design, there are no bookkeeping ledgers on these cash payouts. we're all just guessing.
look, there are 4 teams in the cfp era that account for 17 of the 24 playoff berths. are only those 4 teams cheating? there obviously is a gap between those 4 schools and everyone else, but it would be foolish to imply that gap is because of cheating. only those 4 schools cheat? those 4 schools cheat the best?
i think cheating in college football is akin to money in politics. everyone is getting it. some have more than others. some win more than others. and there is no clear and direct correlation between the two. it is very hard to parse out how and why someone wins when money is just one variable in the whole enterprise.
more importantly, if you think the school that is synonymous with the most famous cheating scandal in college basketball history can't avail itself to the possibility of similar stuff occurring within its football program--with 7x the amount of players to look after and even more money at stake, idk what to tell you.
I had thought that we had some understanding, but perhaps not. Ultimately, do you believe that OSU has a systematic way of funneling large cash payments to recruits in response to signing or other kickbacks? I had thought your earlier post was a yes, but perhaps not?
I'm unclear what to draw from your response, and I also didn't get any reaction to the data I presented. I disagree with you that we have no real way of knowing who is and isn't cheating... yeah, maybe not exactly in the sense that I can prove it in court but I listed plenty of examples in my diary and also there are YouTube documentaries on bagmen and such. The schools aren't exactly that hard to figure out.
Yes, obviously more than just the Top 4 schools cheat, and yes obviously that gap between them and others is not due to cheating alone. In my post, I never claim that it's the only reason for a difference in competitiveness. But getting an incremental 4-5 top 250 type player every year due to cheating means a roster that's better by ~20 recruits (I'm making the numbers up, you get my point). As you say, it's one variable, but that doesn't diminish its importance. If it's responsible for 20% of the total, that 20% is a lot better than 10%. The margins of success and failure are thin.
To label the Fab 5 scandal as the most famous cheating scandal in college basketball history is hyperbolic at best... that was mostly self-inflicted (all Michigan punishments) and it's a tiny fraction of what's happening in the basketball schools today. To claim it's a bigger cheating scandal than UNC where they literally made up fake classes is pretty harsh.
I'm sure that Michigan has boosters giving some handshakes to some recruits - I have no illusions. I agree with you that there is cheating everywhere. I don't think we have a systematic, coach / AD-sanctioned way to funnel large amounts of money to recruits (ala Clemson's church). I think there's plenty of evidence to support that as well (John U. Bacon's books are a starting point). If we do, why didn't we get Isaiah Wilson who Georgia picked up for >$400K? Why is our recruiting not nearly that great? Basically, if Michigan was doing it systematically, the results / data are not there to support it. I mentioned that Georgia and Ole Miss - confirmed cheaters - saw recruiting rankings rise an average of 5 - 6 spots during the cheating coaches' tenures. Michigan has had no such movement. I don't know, maybe we suck so much at recruiting that it offsets our cheating, but I find that pretty irrational and hard to believe.
Finally, I want to emphasize again that I don't care if OSU or Bama or Clemson or whoever cheats. I'm not in a position to judge anyone for anything - I think it's only a net benefit to the kids. If the NCAA is a sham organization (which it is), so what? However, just admit that it's not a fair playing field though, don't pretend that you are somehow just magically better than us at everything else without acknowledging this massive advantage.
I have no insight into what may or may not be happening with recruits receiving bags. However, I think you need to take this one step further. If they are getting money to recruits to come to their school, and that is the reason for the football success, it is a good investment for the university. If you look at application rates, incoming freshman SAT and ACT scores, and donations to the university among the top football schools in the country (see OSU, Alabama, and Clemson) you will see a steady rise in the academic side of the university. OSU is a much better academic institution than it was 10 and 20 years ago. Football success is a driver for this. I know people in Columbus that have children that are now attending Alabama and Clemson. There is no way an Ohio kid looks at those schools 10-15 years ago. The entire school benefits from the marketing done by the football team. Please tell me how this is morally corrupt? Where are the victims?
This is a very fair perspective, but the skew is that it is obscene to create a giant corporate enterprise out of youth sports in the first place. You are right that all universities are engaging in some degree of participating in this gross culture. But the allegation is that OSU does so in the interest of an uneven playing field, not in service of any values. It's bad faith competition that makes OSU bad, not that they're paying players.
GTFO of here with that crap. All the top teams who consistently make the playoff are obviously breaking/severely bending the rules to gain an advantage in recruiting. Its the reality, whatever. But they are still rules printed in an NCAA rule book that should be followed right? So you are saying because M is not breaking those rules, they are the bad guys? haha ok then
From Warde to Harbaugh they preach doing things above reproach and thats what they will do...follow the rules and try and get the kids that fit the system that can grow into great players that will hopefully allow us to compete closely with you guys.
The NLI rules is a start to something that M can take advantage of, but dont spew that garbage that M is the bad guy because they follow the rule book. Of course I want the young men/women paid in someway, they are bringing in buckets of cash to the school but the current rules, are the current rules.