Matt Schembechler to hold press conference tomorrow, not good
https://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/local/michigan/2021/06/09/schembechler-son-discuss-anderson-say-he-told-dad-abuse/7622194002/
He's going to say he told Bo he was abused by Dr. Anderson when he was 10 years old. Will be joined by Daniel Kwiatkowski, a Michigan Football player from the late 70s who was abused by Anderson 4 times, and Gilvanni Johnson who says he was treated and abused by Anderson 15 times.
This is awful and heart breaking. My only thoughts are with the victims, no one else matters as much as they do.
Take down the statue and rename the building. Put a memorial in the building to the victims of abuse. If Bo didn't listen to his own son about the abuse, there isn't any defense left worth consideration.
When the man's own son comes out and says it happened to him and nothing was done, you may as well burn it down. How do you let someone do that to your child?
I'm looking forward to this...
NOT because I'm making light of the victims but because of the Bopologists coming out of the woodwork in last week's article about JH saying Bo took care of things was fucking disgusting.
Some people in this fanbase need to wake the fuck up and realize they're Penn State now.
But what will we do with our smug arrogance if we have to admit that UofM and the people in the programs and university as a whole aren't any better than all those we mock and scorn?
Geez, imagine if University of Michigan was populated by humans, and humans sins and crimes could be expected (not accepted). Instead we forever will be the neighbor bitching about the neighbors house when our back yard is full of shit.
I’m confused. So UM students/faculty are not human, supposedly some sort of alien race, who don’t expect humanistic crimes to occur, because they would not make sense on a campus occupied by aliens. But then the aliens are upset about a neighbor who is also likely a non-human extra terrestrial being because an alien complaining about a human doesn’t make much sense, but this stream of logic apparently does
I don’t know what happened. You don’t know what happened. A LOT of posters on here are certain of their thoughts. However the only people that know what happened are making recollections based on their memories from 50 years ago. Are they ? accurate? Are they influenced by perception of events? Is it Mandela Effect? I don’t know, but Bo’s stepson who described him as a horrible human being seems to think so and is holding a press conference to discuss it. I have no idea what’s what here, but I hope there is clarity that determines the fates of those being discussed and not internet speculation.
Heard on the news this morning that the stepson also claims Bo beat him & his mother severely.
I'm not saying it didn't happen, but it does seem like these allegations (by the stepson) are starting to get over the top. Sounding more like someone who is on a vendetta than someone seeking justice (who also has hired a lawyer with expectation to get substantial compensation from the university... a university he sued 20 years seeking money for a different reason that was thrown out).
I'll wait to see what develops before making any judgment.
I know a bit about Matt and he is not a credible source. If Geoff or Schemy confirm his story then that changes things for me. Do not treat Matt’s story with the same credence as other survivors.
He isn't the only one speaking and MANY are not from 50 years ago.
I don’t know what happened. You don’t know what happened.
Go read the report then.
Yes, I understand that would require effort on your part. But for the sake of #leadersandbest, please try to make an attempt to be informed.
This is stunning and sad that Bo would have let this go on for so long. He could dismiss the other players and told them to "toughen up", but when his 10 year old son says this....I am speechless!
What I am about to say is not an apology for Bo. But I think that some men of that generation were so ignorant with respect to this issue (and the abuse of boys by men in particular) and so disgusted by it when they did think about it that they were almost frozen into inaction. Again--and I cannot emphasize this enough--this is not meant as an apology for Bo. I'm thinking out loud about causes, not excuses.
Bull shit. The era is a tired excuse. His own son told him!! He wasn’t a good leader or father. Fuck him
Its a bunch of ego driven men who didn’t want to hurt their own programs so they ignored what should of been a no brainer decision
Did you see where I said it wasn't an excuse? Everything has a cause (or causes). Serial killers do what they do for reasons. That doesn't make them good reasons.
As soon as you bring it up it’s an excuse regardless if you want to claim it isn’t. The era has shit to do with it. Just bad men in power
How do you think human behavior comes about?
So I’m a little worked up and I suck at editing my thoughts, so if you want to skip past this lengthy post I totally get it. That said:
Why is it so fucking hard for so many posters to understand that he is not making any excuses for Bo? He is not making any straw man arguments. I would suspect Erik_In_Dayton would agree that the statue should be taken down.
Erik is pointing out that a dialogue to understand “why” Bo behaved how he did is a valuable dialogue to have. Because trying to understand the “why” behind peoples’ behaviors helps us cope, evolve, and be better informed and prepared for our own challenges in life.
I just can’t stand people who are so emotionally unintelligent that they refuse to try to see things from other perspectives than their own self-righteous and certain viewpoint. So to the people that respond to this post with a counterpoint: there is no counterpoint for you to make. It just tells me your reading comprehension sucks and I would never want to spend any time with you.
It seems to me that Bo was probably that kind of self-righteous person with so much arrogance that he made indefensible decisions. But I don’t know. Maybe Bo was sexually abused when he was young and repressed those feelings, and doing the right thing would have forced him to deal with things he wasn’t strong enough to deal with. Or maybe he had a father who made him feel like shit his whole life, so his own self worth was tied to the success of his program and he would never let anything tear that down. And, yes, there are absolutely cultural elements of that era that influenced Bo’s “why”.
Regardless of the explanation (which we should absolutely discuss in the hope of enlightening anyone on this very public platform), there is no excuse for how Bo handled this. Unless you believe every victim who said Bo knew is lying. That’s a hell of a conspiracy.
No, right or wrong in its content, it's an explanation. An excuse involves an emotional buttress on behalf of the perpetrator.
This kind of black/white thinking is not conducive to a thoughtful, honest discussion. Nuance exists, someone musing about cultural issues which may have impacted someone's thoughts and/or actions is not "making an excuse". It's applying critical thinking, to identify root causes of issues. Without that, there is no progress. Just people on Twitter yelling at other people for things that offend them... cough...
This is spot on and the cause of Society's troubles.
800 men have accused Andersen of molesting them. If that isn’t a mountain then I don’t know what is.
No - men of that era wouldn't have dismissed it or not comprehend that it was sexual (aka the Paterno excuse) because of nuance. If anything and you want to say men of that era were different - fine, they wouldn't have gone to the police but a father finding out a doctor molested his kid would've beaten the shit out of Anderson and left him in the street. Bo decided to call people pansies and to toughen up
You know there are dozens articles in criminology and psychology journals and so on that try to identify and address the causes. I think folks interested in a better understanding of the issue should do the sometimes laborious work of reading genuine research rather than musing and having back and forths on a football blog.
If one were really interested in understanding something rather than just sharing whatever “important” thoughts they have, there are better ways of doing it. I’m not all that convinced that open, honest, and uninformed discussion is any more valuable than the useless drivel on Twitter.
That's a really shitty way to go through life. Don't discuss anything, just read scholarly articles... okay, very practical, and likely extremely effective. Except not at all.
Well that’s not true. You need to be able to differentiate between an excuse and an explanation. Everything that happens in the world has an explanation for why it happened, and the post above is one of many possible explanations as to why Bo didn’t respond. He didn’t defend Bo, and he didn’t say the explanation was a good response by Bo. It wasn’t an excuse for why Bo reacted the way he did.
Bad men aren’t just bad men for no reason. There are a variety of explanations as to why they were bad men in the first place, and why the conditions existed for them to be bad men in the first place. Pointing those explanations out isn’t an excuse for bad men to be bad men, it’s an identification of the conditions which create bad men and allow bad men to thrive.
Agree, that's total bullshit. I was a child and then a young man at the time this abuse occurred and it was just as much wrong then for society as it is now. This abuse occurred from the 60s through the 90s and into the 2000s, this wasn't freaking the early 1900s or late 1800s.
Exactly! Was right and wrong different back then??
Both of you have missed the point entirely. It was a different era, and people did handle things much differently. Abuse of children at home was commonly ignored by teachers/schools/neighbors because that wasn't something people involved themselves in. I would suspect we can all agree abusing kids is bad, and that these days it's reported swiftly and dealt with. Prior to the late '90s into 2000, it was not. Saying those things doesn't make it an excuse for the behavior - it's a reality. I spent 8 years in the Marines, and the behavior they allowed of senior NCOs when they were younger, they no longer allowed in us. Saying that isn't an excuse for their behavior, it's a reality. You can see the difference, right? Both of those instances, yes, right and wrong still existed, but HOW people dealt with the wrong behavior HAS changed.
This board, and seemingly people in general nowadays, are really good at missing the point in most serious issues. It just seems endemic to society today, and that's really a shame. Critical thinking is near dead. We must show moral superiority at every juncture, or people won't know how virtuous we are...
/s
So Bo failed to act because he was in league with Satan? Again, even serial killers behave the way they do for reasons. But I'm not going to suggest that the University of Washington honor Ted Bundy.
The era is an excuse. Era's are different, that's not really a stretch with what he was saying
Completely agree Cobra. There is never an excuse to turn a blind eye to abuse when you can easily stop it. Statue needs to come down and the building renamed immediately
Not true. I knew of father's back then who went against our church against allegations against priests. There is no excuse, rhyme or reason for Bo to not act. We have to stop using the "generation" argument for bad behavior. Some things are just wrong regardless of who was involved or when it happened.
But many, many families did not stand up to the Church. And they should have. And Bo should have acted.
Could that be at least in part because predators are really good at picking out vulnerable individuals for their victims?
I said this before and was down voted heavily but I agree. Its not acceptable but was prominent during that time. You can take the example of a son telling his father he is guy back then, it was just not accepged.
Right, common and explainable =/= acceptable.
this may not be the place to just think out loud about the causes. They are plenty of journals in psychology and criminology with research on this topic if you’re looking for a place to start.
We shouldn't think about why Bo behaved the way he did on a Michigan blog? This will be the biggest story of Michigan sports in 2021 regardless of the basketball team's conference championship and whatever the football team does. This is worth thinking through. And we are allowed to think through it.
I agree, Erik in Dayton. A lot of bad shit that has happened in the world doesn't happen anymore because we learn and change. It doesn't make it less bad; it just means that people responded differently to it back then because social mores were different. It was as wrong then as it is now. Doesn't mean we should keep the statue up. In fact, taking it down is part of the process to prevent this from happening again. Maybe we shouldn't lionize anyone anymore.
Agreed and well said.
More to the point, I think it's especially important to understand BUT NOT defend the circumstances that lead to Bo's complicity. We are about to find out some very painful and unflattering things about a program icon.
But it's not only insufficient, but wrongheaded to (literally?) topple Bo from his perch and permanently consign him to the dustbin of history *without* reflecting on what that means for each of us as Michigan grads and fans and as people in our community. It's important to realize how Bo was a guy who put on his pants one leg at a time like the rest of us and did everything the right way until he didnt. Somewhere along the line, because of pride, stubbornness, or a calcified worldview, he lost his way when it mattered most. In a different timeline or set of circumstances, one of us could've been Bo and I hope we are all wise and informed enough to know better if put to that terrible test. But Bo almost assuredly thought he did, as well.
The No True Michigan Man Fallacy, indeed.
Who gives a shit why he didn’t take action, the only thing that matters is that he didn’t. There’s no good explanation for not taking action in this instance. If he would have a lot of pain and suffering could’ve been avoided.
Disingenuous argument when trying to assess a person's character. "Why" is everything, regardless of "what" was done.
Actions speak louder than words, or in this case not taking action. I honestly don’t care why he heard the accusations and actively decided not to do anything about it. In this case why he did nothing is far less important than the fact that he did nothing.
I think a lot of people are wondering why the man on the pedestal looked away in the face of sexual assault, especially when one of the victims was one of his kids. I also think understanding why is important so that we don't repeat it, or don't let someone else repeat it. Wanting to understand why Bo did what he did doesn't at all excuse what he did.
I’m sure a lot of people are wondering why, I’m just saying the why isn’t really all that important. Understanding why Bo didn’t say anything won’t keep people from doing the same in the future. We’ll never know why, because the person that can answer that the best isn’t around anymore. And I didn’t say people wanting to know why were looking for a reason to excuse it, there’s no way to excuse it.
Actually it is. There a lot of smart people (a diverse bunch if you will) that stop at this blog through their daily lives and have much to offer on big-time matters. I'd almost say in response there's plenty of facebook groups to go rabble on without any thought provoking input.
I will politely disagree with your "almost frozen into inaction" comment. This is the same excuse the joepa used that he couldn't understand it. Not hard for anyone, especially someone as smart as Bo, that men should not molest other men, let alone their own son. Giving someone as prostrate exam is one thing, but stick a finger up someone's ass for a sore shoulder or elbow, well I am not buying it!
I hate to say it, but the man who gave us 'The team, the team, the team' was more about, 'The brand, the brand, the brand'. He knew what was going on and he sacrificed those players and even his own son just so nothing could harm his 'team'.