February 7th, 2014 at 3:43 PM ^
February 7th, 2014 at 3:44 PM ^
February 7th, 2014 at 4:48 PM ^
Oh yes, because the sons of former NBA stars are totally slumming it?
UM got good at basketball when he hired a competent HC and recruited good players. UM football seems to have a competent HC and a coherent staff; I expect success to follow. It really is that simple.
February 7th, 2014 at 3:44 PM ^
February 7th, 2014 at 4:05 PM ^
I don't think he was questioning work ethic so much as he was pointing out the likely difference in mentality (and the difference it might make when your job is to hit someone else as hard as you can on a repeated basis) between someone who had to scrap to survive growing up (and may have been rasied in more violent surroundings) and someone who didn't.
February 7th, 2014 at 4:50 PM ^
The idea that scrapping to survive is going to make you a better football player seems silly to me. Being athletic and motivated will make you a good player, and maybe there are some genetic and social issues in play that lead to a preponderance of those individuals being clustered in a particular social strata, but there are lots of poor kids who suck as football and lots of rich kids who are certainly athletic enough.
February 7th, 2014 at 5:19 PM ^
Agreed - this is ridiculous. Taylor Lewan came from a pretty nice area, and he was one of the hardest working and meanest players we've had in a while. Jake Ryan could be thrown into that same category, or Desmond Morgan. On the flip side, the amount of production we've gotten out of kids from Detroit (or any other "ghetto" areas we've recruited) isn't exactly through the roof lately.
February 7th, 2014 at 6:06 PM ^
But Magnus' avatar reminded me that Brandon Graham played his way into the NFL first round precisely because he got motivated due to ghetto proximity. And the Pahokee kids played tough too, from what I remember.
There are many examples on both sides, so many that neither category is the rule or the exception.
February 7th, 2014 at 8:37 PM ^
Graham got "motivated" when the coaches pushed him. If he needed "his boys" to get him up to work hard and make NFL money, then that's an indictment of him and his passion, not where he grew up.
Pahokee kids were motivated, but I don't know if Larry Foote would consider them "ghetto" as much as "incredibly poor."
February 7th, 2014 at 3:44 PM ^
February 7th, 2014 at 3:45 PM ^
but thought that the University does not have higher standards than anybody else when it comes to admissions and football players (with the exception of JUCO players).
I think the staff avoids recruiting kids that are borderline on minimum requirements (e.g. Demar Dorsey), but always thought that was because they didn't want to use a spot on a kid who may not end up qualifying.
February 7th, 2014 at 3:47 PM ^
I don't think people will like the way he said it, but there are some truths there.
I don't necessarily agree with it, but that doesn't mean it's not true.
February 7th, 2014 at 3:45 PM ^
Larry will now be permanently separated from the University and MGoBlog.
February 7th, 2014 at 3:46 PM ^
Can't say that I don't get his perspective on all of this. It is certainly a different take when kids with "plan B's" and what that means are a disadvantage... I have never thought of it that way but it sure is interesting.
Still, I think a lot of kids with "plan B's" have done very well in the NFL from the QB's to linebackers. Foote certainly has raised an intriguing point to this though.
Is the getto a "black" thing or an attitude. I think it's an attitude thing which can be developed.
Finally - Foote can't even beat Dusty Rutledge in checkers so does his opinion count ?
February 7th, 2014 at 3:47 PM ^
I just don't know, man. That seems like an ill-informed opinion by Mr. Foote.
February 7th, 2014 at 3:53 PM ^
He does bring up a good point. Should Michigan take chances on amazing talent that may or may not make it into the class (i.e. Demar Dorsey) due to academic risks? This year we had the room to do it in the end and did not even try.
I wish we could have filled the class all the way even if there are some that may not make it in the fall. Think of some of the talent that got away because of the lack of interest because of "academic risk." I think of Aaron Burgridge for one. He was pretty dang good this year and wow could that have helped a lot. If he didn't make it after all then no biggy we have one less kid that we recruit as a grey shirt.
I am ok with taking risks. High risk, high reward. Low risk and low reward... just look at our team the past fricken decade.
February 7th, 2014 at 3:57 PM ^
gotta give a kid a chance, otherwise all of us will have to be OK with mediocrity...and reading the posts on this here board, no one is OK with that
February 7th, 2014 at 5:34 PM ^
But you guys have no evidence that this really happens (outside of a few rumors that happen every handful of years). Our team would not have been noticeably better with Aaron Burbridge.
And for as close as recruiting is publicized now, I feel like we'd know about other good players that Michigan wasn't recruiting. Every high talent kid in the Midwest (and in most of the country) got an offer from us and was recruited by us. It's not like there were talented kids we were passing on due to grades. The good players that MSU and OSU are picking up also had offers from Michigan.
February 7th, 2014 at 3:57 PM ^
"We didn't come here to play school!"
February 7th, 2014 at 4:01 PM ^
Demar Dorsey is playing in the Arena Football League. He wasn't accepted into any other D1 school once our admissions department denied him, and as far as I know, wasn't an all-star at GRCC or wherever he went after that.
Can we lay to rest Demar Dorsey lore?
February 7th, 2014 at 4:15 PM ^
We can lay that to rest. Arron Burbridge though...
February 7th, 2014 at 4:29 PM ^
A-A-Ron
February 7th, 2014 at 4:59 PM ^
YOU DONE MESSED UP A-A-RON
February 7th, 2014 at 4:19 PM ^
We are expecting them to be students too. Even with the help they receive, is it fair to expect students that are having a hard time meeting the NCAA minimum standards to succeed academically here? Should Michigan be a good fit for those kids? The risk of taking one probably isn't high, but a roster with a bunch of high risk students can be a serious problem. We only have to look at some of Ellerbe's teams to see what can happen.
February 7th, 2014 at 4:53 PM ^
I do think they take risks on kids, but risk is all about balancing costs and benefits. They obviously looked at Burbridge and thought it wasn't worth the risk; that might have been a mistake, but nobody should be under the impression that UM has some high bar for its athletes that makes it impossible for them to take a chance on 95% of the kids that get into "lesser" schools. Hell, look at the offer sheets of most of the kids who go to OSU, MSU, and some of the SEC schools and you'll at least see UM interest, if not offers.
February 7th, 2014 at 5:18 PM ^
My little brother went to high school with Burbridge. He said the fact that he qualified was a "miracle"
February 7th, 2014 at 5:36 PM ^
Jeff Jones is a good example of this. They dropped him because he hadn't qualified yet. But what's the harm in taking a commitment from him, and if he qualifies at a later date, then all is well. And if not, then he and the university move on. And most likely, there's still room at a Minnesota or wherever.
February 7th, 2014 at 9:55 PM ^
The coaches knew he wasn't qualified when they started pursuing him. It was even mentioned on here at the time that he wasn't going to retake the test until after NSD.
If he doesn't qualify, he's not getting into Minnesota either. Possibly, we dropped him only after admissions looked at his transcript. If admissions wanted to see more than a minimum qualifying score, then it wouldn't be fair to accept his commitment.
In any case, I'm quite okay with not taking recruits that are struggling to qualify.
February 7th, 2014 at 3:53 PM ^
Where is poster "Foote Fetish" when we need him?
February 7th, 2014 at 3:56 PM ^
Well, Larry Foote got in so I'm not sure how much lower we can really make the standards....
February 7th, 2014 at 3:57 PM ^
with the Gibbons thing, not so much on the rest.
February 7th, 2014 at 4:40 PM ^
He sounds ill-informed. What evidence does he have that Dave Brandon or MSC had anything to do with either the timing or the fact of the expulsion? And, as has been discussed at some length on this blog, the university conducted a completely different prodedure than the AAPD for a different purpose and with a different standard. That doesn't mean the university thinks it's "better than the police department."
February 7th, 2014 at 5:41 PM ^
Brandon and MSC have control over the information and how that gets relayed to the public. They have absolutely botched this entire thing from a PR standpoint. That part isn't Hoke's fault. But with the way they've handled it and left it up to Hoke to try and deliver half-truths about what's going on, its painted him in a bad light.
This whole Gibbons thing is an absolute fuckup from the university and athletic department's standpoint. They've taken a simple thing and turned it into a PR disaster, and as head of the football program, Hoke has become the fall guy for it.
February 7th, 2014 at 6:46 PM ^
February 7th, 2014 at 3:57 PM ^
waiting to see what a coach who has his players as upperclassmen for the first time in 6-7 years can do before pushing the panic button? I'm not talking about raw talent and skill, but time to grow into a B1G player.
February 7th, 2014 at 5:44 PM ^
That's why this year is a make it or break it year for Hoke. The young roster thing is the only excuse left, and that goes away this season. If he can't get it done this season, then its doubtful he gets it done anytime.
February 7th, 2014 at 4:00 PM ^
I'm surprised the comments here are focusing almost exclusively on his opinions on admissions.
February 7th, 2014 at 4:03 PM ^
is no more relevant than anyone's opinion on gibbons--and we've beat that discussion to death.
his opinions on michigan recruiting are more interesting b/c he is a former player.
February 7th, 2014 at 4:55 PM ^
Those (largely misinformed) opinions have been discussed ad naseum here.
February 7th, 2014 at 4:01 PM ^
actually any higher than the minimum ncaa requirements?
February 7th, 2014 at 4:02 PM ^
I do think Michigan should recruit JUCOs.
But I guess it's very hard for them to do it because of the credits not transferring.
February 7th, 2014 at 4:08 PM ^
from JUCO's but only for certain majors and most gen eds
February 7th, 2014 at 4:29 PM ^
of coming to a school like Michigan later, he can do it. It's not hard if he goes to a CC in Michigan to find out what courses will be accepted. Unfortunately none of the powerhouse CC programs are in Michigan. I imagine most JUCO players are just looking to become eligible to play FBS ball, not worrying about whether their credits will transfer here or to some other schools with strict standards.
February 7th, 2014 at 4:02 PM ^
I love Larry Foote as a Wolverine and a Steeler (my two favorite teams). However, a review of his comments shows that he knows less about the Gibbons situation than even a casual reader of this web site would know. Larry, do your homework before you start bloviating on non-football subjects.
Secondly, I disagree with his suggestion that the only way to win in Div 1 football is to imitate the SEC's academic standards for its football recruits and rely on players that will excell in the NFL. I could write paragraphs arguing why I think he is wrong, but I'm sure any number of people could write them as well without trying very hard. I'll spare all of us.
Larry, you're my boy and you're entitled to your opinions, but you're wrong.
February 7th, 2014 at 4:32 PM ^
and only 14 points.
February 7th, 2014 at 4:42 PM ^
both because of your views and because your two favorite teams match mine!
February 7th, 2014 at 4:06 PM ^
Interesting that he brought up Bullough. I thought that was rumored to be a PED issue, not rape?
February 7th, 2014 at 4:47 PM ^
February 7th, 2014 at 5:11 PM ^
He didn't specify "rape" but that's what we're talking about with Gibbons:
If I was Gibbons’ father, I would want the head coach not to air his dirty laundry, just like they did with Max up at Michigan State.
February 7th, 2014 at 5:37 PM ^
He just said they both had dirty laundry, meaning "some issue." Not that their dirty laundry was the same.