Coach Hoke's Final Top 25 Ballot
1.LSU
2. Alabama
3. Oklahoma State
4. Oregon
5. Stanford
6. Boise State
7. Arkansas
8. Wisconsin
9. South Carolina
10. Kansas State
11. Michigan
12. Virginia Tech
13. Michigan State
14. TCU
15. Baylor
16. Georgia
17. Clemson
18. Nebraska
19. Oklahoma
20. Penn State
21. Southern Mississippi
22. Houston
23. West Virginia
24. Florida State
25. Cincinnati
For those curious, Mark Dantonio has Michigan State No. 12 and Michigan No. 13. And Virginia Tech coach Frank Beamer had the Wolverines at No. 14.
Also interesting, LSU coach Les Miles was one of three coaches to have Michigan at No. 8 in his final poll -- joining Air Force's Troy Calhoun and Fresno State's Pat Hill. Wake Forest's Jim Grobe and San Diego State's Rocky Long had Michigan at its lowest position, No. 18.
Very weird/bitter Long would put Hoke at 18 after losing to the Wolverines and working for/with Coach Hoke and Borges.
December 5th, 2011 at 11:33 AM ^
You wont get an argument from me. The OPs point was that you can only rank based on your observations. Extending the argument, computers are the only ones who can "observe" every game.
However, the sports media views computers as evil and stupid, whenever they don't match their own flawed rankings. Nevermind that most sports journalists could barely pass a college math class or do anything more that tweet/surf/write articles on their computers.
December 5th, 2011 at 1:15 PM ^
1. They're not allowed to take margin of victory into consideration (obviously, not the fault of their progammers, but still a huge flaw).
2. We only know the formula for one of the 6 ranking systems (Colley).
3. Then there's this...
Then there is Richard Billingsley. He is 59 years old and lives in Hugo, Okla. Unfailingly courteous, Billingsley speaks with a homespun voice that exudes calm. Though he’s a stress-management expert for a living, Billingsley follows his passion for college football in obsessive ways. Starting in 1970, he set out to name a national champion for every season dating back to 1869, when Princeton and Rutgers split the two games played. (Billingsley’s verdict: Princeton.) His institutional history of college football is unquestioned. There’s just one snag. “I’m not a mathematician,” Billingsley said. A nonmathematician who uses a numbers-based formula to rank teams. A nonmathematician who, accordingly, uses the previous year’s rankings as a starting point for the next year’s, even if a school graduates its quarterback, running back and middle linebacker, and loses its coach. “I don’t know that the powers that be even know what he’s doing,” Stern said. “I’m not saying he’s bad. But … he’s bad. It’s clear it’s not what the BCS should be doing.” Billingsley is unrepentant about using the previous season’s results. He believes the past portends the future, even if the past is now playing in the NFL. The other computer systems that use preseason rankings take into account graduations, recruiting classes, and coaching changes – everything that matters. “I’m not even a highly educated man, to tell you the truth,” Billingsley said. “I don’t even have a degree. I have a high school education. I never had calculus. I don’t even remember much about algebra."
http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/football/news?slug=ys-deathtothebcs101310 The disparagement of "the computers" by voters is silly, but the computer polls are unreliable in their own right.
December 5th, 2011 at 2:11 PM ^
what you saw has a lot to do with how your team played not just the other team. anybody could go through our schedule and rank it in terms of how we did against each team.
December 5th, 2011 at 11:50 AM ^
Perhaps it would be more scientific to look at margin of victory and home field advantage (at 3 points to home team):
1. MSU (11 points)
2. Iowa (5 points)
3. ND (-1 point)
4. Ohio (-3 points)
5. SDSU (-18 points)
6. Illinois (-20 points)
7. WMU (-21 points)
8. Purdue (-22 points)
9. Nebraska (-25 points)
9. EMU (-25 points)
11. Northwestern (-27 points)
12. Minnesota (-55 points)
December 5th, 2011 at 12:46 PM ^
December 5th, 2011 at 10:31 AM ^
you know, the COACHES POLL.
December 5th, 2011 at 10:16 AM ^
they cannot watch all of the games either. We all form our opinions based on the 3 or 4 games we watch (throw in some channel surfing), plus highlights and box scores from the dozens of games we don't watch each week, plus our pre-existing biases (past performance, tradition, etc.). No one can watch 100's of hours of games in less than 24 hours.
December 5th, 2011 at 10:25 AM ^
Hell, give me some good food, a case of my favorite beverages and about 4-5 TVs and I bet I could give you a decent top 25.
December 5th, 2011 at 11:04 AM ^
THE KNOWLEDGE CAN
.
YES
December 5th, 2011 at 10:25 AM ^
I have a feeling Long's ballot has more to do with getting one of his fellow MWC teams in the BCS than with spiting Michigan or Hoke.
December 5th, 2011 at 10:26 AM ^
I disagree...you can bump TCU up without pushing Michigan that far back.
December 5th, 2011 at 1:53 PM ^
WeIl, we'll just have to disagree then! Michigan had to be out of the top 14 to open up an extra spot in the BCS. A spot that's worth roughly $10 million to his conference. He put TCU 4 spots higher than avg and Michigan 6 spots lower.
He's the head coach because Hoke left. I doubt he's feeling spiteful about a promotion, or is motivated any way other than money.
December 5th, 2011 at 12:09 PM ^
No, it's pretty damn weird. I can't imagine it's a coincidence he (along with the Wake coach) ranked M lower than any other coach did. Especially given that M absolutely crushed SDSU this year. It's very weird and clearly spiteful re Hoke.
December 5th, 2011 at 10:30 AM ^
I wonder how many coaches actually do their own balloting. My guess is that most coaches are way too busy in-season to sit around watching their DVR's for teams other than their own or an upcoming opponent.
I would think they delegate the task to someone who actually knows WTF is going on.
I personally think, for these reasons, the coaches poll should be eliminated in addition to the fact that some coaches manipulate rankings for their own benefit.
December 5th, 2011 at 10:54 AM ^
I believe almost none of them do during the regular season, and probably very few do for the last one. Maybe a Coach is handed a copy before it's turned in, and they may be prepped a little bit for the last one since it's published and they can be questioned about it. But really, what coach has time to sit down and actually think about a ballot he's putting together? It's pretty much an SID, which in my mind makes the whole poll worse. SIDs don't have time to watch the games either, and in my opinion, are more succeptible to fan-type feelings influencing their ballots. For instance, I doubt Rockly Long was negative towards Michigan and Hoke, but I could see it out of a bitter SID that wanted Hoke to stick around.
December 5th, 2011 at 10:29 AM ^
Seriously San Diego State? Does 28-7 ring a bell? 320 rushing yards? 18th huh?
December 5th, 2011 at 10:31 AM ^
over the coaches ballots. While they go on and on about bias and lack of accountablity and politics, all flaws of the human polls -- placing them 13th in the aggregate -- one poster was thoughtful enough to point out that the computers have them 20th.
December 5th, 2011 at 10:49 AM ^
A boy les
December 5th, 2011 at 10:53 AM ^
is ranking Va Tech ahead of Clemson. They played twice this year and the combined score was Clemson 61 Virginia Tech 13.
Also, annoying though it is I think I'd probably rank Sparty ahead of Michigan. If I were being honest and all that. Going 1-1 vs Wisconsin is not a disgrace.
Still, you know, am kind of super-gla it's the Wolverines in the BCS and not anyone else from the state.
December 5th, 2011 at 11:32 AM ^
These are all good points, and again, I can't remember where I saw this idea but it made sense in the way the author proposed it (as my analysis has a lot of holes). I guess my original argument should be that if coaches are going to have a say, let it be based only on their perception of teams they have played or maybe just in their conference only. I don't know...this is all such a mess.
December 5th, 2011 at 12:10 PM ^
Polls are terrible. Especially the coaches poll. This is like politicians voting in elections they are running in. Except this one vote has much more impact than any public election. .
December 5th, 2011 at 12:51 PM ^
you have downvoted a simple post that directly relates to Coach Hoke.
Be aware that you have now the "pointed finger curse". Nothing, absolutely nothing you point at in the future will acknowledge that you exist ... likely because you don't.
Go Blue!
December 5th, 2011 at 1:05 PM ^
Al Golden
December 5th, 2011 at 1:49 PM ^
For what it is worth, Michigan finished No. 12 in the Harris poll and Michigan State finished No. 13.
Here's his full final ballot:
1. LSU
2. Alabama
3. Oklahoma State
4. Stanford
5. Oregon
6. Wisconsin
7. Boise State
8. Clemson
9. Michigan
10. Kansas State
11. Michigan State
12. South Carolina
13. Arkansas
14. Virginia Tech
15. Georgia
16. Baylor
17. TCU
18. Southern Mississippi
19. Nebraska
20. Oklahoma
21. Houston
22. Cincinnati
23. BYU
24. West Virginia
25. Northern Illinois
Former Cal quarterback -- and Flint, Mich. native -- Craig Morton had Michigan at No. 7. So did former Colorado State head coach Mike Lude, a Michigan native.
Lude had a major Michigan/Michigan State discrepancy, too, ranking the Spartans at No. 19.
Former Rutgers coach Terry Shea had Michigan State at No. 9 and Michigan at No. 17. And Lansing-based radio personality Jack Ebling had the Spartans at No. 7 and Michigan at No. 16. Those were three of the biggest Michigan/Michigan State differentials among the pollsters.
December 5th, 2011 at 3:47 PM ^
Give credit where it's due, you copied and pasted this straight from behind the paywall for wolverine nation, as much as I believe Rothstein is a useless reporter, he still wrote this up, do not take this as your own
December 5th, 2011 at 4:03 PM ^
It's not an article, lol...it's a poll/ballot.
Completely different.
If it was any article, I would've linked it. This is the same as me copying the ESPN Bowl Lineup. Should I have to give credit there?
There is no opinion stated, just a poll ballot of Coach Carr.
I could've gotten the same information elsewhere.
December 5th, 2011 at 9:38 PM ^
I'm surprised that Dantonio has us that high.