Basketball Free Fall
February 10th, 2011 at 10:43 PM ^
I know this is hard for you to understand but: Beilein already took us to the tournament. That is one more time than Amaker ever did. You can say we would have in 02-03, and that's fine, but it didn't happen. Beilein took one young team to the tournament and we have vastly outplayed what people thought we would do this year. Yes, we are not a tournament team (as of now), we weren't even supposed to be an NIT team, yet we are as of this moment solidly in. That this team has the groundwork for the future to be bright has undeniably been set.
January 23rd, 2011 at 5:09 PM ^
Udoh/Mallett transfers.
January 24th, 2011 at 12:22 PM ^
Is that while both had success at WVU playing in the Big East, most people consider the Big East a relatively weak conference when it comes to football. However, with basketball, the Big East is generally one of the better conferences. I'd like to think Beilein should be successful here, but with this season apparently headed for a dismal ending, Year 5 better see a considerable jump in the number of wins and success for UM>
January 23rd, 2011 at 5:36 AM ^
John Beilein took us to our only NCAA tournament appearance since the Clinton administration. Yeah, total flop.
So Beilein gets extra special credit for our past incompetence? I'm so sick of fans adjusting their expectations to the point that they treat a Big Dance bid like it's an amazing accomplishment. Hell, under Amaker it was talked about like it was the forbidden fruit.
January 22nd, 2011 at 11:24 PM ^
January 22nd, 2011 at 11:38 PM ^
January 23rd, 2011 at 9:25 AM ^
Let's get to the heart of the matter: John Beilein may have come from WVU, but he wasn't from West Virginia. He grew up in New York, spent most of his career coaching in the east prior to WVU, and most notably, doesn't speak with a West Virginia accent. That means that sports writers at the Freep and AA.com feel like "he's really one of us, whereas RR was just a hick from the hollows."
January 23rd, 2011 at 5:38 AM ^
I really do not understand the double standard for basketball and football?
Ever seen a dollar bill?
January 22nd, 2011 at 11:25 PM ^
Team looked pretty ugly tonight. Defensive lapses. No one willing or able to drive into the lane. Lots of tough jumpers for us, pretty floaters from 5 ft for them. Beilein knows this year doesn't matter. He doesn't have to win another game. He's got two more years to make the tourney after this one, and I'm pretty confident he gets it done. Hopefully he continues to recruit players on the level of Brundidge and Darius with fewer "Under the radar" types. Truth be told, I think hiring him instead of Tubby was a mistake. That doesn't mean Beilein cant be successful here, he just isn't there yet.
January 22nd, 2011 at 11:51 PM ^
I agree with some of the things you said but definately not this:
He doesn't have to win another game. He's got two more years to make the tourney after this one...
We've just lost our sixth straight game and still have 11 left to go.
There is no possible way we finish 0 for 17 and reasonably expect Beilein to be back next year.
Now I don't think we'll go 0-17 down the stretch but if we do, Beilein should be terminated before the start of the B1G tourney.
January 23rd, 2011 at 12:13 AM ^
Outside of the 2 games against Iowa, the home game against Indiana, and the road game at Penn State (man it sure would be nice to win all 4 of those), do you honestly think we are going to win any of the other games on our schedule? I mean sure we'll be competitive in almost all of them, but winning any of them would be considered a pretty big upset.
January 23rd, 2011 at 12:23 AM ^
I think we'll win our home games vs Iowa and Indiana.
Maybe the home game against NW as well.
I doubt we'll win any remaining road games,
But I do not think we can go 0-17 to end the season and expect Beilein to be back.
January 23rd, 2011 at 1:27 AM ^
This team plays terrible against the bad B1G teams, and plays actually pretty well against the good ones, but never gets over the hump there. I'd say our chance of winning those 4 (2 vs IA, 1 IN, and PSU) are equal to our chances of losing all 4.
January 22nd, 2011 at 11:29 PM ^
I have never really been a big fan of this coaching staff. I would rather go after a good young coach somewhere but thats just my thought. I would ask every year when Amaker was here why we didnt fire him and go get Thad Matta and that has really came back to hurt us. Ifwe dont go dancing next JB should be gone.
January 23rd, 2011 at 3:59 AM ^
is the worst coach in the big ten. he survives on deep pockets. period.
January 23rd, 2011 at 5:39 AM ^
Thad Matta is the reincarnation of Bill Frieder.
January 23rd, 2011 at 12:20 PM ^
Seriously? That's the argument you're going with? Is Tressel the worst football coach in the Big Ten?
I assume Butler and Xavier have "deep pockets" as well.
BTW, that 2007/8 team was "young"... and still infinitely better than this UM team.
Season | Team | Overall | Conference | Standing | Postseason | |||
---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
Butler (Horizon League) (2000–2001) | ||||||||
2000–2001 | Butler | 24–8 | 11–3 | 1st | NCAA Second Round | |||
Butler: | 24–8 | 11–3 | ||||||
Xavier (Atlantic 10 Conference) (2001–2004) | ||||||||
2001–2002 | Xavier | 26–6 | 14–2 | 1st | NCAA Second Round | |||
2002–2003 | Xavier | 26–6 | 15–1 | 1st | NCAA Second Round | |||
2003–2004 | Xavier | 26–11 | 10–6 | T–3rd | NCAA Elite Eight | |||
Xavier: | 78–23 | 39–9 | ||||||
Ohio State (Big Ten Conference) (2004–present) | ||||||||
2004–2005 | Ohio State | 20–12 | 8–8 | 6th | ||||
2005–2006 | Ohio State | 26–6 | 12–4 | 1st | NCAA Second Round | |||
2006–2007 | Ohio State | 35–4 | 15–1 | 1st | NCAA Runner-up | |||
2007–2008 | Ohio State | 24–13 | 10–8 | 5th | NIT Champions | |||
2008–2009 | Ohio State | 22–11 | 10–8 | T–4th | NCAA First Round | |||
2009–2010 | Ohio State | 29–8 | 14–4 | T–1st | NCAA Sweet Sixteen | |||
2010–2011 | Ohio State | 20–0 | 7–0 | |||||
Ohio State: | 176–54 | 76–33 | ||||||
Total: |
278–85 |
January 22nd, 2011 at 11:38 PM ^
Everyone freak out! We had zero exceptions to the season. Now the young team hits the wall and everyone wonders why? This was expected. Sorry they got your hopes up a few times with some close loses but it happens when everyone is 18-20 years old. Wait until next year to start freaking out.
January 23rd, 2011 at 12:34 PM ^
I know the team is young, but JB has been here long enough to have built something by now. Having no expectations is just as much an indicment against the coach as having them and not meeting them.
January 23rd, 2011 at 12:03 AM ^
I've been a Beilein backer since his arrival. I think he is a solid coach and an extremely ethical guy with a young, inexperienced team. But, even with that youth, he needs to show better on the floor. He knows that. He knew it before the season started.
My biggest concern is that he's a "system" coach and his system, even with the right players, might continue to get abused in the Big Ten. Before the season, I heard rumors (very well-placed rumors) that JB would need to produce this year (despite the understood limitations of his young team) or could be on the hot seat. Some of the staff movement lead me to believe those rumors were true. I don't know if I think he should stay or go (assuming he doesn't pull out of the funk), but Brandon will have a tough call to make at the end of the year.
January 23rd, 2011 at 12:14 AM ^
I've heard you use that argument before but I can't put my finger on where.....
January 23rd, 2011 at 12:17 AM ^
I try to be consistent. Frankly, I've cut Beilein a ton more slack than RR (to some I might have been a Beilein "apologist"), but I think it's only fair to hold both to the same standard.
January 23rd, 2011 at 5:40 AM ^
At the risk of really over-simplifying it, I'll take a "program" coach over a "system" coach any day of the week.
January 23rd, 2011 at 12:04 AM ^
Non-Conference:
Michigan Offense: 1.08 PPP
Michigan Defense: .86 PPP
Conference:
Offense: 1.02 PPP
Defense: 1.25 PPP
Good teams in Non-Conference just in case people points to weak teams that Michigan faced (Clemson, UTEP, Kansas and Syracuse):
Offense: .89 PPP
Defense: .94 PPP
The main culprit for Michigan's slide is their defense, not their offense. In non-conference play, the defense is excellent, but once the conference starts, Michigan defense suffered big time for some reason. Whatever worked in non-conference, it didn't matter against Big 10 teams.
Unless, Michigan shore up on the defensive side, they're going to continue to lose games unless they get red hot from 3 point land. They need to figure out how to be more efficient on the defensive side. The offense isn't the problem since they're average/above average.
January 23rd, 2011 at 12:09 AM ^
I think Minnesota is just a terrible matchup for us. Their bigs are too much for our inexperienced young guys. I'd really like to see a Big Ten game where neither Morgan or Smotrycz gets in foul trouble. It seems like we always do better when we have both of them on the floor at the same time. Unfortunately, it seems like we only see that for the first few minutes of each half.
January 23rd, 2011 at 12:46 AM ^
A team with no seniors lost to a top 25 team. Nothing to go crazy about.
January 23rd, 2011 at 1:44 AM ^
Where was this argument when the football team lost to Wisconsin and OSU back to back? That was essentially a team with no seniors who lost to two top 10 teams. That argument didn't seem to fly with football, so why does basketball get a free pass?
The only thing I can think of is there are no expectations for the basketball team and people are ok, or reserved to the fact, that our basketball program is going to perenially be in the bottom third of the big 10.
January 23rd, 2011 at 2:23 AM ^
Well I was giving that argument to keep Rich Rod, but I have a feeling if those games were close (eg: UM lost to OSU in basketball by 4 and OSU is ranked #1,while the football team lost by 30 to OSU) Rich Rod would have been retained because even DURING the OSU football game you had people like Jay Feely calling for Rich Rod's head via Twitter.
January 23rd, 2011 at 1:29 AM ^
Beilein's offense is not working, bottom line. I like all of our players, but we just have no inside presence and you cannot solely rely on shooting 3 pointers all game. Morgan has looked good at times, but he is all that we have down low. Our offense does not seem to run any kind of plays, they just pass the ball around the circle and fire it up. No setting of screens to get Vogrich or anyone else open, hard to watch. I wish that Steve Fisher was never let go, loved him as our coach. Would love to see him back, but I know that will never happen. It would be TREMENDOUS!! Go Blue!
January 23rd, 2011 at 1:32 AM ^
"(It's) frustration, not because we lost, but the way we lost. It's the 20th game of the season and youth is not really an issue," sophomore Darius Morris said.
Darius doesn't feel that youth is an issue with the team's current losing streak.
It also sounds like the team got a little tongue lashing after the game.
Here's the link to the article -
http://detnews.com/article/20110122/SPORTS0201/101220404/1131/rss17?utm…
January 23rd, 2011 at 1:49 AM ^
I think we'll win 4 more games this season bringing us to 5 wins in the conference. That is not good.
One things I have noticed is that I feel like we don't move enough on offense. We just pass it around the perimeter and hope that something opens up. I do think Beilein is a good coach and we will be better next year, but we should not have lost all of the past few games....
January 23rd, 2011 at 1:49 AM ^
They weren't picked to do all that well, and their youth shows why. Let Beilein develop these guys.
January 23rd, 2011 at 1:57 AM ^
I'm sick of Beilein, are team is soft as hell we are not equipped to play in the big ten and its frustrating
January 23rd, 2011 at 2:04 AM ^
I guess you'd better go see a doctor before it gets worse.
I know that all of you "fire the coach" people are probably really encouraged by RR's firing, but as far as I know, there is no "volume discount" for firing multiple coaches. Besides, it wouldn't look very good to the NCAA for a school whose athletic department is on probation, no matter how unfair it might be, to fire the head of the ethics committee just because his young team isn't playing like a bunch of seniors.
January 23rd, 2011 at 10:07 AM ^
that doesn't matter
January 23rd, 2011 at 3:00 PM ^
Weak argument. The NCAA knows that it's about two things: money and winning. Whether he is on the ethics committee or not doesn't trump the fact that he is not doing a bang up job in his core job: coaching Michigan basketball.
January 23rd, 2011 at 1:58 AM ^
My original prediction was somewhere around 12 wins. I allowed early success to make me forget how young this team really is and see them as at least a NIT team with an outside shot at the NCAA. Now I remember how young they are, and I am once again in the "anything over 12 wins is a bonus" mode.
January 23rd, 2011 at 2:24 AM ^
My reasonable pre-season expectations for this Michigan team with no seniors, no star players, no real frontcourt strength and poor outside shooting were ten wins total and maybe three wins in the Big Ten. Close losses to ranked teams, while starting three first-year players, are encouraging, but they’re still losses, so frustration is understandable. I’d imagine that the players and coaches are feeling it worse than the fans.
Barring a miraculous turnaround for this season of Wolverines’ Winter Woes, this likely will be John Beilein’s third losing season out of four at Michigan. He had a total of three losing seasons in 29 seasons as a head coach before moving to Ann Arbor. Are former West Virginia University coaches just not suited for success at Michigan? Maybe.
If this Wolverines team fails to win a game (or wins less than three games) between now and the end of the season, then I’d expect Dave Brandon to consider ending the John Beilein experiment, just as he ended the Rich Rodriguez experiment. It may be easier to find a promising young head coach willing to take over the Michigan basketball program that lacks a long recent winning tradition than it was to find a promising young head coach to take over the Michigan football program.
Even if this team somehow manages to win as many as five more games and put themselves on the NIT bubble or into the CBI Tournament before the season ends, I can’t help but think that if the losing continues with few signs of on-court improvement, there will be outside influences preying on Michigan’s two best players, Darius Morris and Tim Hardaway, Jr., to accept what I’d call the Udoh Advantage* and transfer to better situations while they still have enough eligibility left to experience consistent winning. If that were to happen, then unless John Beilein could land a "Foreign Freshmen Fab Five" for 2011-12, his stay in Ann Arbor might have to end before its regularly-scheduled expiration date.
If you’re frustrated by the losing, and ready to concede the basketball season, then for Wolverines’ Winter Winning, visit Yost Arena where the nation’s 6th ranked college hockey team (17-6-4; 14-4-1-0 in CCHA play; 9-1 record since December 4) plays to enthusiastic sellout crowds and has four home games left this season before the CCHA playoffs.
* After a promising freshman season at Michigan, Ekpe Udoh, the Big Ten’s leading shot blocker as a freshman, "took his talents" to Baylor where he became the Big XII’s leading shot blocker and the sixth pick in last year’s NBA draft.
January 23rd, 2011 at 8:32 AM ^
I don't recall a ton of buzz about this season anyway. Nobody really had clear expectations, and those who made them clear also did not set the bar high. Personally, I was not expecting to be sitting down in late March watching Michigan tough it out in the Sweet Sixteen.
So, I guess I don't understand the calls for Bielein's head when nobody was expecting much of an impact this year.....
January 23rd, 2011 at 2:55 PM ^
Do you not see a problem with this thought process? The fact you had little to no expectations in year 4 is telling.
January 23rd, 2011 at 9:00 AM ^
Given the young talent on the team and in the recruiting class, I would give Beilein another year regardless of how this season turns out (unless that young talent all leaves as Chatster alludes to above).
But next year will be the 5th year under Beilein. The team will be entirely his players. At a minimum he needs to finish in the upper half of the B1G next year and make the NCAA tournament. Otherwise, he will only have had 1 decent season out of 5 and it wasnt even that great, we went 9-9 in the B1G.
I don't know how you can fire RR after 3 years and continue with Beilein after 5 years if they flop next year.
Hopefully, it will be a moot point as they will be strong next year and beyond.
January 23rd, 2011 at 9:25 AM ^
I'm of the thinking that maybe, just maybe, the B10 is one of the tougher conferences in America and is the type that can chew up young teams starting freshmen in the front court. I mean, look at MSU - preseason #2 team to probably not being ranked this week. Also, they just trudged through a particularly tough slate, with the only games against non-ranked teams being on the road. This team was never as good as 11-3 and aren't as bad as 1-5 in the B10. I still think they make the NIT with a nice push at the end, and that is enough for me. And yes, Beilein needs to start winning more games, but unlike how people treated the football coach from WVU, I'm willing to let this young team grow up a bit before dismissing the head coach.
January 23rd, 2011 at 11:05 AM ^
Bronx, of the remaining schedule (below), what games do you see as wins in order for this team to make the 2011 NIT?
Thu, Jan 27 | at (18) Michigan State |
Sun, Jan 30 | Iowa |
Thu, Feb 3 | at (1) Ohio State |
Sun, Feb 6 | at Penn State |
Wed, Feb 9 | Northwestern |
Sat, Feb 12 | Indiana |
Wed, Feb 16 | at (16) Illinois |
Sat, Feb 19 | at Iowa |
Wed, Feb 23 | (17) Wisconsin |
Sat, Feb 26 | at (19) Minnesota |
Sat, Mar 5 | (18) Michigan State |
I did some research into last few NIT brackets and here's what I found:
The worst record of any NIT team last year was North Carolina at 16-16.
The next three worst were Texas Tech, St. John's and UConn, all at 17-15.
After that was Cincinnati at 18-15, Illinois at 19-14, then Jacksonville, Seton Hall and Jacksonville St. all at 19-12.
The remaining teams all had 20 wins or more going into the tournament.
http://www.basketball.org/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/2010-NCAA-Mens-NIT…
As in 2010, the 2009 and 2008 NIT's only had one 16 win team as well: 2009 - Georgetown 16-14 and 2008 - Cal 16-15
http://www.basketball.org/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/mens-nit-2009-brac…
http://grfx.cstv.com/photos/schools/nit/sports/m-nit/auto_pdf/031608-br…
Given that the recent low to make the NIT has been 16 victories (UM currently sits at 11), against which teams do you see Michigan picking up five more wins in this schedule?
I would like nothing more than to see this team in the NIT but I cannot imagine us winning at least five more games to even have a shot to make it into the tournament.
January 23rd, 2011 at 10:28 AM ^
is a great coach but not a great recruiter. Many people blame youth for his team's underperformance and there is some truth to that - his current players will likely be significantly better with more experience. But that's just a symptom of the larger problem of recruiting. Beilein's initial recruiting class was very poor resulting in Douglass and Novak - two hardworking but limited role players - as the only juniors on this team. In his next couple classes, he brought in some decent talent, possibly a couple gems who may develop into stars (Morris, Hardway Jr, Smotrcyz) but no elite level top 50 talent. Some of the top players on the best teams are freshman and sophomores - with better talent it is possible to win with youth. The other problem, besides basic talent, is a lack of bigs/size. For whatever reason, Beiliein has trouble recruiting talented big men. Morgan has potential but even he is overmatched by bigger players in many games and he's the only real banger on this team. Smotrcyz and Horford don't have the bulk to hold their own in the paint - although they both have great potential. McClimans, so far, doesn't seem to have similar potential. So there are many nights, like last night, when Michigan has no inside presence and gets manhandled inside (outrebounded 38-13!!) while they jack up a bunch of 3's from outside. And who has Beilein recruited so far next year? Two small guards - talented but without the size this team seems to be lacking.
I didn't expect much this year, based on their talent level, but was encouraged by their early non-conference performance and my expectations increased. Now I see only 3-4 wins at most on the rest of the schedule. They will probably have another losing record. A losing record for Beilein in years 3 and 4 is not even remotely adequate. Michigan should be, at the very least, a perennial top tier Big Ten team, and a solid tourney team most years. I love Beilein's ethics and coaching and would like to give him another year to develop the current talent - and that's generous - but if there's not significant improvement next year, it's time for another coach.
January 23rd, 2011 at 11:09 AM ^
and JB is meeting expectations, so no problems here!
Seriously, we're stuck with JB at least for the next few years until all renovations/ additions are complete. Then, he can retire and we can hire an actual basketball coach.