M draft picks-two opposing views on Juwan
Jett 11. Kobe 15. Two observations re: Juwan.
1. This should forever put to rest the misguided trope on this board that Juwan can’t develop players. The Athletic had their top 100 NBA prospects back in November. Jett was 23. Kobe wasn’t even on the list. And, only one school had multiple picks among the top 15. Not Duke. Or Kentucky, UNC, Kansas, etc. Yes, the only school in the country with two picks in the top 15 was Michigan!
2. However, this begs the question: how did a team with two top 15 NBA picks and Hunter Dickinson end up with a mediocre season and not make the tourney? Obviously, the talent was there and it was developed by Juwan. But, it never came together as a team. Fluke or a true reflection of Juwan’s lack of coaching acumen? And given that Juwan isn’t going anywhere soon, how is this remedied?
Discuss.
We've discussed this ad infinitum.
Agreed. This isn't a novel thought. It's the only thing we've talked about on um basketball for months
infinitum nauseam - tomato tomato
Unfortunately, ad infinitum doesn't just mean we've discussed it before in what seems like forever.
It also suggests the possibility that we're going to KEEP discussing it forever. Please, no.
Turns out defense is important, which the team didn’t figure out until too late.
how?
- injuries/freshman pg
- lack of depth/production at 4
- wildly inconsistent play/lack of attention to detail (defense)
- unbelievable number of very close losses
Fluke or a true reflection of Juwan’s lack of coaching acumen?
uh, somewhere in the middle?
And given that Juwan isn’t going anywhere soon, how is this remedied?
uh, you sure about that?
It somehow does feel like he goes to NBA after this season, but absent getting a head coach job, I doubt he goes to be an assistant again, unless on his son's team.
A weird year. Change a fraction of that and they are in. Despite all the talent, there just didn't seem to be that alpha dog to put it away in some of those close games.
We had one of the least experienced teams in the country in a year with a ton of super seniors due to the extra covid year. Having talented but raw players is no guarantee for success. Look at some of the issues Kentucky has had relying on so many 5 star freshman. They have as much high-ceiling talent as anyone but have not been a consistent top team the past several seasons, because experience matters in college ball.
the team was literally just one basket away from finishing in a 2nd place tie in the big ten.
The NBA doesn't draft the top 58 players in college basketball. Kobe and Jett weren't even the best players on the team. They draft players who fit a mold and are high on potential. This guys like Timme, Dickinson and Edey can't find a home in the NBA despite being the most productive players in college
unbelievable number of very close losses
As someone who isn't willing to give up on Juwan just yet (as that roster was so unbalanced with clear flaws and a nonexistent leader on the team last season), this is the very argument the board and the authors of this site have given as a clear sign of poor coaching for other programs across sports. Need an example? See: Frost, Scott.
Close losses are typically not the harbinger of hope most fans dealing in copium think they are. They are a bad sign, and this is the biggest indicator against Juwan there is, IMO.
Good teams find a way to win. Bad teams find a way to lose. Both are a reflection of coaching.
Close losses are typically not the harbinger of hope most fans dealing in copium think they are. They are a bad sign,
This is too simplistic. It’s a bad sign if it doesn’t stop happening as a team matures.
It’s actually three NBA picks when you consider TWill next year
Someone else will be drafted next year but I don't think it'll be TWill.
People are sleeping on Chedda which some sites are now saying will go top 3. Granted the sites might be The Onion but still.
Was this meant to be a joke? If so, sneakily good! If not .....
Perhaps he achieved his subconscious primary goal of getting his son drafted very highly. Nobody expected it to be at 11. And everyone knew he should have been benched for long stretches last season not playing any D.
He did bench Jett for long stretches. I’m not a Juwan fan at this point but he was not preferential to Jett.
Poor coaching, unbalanced roster and some bad luck/variance.
Team should have absolutely made the tournament however.
No true experienced point guard is a killer in the college game, even if Bufkin is that position on paper he played more like a shooting guard in college.
Not getting the team to gel or to play to their strengths, despite what was lacking on the roster is on Juwan. Team had enough talent to at least be in the field of 64 if not make a run to the sweet 16. Clearly not a Final 4 quality squad, but a lot of wins left on the table, and that falls on the coaching.
For me that last game's (2nd round NIT loss) ending was an absolute disaster akin to the football loss to Michigan State due to that mishandled punt.
Your answer is included in your point #2...but it, likely, is not what you think it is.
Click here to find the answer!
NBA Draft results do not always indicate a good team. How many times has Kentucky had 3-4 taken in the draft but had a mediocre season? The NBA draft is about ceiling and potential. Jett nor Kobe were near their ceilings at Michigan.
6 SEC reg season championships, 6 SEC tourney championships, 6 final fours, and a national championship since 2010.
That Kentucky program sure is in shambles.
14 Top 5 classes and cal has only one NC. Howard has never had near the type of talent as UK, by rankings. 2022 with Houstan and Diabate were outlier years in both team rankings and in UM getting multiple blue chips. Kentucky will continue to being in 2-3 5 star guys every year, with 2-3 more 4 star guys or, now in portal era, 4-star transfers.
I would not say UK is in shambles, but I would say Cal is overrated as a coach based on the imbalanced level of talent he has had for many years. Duke and UK. had two great coaches who underperformed routinely these past 15 or so years.
Yet Calipari is seen as a great coach simply because he is one of the best recruiters ever. Howard is seen as a horrible coach for mediocre season with much less talent than Cal has ever had with some of his mediocre seasons.
Calipari has missed the NCAA tournament twice in 14 years at Kentucky.
Pretty sure he didn't have 3 All-Conference players as Juwan did with Jett-Kobe-Hunter in those outlier 2 years.
Further, Cal has failed to win 20+ games 1 time in 14 years with Kentucky while Juwan's Michigan team has only won 20+ games once in 4 years.
People love to point to Kentucky, Duke, and other bluebloods having a down year here and there to make themselves feel better about the clear declining state of basketball with Michigan but they are false equivalencies.
Wellll....Jett and Kobe with 3rd team and honorable mention so let's put that in perspective.
And Kentucky did have 3 future draft picks on the 2012-13 roster and two on the 2020-21 roster and a couple guys who at least got a cup of coffee in the NBA despite being undrafted. it's not like those were talentless-teams. Doesn't mean Juwan should be mentioned in the same breath as Calipari, but I wouldn't go so far as to say the situations were wildly different.
Juwan may not work out and this program may in fact be in decline, but we won't know that for sure until next year. Close losses, best player transferring, roster management issues all are tough signs but JH should show us what he's got with this cobbled together roster next year. Only good coaching will turn them into a functional team.
...because recruiting is one of the most important aspects of college coaching.
Talent acquisition isn't separate from coaching - it is coaching.
Watch the last 2 minutes of you know - every game from Jan to Mar to get your answer.
IT DOES NOT BEG QUESTIONS IT RAISES A QUESTION.
I love this blog.
To be or not to be? No, no, not that one…
Uh, what’s the best wifi name you’ve seen?
Hunger Games Arena
FBI Surveillance Van
Thank you.
OR ELSE IT GETS THE HOSE AGAIN.
I'm glad I scrolled down and saw this post because it saved me a spittle-fleckled ragepost. The misuse of begging the question is an irrational pet peeve.
Begging the Question
The fallacy of begging the question occurs when an argument's premises assume the truth of the conclusion, instead of supporting it. In other words, you assume without proof the stand/position, or a significant part of the stand, that is in question. Begging the question is also called arguing in a circle.
Example:
1. Erica: "How do you know that the bible is divinely inspired?" Pedro: "Because is says right in the third chapter of II Timothy that 'all scripture is given by divine inspiration of God.'"
https://www.txst.edu/philosophy/resources/fallacy-definitions/Begging-the-Question
I love how every time someone gives an example of what begging the question actually means it's about religion.
Forget it Jake. It's Colloquial Usage Town.
I've been dying on STOP SAYING "A BRIDGE TOO FAR" WHEN WHAT YOU MEAN IS "GOING TOO FAR" Hill for years.
I have 2 opposing views on this post
- It sucks
- It really sucks
You forgot to say "discuss" as if you're some kind of brilliant yet condescending moderator.
It doesn't beg the question. It might raise the question, or prompt the question, or lead to the question, but it does not beg it.
one thing juwan might not be getting credit for is his almost certain ability to pick up the phone and talk to NBA GM's. that can sell recruits since juwan can talk a kid up the draft board.
now, let's have that manifest itself in both recruiting and on-court results. i do think that he had the equivalent of miserable 'puck luck' last season. he's got a weird roster right now though, so he's going to have to coach his little tail off to get it to work.
My recollection of the ad infinitum discussions were centered on two incorrect assumptions. The first was that he couldn’t develop talent, which tonight totally buried. The second was that his job was in jeopardy or that he only had one season left to prove himself. I maintain that this is purely wishful thinking on the part of his detractors. I would maintain that an objective assessment of Warde’s actions re: Howard and his other decisions during his tenure suggest otherwise.
And, what else should we be discussing tonight? I’ll gladly start a new thread on favorite classic albums, but I seem to recall that’s been done
Tonight absolutely did not bury the idea that Juwan can't develop talent. That's just you making a statement that fits your agenda.
We all know the NBA drafts on potential, which is exactly why Bufkin & Jett were drafted so high despite showing very little on the court last year.
Juwans job is to win games, and he's not very good at it. We're 6 games over .500 in the last two years and things are not going to be much better next year.
But hey, Kobe Bufkin was drafted fifteenth so I guess Juwan is good at his job.
Last two year... Lol so the other two, don't count? This board is hilarious.
If you want to credit Howard for coasting off of Beilein's success, that's your prerogative. His best years were when he was coaching someone else's team. That is not a great sign.
Even then, he really only had one good year out of four (about to be one good year out of five). Amazing that people still defend this guy.
I hate uneducated basketball fans. “Showing very little on court last year” is ridiculous. Jett had the 3rd most 3 pointers made in the B10 as a freshman and Kobe was one of the most productive players in the league the second half of the year. Just a garbage take