OT - True Detective (spoilers only if you've missed episodes)
I know we had a True Detective thread last week, but we've had a new episode since then, so I offer this as our weekly chance to talk about the show.
Before I say anything more, please note this: Do not read on if you've missed episodes and don't want spoilers. That said, I don't think the public has any idea what's going to happen in the last two episodes, so I don't think there can be any spoilers for them. If you do somehow have knowledge of those episodes, please keep said knowledge to yourself.
My thoughts/observations:
Marty is not the killer/one of the killers. Marty is either an amazing actor - something we've been given little hint of - or he's simply not cut from the same cloth as the killer(s). It's very hard for me to see Marty taking part in the Dora Lange killing given the mystical/quasi-religious quality of it. Can you imagine Marty talking about black stars and the universe being a flat circle and Carcosa? Marty mostly just wants to drink beer, watch LSU, and sleep with women who look like younger versions of his wife. This is a man who opined that the killing might be a "retard job." Also, Marty seems to become violent only when he's worked up and/or drunk, while the Lange killing seemed to have been done in the coldest blood. I say Marty is a sexist prick sometimes, but not a murderer.
Rust is also not the killer/one of the killers. Rust seemingly shares Reggie Ledoux's "flat circle" view of the universe (or was that a put-on for the new detectives?), but Stephen Hawking might also agree with that, and he's not a serial killer. It's hard to imagine Rust buying into whatever botched mysticism would lead someone to kill a woman and put antlers on her. For good for or bad, Rust doesn't take leaps of faith. He does, though, seem to have a very strict code when it comes to the way he treats people. He'll risk his life to defend you if you're innocent, whereas he'll tell you to kill yourself if you're a murderer of children (and, now that I think of it, even that had a humane quality to it given his worldview). More importantly, I think, we see Rust on his own quite a bit, and he never seems to be doing anything regarding the killings other than investigating them. He finds the evidence in the school; he pours over maps and photos at home; he goes through unsolved case files at work - yet we never see any hint that he's already familiar with what he finds or that he's brought it into existence. I think Rust is our martyr to true detective work, not a killer of innocents.
The plotline about Marty's older daughter is not done. It's hard for me to imagine the show's creators have her dressing like she does and having sex with dudes who wear Satan t-shirts without having a plan to tie her into the killings. Also, Mary sees something (we don't know what it was) in the Episode Seven preview and then reacts in a way that makes me think he saw something very personal. He seems horrified.
There really is a tall man with a scarred face and/or a spaghetti monster. We've had three people with seemingly no connection to one another (not all of them traumatized to the point of being catatonic) affirm his existence. I assume he is not in fact a spaghetti monster, but he may don some sort of odd disguise...A note on disguises and such: Dora Lange was in a photo in Episode Two (One?) with guys in rural Mardi Gras outfits, not Klan outfits as many thought. Is there a connection to this and some of the other iconography we've seen in the show?
The show will end saying more about the characters than the crimes. I take writer Nick Pizzolatto at his word that True Detective is more about the characters than the whodunit. His book Galveston is similar (though not as good). I think the heart of this show is in the clash between Rust and Marty (or Rust and Rust, Marty and Marty, Marty and Maggie, etc.). That's where the show's creators seem to have put most of their efforts. I think, like Twin Peaks, we'll end up remembering who these people were much more than what they discovered about a crime.
Alright, this is really long. What do you say?
February 26th, 2014 at 5:57 PM ^
- I agree that the Marty and Rust are not the killers and agree that the show is more straightforward compared to all the theories posted online.
- Agree with daughter or daughters being part of the sotry moving forward.
- The theory that makes the most sense is that the "queen" is chosen at a really young age. That is why we see the picture of Dora Lange surrounded by the 5 at a young age. If you recall the scene with the dolls, the one female doll is surrounded by 5 male dolls. Not sure if that is connected, but it seems like the daughter/s were exposed to it in some way. I guess the "queen" is then sacrificed to the Yellow King at some determined age or time.
February 26th, 2014 at 6:31 PM ^
That does make sense. Shit. Marty's daughter needs to GTFO.
February 26th, 2014 at 6:01 PM ^
February 26th, 2014 at 6:07 PM ^
I think some did early on.
I guess some of his actions in the early episode made you question if he was the killer, but I never really saw it.
February 26th, 2014 at 6:20 PM ^
...to learn that recently too.
February 26th, 2014 at 6:06 PM ^
I need to re-watch everything as the subtle plot points about the murders I've forgotten.
Like mentioned, I feel we'll come away with more of a fascinating character study more than a whodunit.
Great article on Grantland about the most recent episode.
http://grantland.com/hollywood-prospectus/her-looming-shadow-grows-the-…
February 26th, 2014 at 6:07 PM ^
As far as writing and acting, while only being one season and much easier, this show rivals Breaking Bad in terms of how intense it is. Remember when everyone made fun of MM? Not after this show and Dallas Buyer's Club. The guy has just been phenomenal. This isn't probably as fun to watch as BB but it's every bit as intense which is type of show I like.
I have no idea what the ending will be. I do have a question: Was that guy in the gas mask with the machete supposed to be Ledoux? Did I miss something there?
February 26th, 2014 at 6:11 PM ^
Yes that was Ledoux. He was involved in these murders and whatever was happening with the children, but clearly he was not the only one as they have continued.
February 27th, 2014 at 10:25 AM ^
I agree that McConaughey has really evolved as an actor and is excellent here. But Woody Harrelson does his greatest work in TD. He has to cover an immense range and he does it seemessly. The guy has gone from a sitcom type-cast to a serious, powerful actor who has America reeking out of his pores. I can't take my eyes off his face in this show.
I heard that True Detective intends to start out each new season with a completely new cast and a new storyline. Anyone know if this is true?
February 26th, 2014 at 6:10 PM ^
I think is is a fairly straightforward story and I am not expecting any surprising revelations, more like shocking events. If I had to wager a guess there is some sort of cult going on and one of the leaders was the Governor's brother who Rust probably killed.
If someone can explain the preacher turned alcoholic to me I would appreciate it. He worked at a school, found inapprpriate photos in a minister's bible, and was then fired? When Rust talks to the Gov's brother they mentioned someone dying right after being fired. Was that the minister who had the photos?
February 26th, 2014 at 6:19 PM ^
I think the minister (Eli from Boardwalk Empire) was fired - or he quit because he brought attention to the photos and nothing happened. I can't remember which...Tuttle and Rust talk about the deacon to whom Eli (can't remember his True Detective name) reported finding the photos. Tuttle claims he was let go for embezzelment, and Rust notes that he died. Tuttle then implies that he was a drinker. I don't think they ever explicitly talk about the photos. It's also not clear that the photos belonged to the deacon. We just know from Eli that he didn't do anything about them.
February 26th, 2014 at 6:21 PM ^
That was the matter that was handled internally. I'm assuming Rust asked about this because he thinkgs Tuttle had that minister killed. I guess that was done to tie up loose ends or something.
February 26th, 2014 at 6:24 PM ^
Was it the minister's bible? I recall just an old book in the library had the photos. Maybe he started asking the wrong questions and got fired.
Edit: Erik_in_Dayton beat me to it.
February 26th, 2014 at 6:57 PM ^
I think it's pretty heavily implied that the preacher guy became an alcoholic because he lost his faith thanks to the whole incident with the pictures and the fallout thereafter.
After he found the pictures, he thought he was doing the right thing by turning it in and the deacon attacked him for it. Accusing him of taking the photos himself, and being a pedophile. After he proved it wasn't him they basically told him to drop it and shut his mouth. Then he said that all of his revival tents started getting vandalized (hinting it might have been some form of retribution for bringing the pictures to the deacon), and he gave up his ministry.
He made some comment about how the closer he got to god, the more deafening the silence.
February 26th, 2014 at 6:18 PM ^
Just a couple of brief points.
1. I also find it hard to believe Marty would be the killer, given his reaction to beating up the two guys who had sex with his daughter. If doing that would make him puke, kinda hard to buy he could be the killer.
2. Stephen Hawking absolutely is a serial killer.
February 26th, 2014 at 6:23 PM ^
SHHHH....
February 26th, 2014 at 6:19 PM ^
There IS going to be a T.D. Season 2 right? Right?!?!?
February 26th, 2014 at 6:21 PM ^
There will be a season 2, but with different story and characters. I think the director is also going to change.
February 26th, 2014 at 6:25 PM ^
From what I've read, this is correct. It's an ongoing series but the story/characters will change every season. Every season will be a self contained, 8 episode series.
February 26th, 2014 at 6:29 PM ^
Is Pizzolatto going to be the writer? Or is this a thing where HBO selects a new writer/show runner and director for every season
February 26th, 2014 at 6:27 PM ^
*If not, I am sorry. Proceed.
February 26th, 2014 at 6:30 PM ^
Same here. I loved season 1, I thought it was one of the best new shows.
February 26th, 2014 at 6:28 PM ^
I know it says spoilers in the title, but I know there are people who like to go into episodes without watching any previews or reading anything. If you are one of those people, do not read any further.
Description of episode 7 from HBO:
"After Marty is shown a harrowing piece of evidence, he and Cohle forge a truce after years of vitriol, and we learn why Cohle returned to the state in 2010. Hart helps Cohle probe a murky conspiracy of disappearances connected to the Dora Lange murder, a path of connections that leads to the Tuttle family. Hart reconnects with Maggie after years without communication in order to confirm what the police wanted, and perhaps to say goodbye. Concerned that harm might come to him, Maggie pays Cohle a visit at the bar where he's working, but gets a cold shoulder for her efforts. Cohle and Hart uncover a connection to an old colleague and enact a plan to draw him out."
February 26th, 2014 at 6:33 PM ^
By the way, here are some photos to support the connection you think is coming with Marty's daughters. This is the picture of the dolls Marty's daughter was playing with:
Here is a photo of Dora Lang surrounded by five horsmen:
Here is a photo of Rust Cohle carving out figures from beer cans. Notice the yellow stars on the heads. Sorta like a king's crown.
Rust Cohle is an anagram of Horse Cult.
February 26th, 2014 at 6:46 PM ^
February 26th, 2014 at 7:00 PM ^
February 26th, 2014 at 6:48 PM ^
February 26th, 2014 at 6:50 PM ^
I think what you have is more than one killer. No doubt Tuttle is one of them and maybe the Yellow King himself. And I stil think there's a good chance Rust killed Tuttle but with this show, who the hell knows?
February 26th, 2014 at 7:28 PM ^
February 26th, 2014 at 6:50 PM ^
Just have to say that I love this thread and reading everyones theories. Some great insight you guys have. Really looking forward to seeing what is to come in the next episode/thread.
February 26th, 2014 at 6:50 PM ^
At first I thought it was a religious cult, but now I'm convinced it is a child sex slave/prostitution ring disguised as a Satanic cult.
Satanism was a huge deal in the south at that time. You had a bunch of people freaking out about it, thinking it was some sort of pandemic. The whole "Memphis Three" deal went down around that time.
So a group of evil Christians with money, conncections, and power could have easily used that scare to further incite terror (thus giving them more power, seeing as the need for more religious schools/instruction would naturally arise from that panic) while also hiding their operations.
It just seems to make the most sense to me.
February 27th, 2014 at 8:47 AM ^
Good call on the Memphis Three. That incident, or similar ones at the time, must have had some type of impact on the storyline.
February 26th, 2014 at 6:54 PM ^
If you really want to see something from the truth-is-stranger-than-fiction files, check out this comparison between True Detective and an actual series of killings.
http://www.uproxx.com/tv/2014/02/true-detective-jeff-davis-8/
February 26th, 2014 at 7:03 PM ^
February 26th, 2014 at 7:04 PM ^
Okay, last one. I swear. Was the landscaper from episode 3 the scarred "spaghetti" man?
February 26th, 2014 at 7:09 PM ^
There is some speculation that the spaghetti monster/ man with the scars is the lawnmower operator from episode three. I think the school's lawn he was mowing had a connection to the Tuttle ministry, plus his appearance is pretty close to the witness description.
February 26th, 2014 at 10:46 PM ^
February 26th, 2014 at 8:27 PM ^
The post or comments, but man is this a dark movie.
The acting is incredible, the suspense is palpitating and it is difficult to see where it is heading.
I have never seem anyone toke a cigarette like Cole does............most smokers just inhale and exhale, but Cole is toking the ciggie like it is a bomb doobie.
An interesting dichotomy is True Dectective and Banshee, with the latter more light hearted and a lot of sex. That is if you don't mind folks putting the victims through the meat grinder.
February 26th, 2014 at 11:30 PM ^
Marty may or may not be one of the killer, however, I found ties to religion and the type of women Marty associates himself with parallel with Dora's death.
- The Women: Based on his reaction to the girl cheating on him and meeting the guys that messed around his with daughter, he definitly shows he has the rage to do some pretty crazy shit. Cohle also describes the type of girl Dora would've been in the first episode. The description sounds a lot like the girls Marty hooks up with. Also, note the conversation and reaction Marty had with the whore boss. She either read him pretty well or knew him from before.
- Ties Religion: Rust invokes religion during episode 3 (i believe) and we see Marty freak out. In his defense it was dark, but it was a touchy subject for him. We also find that Marty found religion during his marriage from his ex-wife interview and if you play poker, you'll see for a second Marty shows his poker face when they bring up Tuttle death. He also leaves the room after he finds out that they believe Cohle is behind it somehow (I think he really left because he was involved behind Tuttle death and was going to let one of the other members know that Cohle was on to them). My point here is that religion has a big part of the dora's death and I see Marty hiding his views on it very well... I also think thats a reason why Ledux was shot. He said he saw Cohle in his dreams... maybe the guy was on LSD or something when Marty was trying to warn the others about Rust...also its ironic that they get a lead on the iron "crusaders" and it just so happens that they had cop uniforms and a suicide mission the same day Cohn visits them?
February 26th, 2014 at 11:43 PM ^
February 26th, 2014 at 11:54 PM ^
okay... maybe I was tripping on LSD.
Either way, very excited with the show and how it will end!
February 27th, 2014 at 12:48 AM ^
In the preview for next week's show, Cohle says to Marty, "There's something you're gonna need to look at." Cut away and we then see Marty looking at a computer screen in the background while Cohle faces the camera. Marty gets upset and yells, "No!"
I'm wondering if Cohle stumbled on a picture of Marty's daughter during his own investigation and that's what he has on his computer screen. That could be what motivated Cohle to come back and kill Tuttle.
I dunno. Just makin' shit up at this point.