Yes, Even More Ohio State
Is it possible to write things not about Ohio State's rapidly unraveling sweater? There is a hypothetical world in which this is the case, but it is not this one. Almost literally every day some new mortar lands in the Ohio State compliance department and detonates.
Some detonations are widely hyped and a little disappointing. Others are stealthy-like, come when you're watching Clint Dempsey add "…bitch" to the end of every sentence (and score!) and are like whoah. Blockquote unnecessary but present:
Terrelle Pryor, who announced through his attorney Tuesday that he would bypass his senior season at Ohio State, made thousands of dollars autographing memorabilia in 2009-10, a former friend who says he witnessed the transactions has told "Outside the Lines."
The signings for cash, which would be a violation of NCAA rules, occurred a minimum of 35 to 40 times, netting Pryor anywhere from $20,000 to $40,000 that year, the former friend says. The source spoke to ESPN under the condition that his face not be aired on TV and that his name not be published.
As far as unsubstantiated anonymous sources go this one comes with a guy sporting an "infickellwetrust" handle on the eBays that was until recently "intresselwetrust" who sells all kinds of sports memorabilia including that from a lot of Buckeyes. So… wow. Get that paper, ignore the sense you are a walking self-parody. (Game used Henson cleats just 120!)
Does this add anything substantial to Ohio State's mounting pile of accusations or is it just a pile-on? Well, it has excised Terrelle Pryor from next year's season, leaving Ohio State to pick between Brooks Bollinger Memorial Eighth Year Senior Joe Bauserman, who's like 30 now or something and an assortment of underclassmen of whom true freshman Braxton Miller is the most touted.
But that's in the past, as Rich Rodriguez might have it. As for the future, this specific accusation is one that sounds scary but seems less likely to have a paper trail a compliance program can be expected to trace. Unlike the other accusations there's no email sitting in Tressel's inbox or compliance audit five years ago that was basically ignored or guy in charge of the equipment that should have one of those inventory things.
But while this specific thing may or may not add to the NCAA dogpile, if Brooks is correct about this…
In addition to Pryor’s past NCAA transgressions, today I confirmed that Ohio State was recently cited by NCAA enforcment officials for dozens of payments Pryor received in past years from a Columbus sports memorabilia dealer that are considered outside of NCAA rules.
The NCAA violations were discovered when the name of the local memorabilia dealer, Dennis Talbott, was seen on checks Pryor was depositing in his personal bank account.
…and personal bank accounts are being examined (probably with the threat of terminated eligibility hanging over the request), well, items have acquired a distinct nature of being in reality.
And then there's the stuff already known
Braves and Birds makes a point I've been trying to make but haven't done so as eloquently:
We are coming off of a season in which several teams lost key players because of suspensions for improper benefits. Ohio State’s head coach (and arguably their compliance department, which seems unable to find evidence of wrongdoing despite media outlets finding stories like candies tumbling out of a piñata) ignored evidence of similar violations on the part of his players. Doesn’t the NCAA have to reward schools like Georgia and North Carolina for being proactive in dealing with improper benefits by showing that the alternative is significantly worse? The NCAA needs to hammer Ohio State and not for punitive reasons or because the Bucks derived a major competitive advantage from its players trading memorabilia (that point is debatable), but rather to send a message to its members that self-reporting is a big deal. The whole system, which most closely resembles a rickety dam trying to hold back a flood of money headed towards the athletes who create it, depends on honest self-reporting.
It's hard to look at the USC violations, which were tied to the Trojan staff based on one two-and-a-half minute phone call to the running backs coach, and not see something worse coming down the pipe for OSU. USC:
- Had one player implicated for an awful lot of money.
- "Should have known" based on Todd McNair's Fisher-like desire not to know.
- Laughably stonewalled.
OSU:
- Has one player implicated for a lot of money plus a half-dozen more confirmed NCAA violators plus an alleged two dozen more.
- Absolutely did know because the head coach was directly informed.
- Laughably stonewalled and, as a bonus, got the NCAA to declare its players eligible for the Sugar Bowl.
Unless the raw amount of money funneled to Reggie Bush is a significant factor (and I can't see why that would be since the difference here appears to be between low six digits and mid-fives) it seems hard to make a case that Ohio State shouldn't get penalties harsher than USC's—significantly harsher. I'd be interested to see if anyone can make a Devil's Advocate case that what's currently happening in Columbus is less severe than the Bush imbroglio. Pretty much the only person who's tried is Drew Sharp, and he did not do well* even considering he's Drew Sharp.
Seriously. The gauntlet is thrown down: can anyone make the case Ohio State should get off lighter than USC?
*[nonfreep]
The NCAA (or the B1G) could take away OSU's TV revenue without banning them form TV.
I'm wondering if we're looking at a new benchmark on the NCAA Infractions Meter? The scope of this thing just keeps continuing to grow and grow and grow to the point that osu may find themselves awarded a new punishment, perhaps something just short of the death penalty....?
At this point the entire NCAA model is being put on trial by the media-- they've got to assert their authority, regardless of whatever revenue the scarlet and gray bring in. They may not have a choice but to burn the empire to the ground.
And yes, as a member of the MGoCommunity you are fully sanctioned to laugh.
Until yesterday, I think one could have reasonably argued that the OSU situation isn't much worse than USC's. But now, if the Talbott angle proves to be true -- if -- that's the killshot. Because it indicates a longstanding cover-up of gross NCAA violations.
Pryor making a killing with merchandise dealers is on par with the Reggie Bush thing. But whereas there's no evidence that Bush's head coach or AD knew about the transactions, OSU's coach and AD did know about Pryor's -- and covered it up. (I recognize that USC's brass should have known, but that's a different story.)
Plus: It wasn't just Pryor. There were many offenses by many Buckeyes -- including the head coach -- over many years.
Plus: That OSU boasts the country's largest compliance office only makes it worse. OSU cannot claim ignorance or staffing issues (as USC did, albeit weakly). The compliance office, in this scenario, amounts to a sham.
The NCAA will tell Gee and Smith to take a deep breath, bend over, and touch their toes.
Jim Tressel is a really really nice guy who visits orphans in the hospital, is openly spiritual, is still married to his first wife who is rather manish looking, does nice stuff for people which the media ignores because they like scandal and no one thought he was a cheater.
Pete Carroll is a smug poodle who, reportedly, was living in Malibu with his super hot, graduate student girlfriend rather than with his family and once asked Jim Harbaugh "what's your deal man?" and 'everyone' knew he was cheating.
QED USC gets nuked and Tressel is cannonized.
Lets stop beating around the bush, the real question isnt whose violations were worse, its whose punishment will be worse
To which i submit it is going to depend on the number of seasons vacated. Its starting to look like multiple vacated seasons is a possibility, due to Pryor(my pantsless side is thinking all 10 years of Tressel). Thats could make a HUGE difference on the rest of their punishment
Can we stop with the whole "self-reporting" defense with Ohio State. They did not self-report anything. if they did, Tressel would still have a job and the Tat5 wouldn't have played for four games last season. By definition you can't "self-report" after allegations are known.
I'll give it a shot, but this gets harder by the day (as someone else said, it was easier a couple of days ago):
1. Unlike USC, OSU self reported something. The Tat 5 and the Tressel emails were self reported by OSU. The Bush stuff was all from Yahoo.
2. Albeit late, OSU did get rid of their coach
3. The noise to information ratio is very high. I'm not sure there's much actionable information from the Dispatch car article or the SI article.
4. I don't think OSU is stonewalling as appears to be the case. They're just incompetent and/or overwhelmed.
5. Again, it's very reactionary, but OSU is trying (fired coach, forced Pryor to go away, etc). USC's Garret was very confrontational.
I think OSU's hopes rest on #5, but I can't imagine the penalty will be less than USC.
To be honest, I'm not sure how "controllable" OSU, or more specifically, Columbus is.
Columbus is a big city. All of Ohio's sports franchises suck to some degree. The entire city is fully "invested" in the program. It would almost be best for OSU to take a few years off, let the citizens of Columbus find another hobby or two, and come back in a couple of years with a clean slate.
Awesome coverage. The hits just keep on coming for OSU, and I for one think it is great. Check out eleven warriors, The blog has completely turned on pryor, yet the comments are still pro pryor...lol Also there is a tweet from zach boren about how awesome a teammate TP was...yeah right, so awesome he helped ruin the program for a few years. I guess intelligence is a boren family trait.
Didn't the agent who gave Bush the money end up suing him and his family for it while the NCAA just sat there and waited a few years to give USC the notice of allegations?
My main point for why USC is worse is simple: they hired Ed Orgeron
an infamous tweet posted by Pryor back when Tatgate was starting to blow up with regard to Tressel's emails? The short-lived post, removed within hours or even minutes, suggested TP was receiving cash instead of tats. It looked like he meant to respond to a particular follower and not publicly (I believe that's called a "Weiner" nowdays).
Anyone else remember this? From maybe Feb. or March?
Per VolsBitch.com I found the first Google reference.
It was "TPeezy2 Terrelle Pryor
It's funny if y'all actually knew the story. I didn't receive free tattoos. I took money which I'm dealing w my wrongdoings"
From 14 April. Search Twitter for T Pryor, Twitter, as we all know from AWeiner, never deletes tweets and you can even find deleted tweets in searches for @TPeezy2
Nice recall.
When do the taxmen get involved? I imagine they've got some pretty impressive powers of discovery at their disposal, what with all the alleged non-monetary benefits going TP's way
If they wipe out the last two seasons because of Pryor, Boren will still have zero wins in the series.
The investigation took years. Fans were waiting for years for the ruling and punishment, while the HC was still there. The worst part of it all was the waiting. The punishment is done and in 3 years everything will be back to normal for USC, so they say.
I don't believe OSU will get off lighter than USC, but if it took the NCAA 4 to 5 years to investigate and put a case against USC (for R. Bush 2003-2005), what are we talking about here for Ohio State where transgressions may have occurred over a much longer duration (2001 to 2011) including the HC and multiple players?
My view of the situation:
1. We're probably all vastly underestimating OSU's likely final punishment from the NCAA for all of this.
2. The NCAA is incompetent, inefficient and inconsistent. The USC investigation serves as unequivocal proof of this fact. And they let Pryor and the players play in the Sugar Bowl, don't forget. No one can be confident that the final NCAA verdict and punishment of OSU will be sure, fair and consistent.
3. FWIW, USC and Kiffin are still killing it on the recruiting trail:
"Seriously. The gauntlet is thrown down: can anyone make the case Ohio State should get off lighter than USC?"
You act like I actually want to make that argument. No thanks. I'm good. Insert popcorn GIF.
Dont know if this has been mentioned yet....but "intresselwetrust" er..."infickellwetrust" has deleted every one of the hundreds of items that he had for sale last night on Ebay.
It is hilariously funny that when the goin get tough....these buckeyes run.... Vest did it, Pryor and now the memorabilia clown.
The main argument would have to be that USC's case involved a sports agent (actually a wannabe, but still), which is very clearly against the rules. All of the OSU stuff is grey area material, and can be answered with "the players didn't know bartering memorabilia was against the rules" and "technically, getting a loaner car is not against the rules" and "he signed the stuff, but he was just doing it for a friend and he told us he wasn't getting paid -- poor judgment, but not against the rules -- we had no idea he was getting paid, so we didn't report it."
[Oops -- not meant as a reply.]
So 11Warriors starts off with "Everybody Leaves" ... with tatted sleeves.
The better part? 54% of respondents of a poll on 11Warriors believe a combination of "CFL talent at best + Will never play a down of NFL football + Other"
Wouldn't someone be expected to track the shoulder pads, helmets, etc that Pryor supposedly sold? It's one thing if he's selling stuff the program gives to him, but I really doubt anyone gets to take home their shoulder pads (do they?). Those things are seriously expensive and it's not like teams need to have tons of extras just sitting around.
he supposedly stole them.
Here's the question we need to consider: Does the fact that OSU tried to police itself by ordering Talbott to distance himself from the program outweigh that they failed to report the violations to the NCAA?
Is the latter more negative than the former is positive?
The Dept's (or Program's) order to Talbott to stay away would appear to be compelling evidence that tOSU (beyond Tressel) was aware of problems with memorabilia (even if not the tat's per se) long before the problems surfaced in December. That strongly implies there was a deliberate cover up of the real facts, and negates the purpose and outcome of tOSU's internal investigation. The NCAA could (and should) contend that the internal investigation was itself an attempt to hide the most damning evidence and scope of wrong-doing as well point the NCAA investigators away from further examination, and the self-imposed sanctions an attempt to sweep the incident under the rug. It's a stretch, but the NCAA could say that the sheer volume of self-reported minor violations were, in fact, part of a rouse to hide a pattern of massive, major rules violations going back for most of the decade.
It could be seen as similar to Nixon's Attorney General John Mitchell investigating the Watergate break-in and cover-up, when in fact, he had a major role in planning and executing both.
I love this guy-
I love him for jerking around Michigan in recruiting and sticking with that school in Ohio.
I love him for not giving a shit from day 1, and continuing it to the bitter end.
I love him for doing what Clarett, Troy Smith, and all the rest couldn't manage to find a way to do, no matter how hard they tried.
Thanks TP. Keep up the good work (especially if you have any parting gifts....)
to me. I mean, as a public institution, it's irresponsible to not clamp down on equipment theft.
In 2006 there was this article from the Springfield News Sun about Ohio State equipment manager, Lewis VanHoose.
"Inside the equipment room
Players are given two away and two home jerseys for the season, unless a jersey is damaged beyond repair.
Anything worn by members of the team, coaches or other staff must be made by Nike, which holds a contract with Ohio State's athletic department.
VanHoose is responsible for cleaning the helmets every Sunday. The players are given a practice helmet and game helmet.
The shirts and hats made for bowl championship are not handled by Ohio State. Bowl officials and the NCAA take care of ordering and designing the apparel. VanHoose and his staff are responsible for dispensing the stuff after a game, but never see the apparel if the Buckeyes lose."
Here's an off-the-wall thought: at what point might the U.S. Justice Department and/or the FBI get involved in this? Considering that the DOJ is already looking into the BCS and the FBI into the drug-dealing tattoo artist, could they expand the scope to look into the shenanigans at tOSU, including potential misuse of public funds (which might be more of a state matter than federal), fraud, and so on?
Another hypothesis: could the fear of such an outcome be the real reason that tOSU is not forthcoming with documentation? In other words, it's not the NCAA that worries tOSU, but the possibility of one or more criminal complaints at the state or federal levels?
I really hope the FBI doesn't decide to investigate this stuff. That would be a waste of public money, IMO. Considering the OSU AD probably gives money back to the university each year vice take money, it would be difficult to even hypothetically say the AD was wasting the state's cash.
I'm thoroughly convinced that 90% of the reason for the Blue Album's awesomeness is Matt Sharp's badass bass tone. Seriously!
[/randomcuzofthesweatersong]
tis the season for roasted buckeyes.
they are done.
One more jackass in media sez "Tressel took a bullet" gonna bust the first fat ass I see in Buckeye hat.
That hypocritical wolf in sheeps clothing made a wreck of biblical proportions in OSU's program.
Tressel shat on his team, his religion, his school. But he can find solace in the loving arms of Brent Musberger. They can get a nice room in the Poconos...
He says in his article:
"But there's an important point lost in the rush to bury the Buckeyes that bears repeating. Despite all appearances of decorum run amok, all the NCAA asks of its member institutions in these situations is to stay out in front of the matter. Don't obfuscate: Investigate. Admit you screwed up. Hit yourself over the head with the hammer first. Even those that overtly lie and cheat will still get leniency if they come across as forthright in their internal probe.
Ohio State's doing that.
USC didn't."
Hit yourself over the head with a hammer first? How has OSU done that? They fired their coach who would have been forced out by the NCAA anyway. Whoopie! They have said in the press that they are looking to make their compliance regulations and processes better.... says the crew who has all of NCAA law enforcement staring at them!
I'd say I'm surprised by this, but it is Drew Sharp so... no, I'm not surprised.
But I bet it won't be much worse either. Why? Because, first of all, unless I'm mistaken the NCAA has a four-year statute of limitations on these matters, so Clarret and Smith era problems are not admissable.
Second, I think the NCAA will want to punish OSU in a way that kills their prospects for a few years, but does not want to destroy one of its highest profile, and biggest money-making programs. USC's sanctions are a model for that.
I have read somewhere on this site (don't hold me to when or where or who wrote it) that the 4-year limitation does not apply if a pattern of rule-breaking extends beyond the limit. There may be other exceptions as well.
in response to your question. I have read all the posts in this thread and I'm proud to say there are a bunch of smart, thinking, funny individuals here. However, the answer to your question is simple, and the answer is unassailable: NO
That was a great post. Thanks : )
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