Coaches' Clinic Tea Leaves: Offense Comment Count

Brian

Michigan just let in all manner of heathens to observe a couple practices, ping various coaches for information, and take in a Saturday scrimmage; naturally, this has created a ton of internet chatter. Also naturally, large portions of it conflict with other portions of it. There's a faction of super insiders on Rivals declaring Denard Robinson to be a complete disaster and one focused here proclaiming him to be Pat White—except fast! Tate Forcier is either looking like a "walk-on" or the obvious starter, and Devin Gardner is either a total n00b or Vince Young—except fast!

So… yeah. I don't know. Here's my contribution to the melee. First, a non-crippling version of the latest Inside Michigan Football featuring all quarterbacks doing something awesome:

Whenever I hear one of the freshmen speak I get annoyed at all the Dorsey stuff. Yeah, Michigan is totally turning into Jimmy Johnson's Miami.

Anyway, in addition to the posters who got bumped to the front page over the weekend, MGoBlog had a couple of sources who took in the activity late last week. Observations gleaned:

Terminology, or: The Quick And The Dead

One of the toughest things to do as a guy who tries to figure out football and communicate it as a layman is figure out what to call something. Every time I decide to call something X, well meaning folk tell me it should be Y or Z. I tend to apologetically ignore them just so things are relatively clear for readers.

However, if the coaches are all calling something one thing and it's not counter-intuitive I'll go with it. So:

  • Michigan is calling the dual SS in the 3-3-5 "spur" (strongside) and "bandit" (weakside). Some 3-3-5 teams make no distinction between these guys, but it appears that Michigan will flip these guys strong and weak. This leaves the bandit as the guy who will be tested in the occasional deep half, about which more later.
  • The coaches were actually calling the deep safety "strong" for a while but they've reverted to calling him "free." There are good football-related reasons for that weird nomenclature but since they're gone, whatever. I'll return to calling Cam Gordon and other guys who line up there free safeties.
  • The north-south MINOR RAGE run that Michigan's used to good effect the past couple years is something I've been calling "veer," which has been the nomenclature that's drawn the most protests. Michigan calls this their "belly" series.

Spinner: dead. Quick: dead. With this jargon we will ascend to the pillars of knowledge.

denard-robinson-practice Denard Is Not Specious, Unless He Is

My initial reaction to the Denard Robinson hype was the same as Doctor Saturday, who has lumped Tate-Denard-Devin into a list of "specious spring quarterback controversies," but both observers gave tentative, caveat-laden nods to Robinson as the starting quarterback. The difference between last year and this year is vast. That falls just short of incredible since Robinson arrived without any ability to even run the zone read. Many of his plays were Incredibly Surprising Quarterback Zone Stretches run from an empty backfield. Robinson's high school coaching amounted to nil, so it's obvious that he would have a bigger leap forward than Forcier and his years of intensive training.

Robinson is still light years away from Forcier as a passer—his ability to "see and understand the field remains limited"—but in the open field he is ludicrous and now that he's gotten the hang of the zone read he gets in that space frequently. Craig Roh on Robinson:

"I hate Denard on the football field," Roh said. "I love him outside of football, but on the football field, he's just such a nuisance. The quarterbacks here are too fast, and Denard, I just can't catch him. It's ridiculous."

Observer A, a defensively oriented guy, said "as a coordinator you watch him come around the corner on the naked boot and you say uh-oh." Another high school coach told observer B that Denard "runs into traffic just to make defenders look silly." Robinson's athleticism will force defenses to overplay that threat and open up other opportunities.

Tate Forcier remains Tate. One of Michigan's coaches praised Tate's "great strides" in his understanding of the playbook, but what you see is what you get with Forcier: accurate on the run, good scrambler, shortish, meh arm strength. Meanwhile, the undercurrent of coaching discontent with his dedication as a freshman has added another pebble:

"Maybe some of the things that happened early in the season happened a little easier for him," Rodriguez said. "It kind of felt right to him. At the end of the year, he played more like a true freshman at times. And he got banged up a little bit and his concentration wasn't as sharp.

"As coaches, it's our job to make sure he maintains that focus."

The most worrisome thing I hear about Forcier is actually a positive thing related about Gardner. Gardner sets in the pocket and has less of a tendency to start running around than either of the other two quarterbacks, which allows him to go deep more regularly. The offense is a lot of broken plays with both of the short guys. While that's obvious with Robinson, I was hoping Forcier would get more comfortable throwing in the pocket.

Despite that, it will be all but impossible to pull Forcier in favor of Robinson full time when their skill sets are so divergent; a platoon beckons.

As for Devin Gardner, raves about his "incredible feel for the game" from QB coach Rod Smith were relayed via both observers. Other spring hype: "huge," "covers ground without seeming to move" like Vince Young and Terrelle Pryor, and… wait for it… "well ahead of both at this stage." Gardner is a "gym rat" who will happily spend all day watching film. However, he's "nowhere near" having a grasp of the offense and his throwing is erratic. When he's good, he can make deep throws with touch unlike either of the other two, but his overall accuracy lags because of the mechanical issues. His delivery isn't consistent yet. This will not be an enormous surprise to anyone who saw the difference between Camp Devin and Degraded Devin over the course of this high school football season.

This position remains a mess that will not be resolved until UConn, and frankly I'd be surprised to see a single game this year where Michigan goes exclusively with one quarterback. With two polar opposites at the spot, the nominal starter may depend on the relative strength of the opposing defense.

That's just this year. The vibe I got was that Gardner is the future of the position. Maybe not this year, but all bets are off in 2011. The position was described as "loaded," albeit young.

Running Back Battle

Zero clarity here as well. As mentioned earlier, Stephen Hopkins was impressive to Observer B; A was pretty noncommital about the tailbacks. Mike Cox has slipped for whatever reason. Observer B on Hopkins:

The guy is just a freaking monster and he breaks tackles. Now, I can’t say he can block, or knows the offense or can catch the ball. Plus, he fumbled twice (once he was hit at the handoff, on the other instance it might have been the QB’s issue). But man is he a tough tackle on the belly if he can get (even) a yard of momentum.

Shaw and Toussaint seemed like better runners than Cox, as well. This is another spot that will lack clarity until deep into fall unless Vincent Smith (who is jogging but limping badly) comes back fully healthy and establishes himself as the guy.

At fullback, Mark Moundros is playing mostly at linebacker, leaving McColgan the starting FB. He seems okay. Made a couple catches, made a couple blocks. Fullback isn't a huge priority.

jerald-robinson-canton Wide Receivers

Still hard to tell much of anything with two of the top three guys on the outside missing and Michigan focusing on the short stuff, but the freshman making the most of his spring is Jerald Robinson, who is "rangy" and "knows how to get his body in position." That's similar to assessments coming out of his strong summer camp performance.

Jeremy Jackson is also on par with expectations: smart, good routes, great hands, approximately as fast as a tight end. Could this be the guy who actually warrants the incessant Jason Avant comparisons I make? Miller didn't impress in the brief window provided.

Meanwhile, the guys in the slot are reputed to be extremely slippery. Terrance Robinson and Jeremy Gallon are described as "better than a pretty good Big Ten player" in Odoms as long as they're catching the ball. This is not assured: Robinson's hands were the main reason he didn't see the field last year and Observer B praised Odoms's hands while complaining about too many drops in the slot. Coaches were talking up Robinson as a potential contributor, FWIW.

Offensive Line

Offensive line being an esoteric position, I don't have much other than the general positivity even absent David Molk. Taylor Lewan could use another 15 pounds but is still holding down left tackle. Perry Dorrestein is nicked up, which may explain the move. More than likely this is an opportunity Lewan won't pass up and Dorrestein is going to have to battle for the right tackle spot. Insert now-default Jake Long comparisons here. Lewan's not likely to be the #1 pick in the NF L draft but his career trajectory is zipping along at the most optimistic level possible.

The most encouraging thing on the line is the depth. Even with Washington and Dorrestein nicked up there's almost a solid two-deep of players who Michigan could throw on the field without panic:

1. Lewan/Schilling/Khoury/Omameh/Huyge
2. Barnum/Ferrara/Mealer/?/Schofield

Getting Molk back will give Michigan a buffer of three or four competent backup offensive linemen.

Miscellaneous

Remember last year's complaint about Michigan potentially tipping their run plays based on the position of the quarterback? This was the setup position on a zone stretch…

zone-read-stretch

…and this was Michigan's belly (which this blog called "veer") series:

zone-read-belly

From the sideline shot it's pretty obvious what's going on here. QB in front of RB: north-south. QB behind RB: east-west. I'm not entirely sure a defense is going to be aware enough to make an adjustment based on this—it's a lot easier to tell when you're way far away on a sideline—but it can't help.

The coaches apparently have the same concern. They've moved away from this paradigm in favor of something they believe will disguise their intent better. What it is I don't know. It sounds like at the very least the QB is going to move late, like a split second before the snap, if not after. This strikes me as something that Debord would never do.

(FWIW: They did try to mix it up some after practicing for Illinois' zone read veer—which I think is, like, really a veer until someone corrects me on it in the next 60 seconds—but that wasn't successful and was abandoned. I wouldn't write it off entirely, FWIW. It's possible a newly capable Denard Robinson makes that crazy effective.)

Defense tomorrow.

Comments

08mms

April 13th, 2010 at 1:52 PM ^

I don't think its a great dynasty plan, but on a developing team that runs an offense with a higher risk of QB injury I think it can't be bad to be burnishing up a couple of young guys with on the field experience.

jg2112

April 13th, 2010 at 2:07 PM ^

although, your theory that spread offense QBs get injured more than traditional pro-style QBs has been repeatedly debunked through research that has been posted on this site. In fact, the research suggests that spread QBs get injured slightly less often than pro-style QBs.

His Dudeness

April 13th, 2010 at 1:39 PM ^

It worries me that our coaches took an entire year (possibly two) to notice we are tipping two of our ten or so plays. I get worried about a lot of things, though.

His Dudeness

April 13th, 2010 at 4:24 PM ^

Call me crazy, Grumpy but didn't we almost lose to NW in 1998 because our center was tipping our plays? Seems to me if you know a run is up the gut (belly) rather than to the outside (veer) you (the defense) could audible at the line and, you know, have a better chance of out-executing your opponent.

RagingBean

April 13th, 2010 at 5:11 PM ^

The defenses literally do not have time to read and audible this kind of stuff. Maybe a player or two will notice, and I'm sure the opposing coaches pick up on it, but if the MLB is running around signaling an audible when the QB and HB get set he will quickly have one of those players running by him.

RagingBean

April 13th, 2010 at 11:28 PM ^

Like I said, it's noticeable and if they have some way of making it less so great. But I also believe that this is something that is NOT terrifically important on the field. It's a give, but it's certainly not a give like the FB lateral motion of the Debord offense. The alignment in RR's offense doesn't get set until just before the snap, which means the defense on the field has little to no time to notice or react to it.

blue in ak

April 13th, 2010 at 1:40 PM ^

That video was great. Except for the fumble, the team is looking pretty darned impressive. And the kids interviewed are awesome. What classy smart dudes. I think things are looking up for sure.

goody

April 13th, 2010 at 1:49 PM ^

Denard turning into a real dual threat QB Gardner show why everyone couldn't wait to get him here Lewan locking down the LT position Position battles turning into actual 2-deep depth charts RB continuing to be strength for a Michigan Football team Can't wait for Saturday and really can't wait for Sept.

Argyle

April 13th, 2010 at 1:50 PM ^

As much as I enjoy the spirit of over-optimistic fandom, I value Brian's measured analysis every time. The team seems to be improving at every position, however, which has me both please and increasingly excited for September.

steve sharik

April 13th, 2010 at 1:51 PM ^

...in some of these cuts (especially the first few) how the QB will move forward (and then set) pre-snap. (Moving forward while the ball is being snapped is illegal motion.)

colin

April 14th, 2010 at 1:14 AM ^

is definitely a fullback type and Rodriguez's belly series that Brian was talking about definitely works best with a beer truck type of back. So when Rich says he doesn't use a fullback, I think he means the NFL sort that never catches a pass or gets a carry a la Kevin Dudley.

maizenbluedevil

April 13th, 2010 at 4:59 PM ^

I think I see what you're referring to... It basically looks like White is just sort of chillin in the backfield, and doesn't really get set into position until right before the ball is snapped.... So it's not like he's "changing" positions pre-snap, or trying to fake out the D per se, just that he's not committing to a position until the last possible moment and thus not tipping his hat regarding the play. Yeah, this is one of the nuances that hopefully our QBs will be better w/ this year after a year in the system. Also, yes, PW was awesome.... Loved watching that video b/c can't wait until our O is at that level!! Also, one of the things WVU did really well is on the zone reads, *both* the QB and RB finished out the play whether they had the ball or not, which I would imagine doesn't throw off the D all the time, but does sometimes and just keeps them on their toes. Massoli/Oregon also did a masterful job of this last year... hopefully this is something we can improve on.

Hannibal.

April 13th, 2010 at 2:36 PM ^

I just can't believe that a healthy Tate will ever not be the starter. His passing game was excellent for a freshman and he was so far ahead of Robinson in that department that it's going to take Robinson years to catch up, if he ever does. I would love for Forcier to round out his game with read option and I would love for Robinson to round out his game with good passing. But if I had to choose between "Great passer, OK runner, meh read option" and "Meh passer, great runner, good option", I'll take the great passer every time. The great passer opens up the entire field vertically and horizontally.

zlionsfan

April 13th, 2010 at 3:23 PM ^

then that would make more sense to me, but if he isn't displaying good touch on deep throws and can't stay in the pocket, he's not really putting any deep pressure on the defense ... and without a reasonable threat of the option, you end up with the Purdue passing game with Curtis Painter at QB, only with more talent. (Tiller/Hope boxed themselves into a corner with that offense: they liked the spread but couldn't get speed plus hands at any WR position, so they mixed in some option, except Painter is slower afoot than Peyton Manning and about half as accurate in the air, which left them with meh offense no matter what they did. cf: spread with Brees at QB.) I think it's more likely that Robinson will develop enough of a touch on the longer passes to become a threat in all aspects than that Forcier will develop speed or height. Of course, I am hopting that Forcier develops into Brady 2 and Robinson develops into Vince Young 2.

SouthU

April 13th, 2010 at 3:27 PM ^

Given descriptions of spring practice thus far, I think Gardner has to get game experience this year, and fairly early. If Tate gets banged up, someone who is something of a passing threat must be ready to play. While it sounds like Gardner still has mechanical issues, it also sounds like he's already way in front of Denard in throwing downfield. And Gardner's not so shabby running the ball himself.

jrt336

April 13th, 2010 at 3:37 PM ^

I think he should redshirt. Why burn it? He needs to fix his mechanics, which doesn't happen overnight. He only knows a fraction of the playbook compared to Tate and Denard. If one of Tate/Denard got injured, he could play, but I don't see him being better than both of those two. I'd rather have him be a RS freshman and have 4 years of eligibility next year while pushing for the job.

SouthU

April 13th, 2010 at 4:31 PM ^

I'm obviously not advocating for wasting a year of eligibility for Gardner, but I think he will be needed to win some games this year -- whether it's because of an injury or because of (hopefully temporary) ineffectiveness of Tate/Denard. I doubt that he'll be behind Denard re: the playbook by fall (he's here in the spring, and he has much more QB experience than Denard did in H.S.). If Tate won games last year as a true frosh, why can't Gardner? By all spring practice accounts, he is the only one of the 3 QBs who doesn't "panic" and take off out of the pocket unnecessarily. I think he'll be in the mix.

jrt336

April 13th, 2010 at 5:05 PM ^

He will most certainly be behind DRob in the playbook. DRob's been here for what, 9 months longer? You learn a lot in 9 months, especially the first nine months. DG may have been coached better, but he it's college. It's not high school anymore. It will take a while before he gets used to the higher level of talent. We will most likely be a bad team if Garnder is needed to win games.

markusr2007

April 13th, 2010 at 3:40 PM ^

I'm excited about the UM offense. Michigan went from godawful to decent in one year last fall. They should be even better this year. Just by limiting turnovers and yardage losses all of the sudden Michigan is probably fielding one of the better offenses in the conference, if not the country. I don't really care who's at QB or whether they are befuddling defensive ends on option plays or staying in the pocket and destroy safeties. Move the chains and make opponents pay for not accounting for everyone. The offense will be fine. Like most fans right now, my eyes are on the UM defense. I'm not sure what to make of matters for 2010 given the personnel losses of Graham, Brown and Warren, but faster players and an easier scheme should help. I'm still trying to reconcile just how far away Greg Robinson's defense was last year to how Penn State (Tom Bradley) and Ohio State (Jim Heacock) have been playing defense the last 5 years. When will Michigan catch up to that level?

bronxblue

April 13th, 2010 at 3:41 PM ^

My chief concern with the Robinson-Tate debate is that neither guy seems willing to really stay in the pocket and use the threat of the run as a way to buy more time for the downfield passing game. Last year you saw Forcier sometimes bait a guy near the line to jump as a way to open up the inside passing lanes, but rarely did it lead to more than dump-offs. So far this spring (and this is based largely on the reports and videos found on the site), both guys seems intent on running if the first and second options are not open, which is a recipe for more one (or both!) guys being injured halfway through the year. I love what Robinson can do out there in open space, but if his passing is still well behind Tate's and Tate is getting universal "mehs", he won't be getting open much against the better defenses in the Big 10. And if Tate is not able to utilize both the run and pass effectively, I don't see how he'll stay on the field. I guess my point is that either we need to see some real improvements from both of these guys (and no, Robinson going from ahhh!!!! to competent in the passing game doesn't do it), I think we will have to scale back our expectations going into the year.

SysMark

April 13th, 2010 at 4:07 PM ^

Great to see RR has a high standard for recruits both on and off the field - they present themselves well. One thing that jumps out at me and I am really glad to see it, is the emphasis on ball security, especially with the quarterbacks. Gardner in particular I noticed immediately gets the ball into the "high and tight" position when he runs. This is the same technique that got a lot of attention when Tom Coughlin used it to convert Tiki Barber from the biggest fumbler in the NFL to practically a non-fumbler, and one of the league's most productive backs, in one off-season. This was a problem last year with Forcier and it is nice to see they are focused on it.