OT: Can Ken Holland Please Just Go Away Now?
What we got for Vanek / Still having half the cap hit on our hands is just unacceptable:
EDIT: I realize keeping half the salary means only having 1.3 mil on the books for the rest of this season, which doesn't really amount to anything but the cash. I'm more upset becasue teams are looking at Vanek as renting a solid contributor to make a strong push for / make some noise in the postseason. He should bring a second and a third for this year's draft, not a third with a no-name D-Man whom no team has wanted (he's been shipped around a TON).
EDIT II:
Yeah, but my "best" wouldn't have been very good either -- Still a pretty bad "best."
why don't you go have a talk with him? I feel the pain bro
...are great in their jobs after 20 years. You get stale. You keep doing what worked yesterday. Kenny Holland had a great run but he probably should have moved on 5 years ago.
vanek doesn't score in the playoffs
0 goals in 10 games for MIN in 2014-15
5 goals in 17 games for MTL
-16 career playoff +/-
you can't get value for a playoff rental for a guy who blows in the playoffs
It's time for Stevie Y to "come home."
yes please
Dylan McIlrath? That's the best you could get? He's been a AAAA player for his entire career despite the Rangers trying for years to give him a spot.
Hey, McIlrath's nickname is "The Undertaker" so Holland got his value right there. If only Paul was still alive, RIP
Less can be more exciting!
-Ken Holland, 2016
Hey, my prom date didn't buy that and neither do I!
This is an alarmingly low return - worse than what we got for Jurco. I get the sense that Kenny tried to start a bidding war on Vanek but asked for too much and waited too long and trade partners started going to their Plan B. Maybe this is a sign that we will resign Vanek in the offseason.
Um. We got a third-rounder for Jurco, and a third-rounder from a much worse team plus a defenseman for Vanek. How is that a worse return?
Sorry - I was thinking of Smith.
However the 3rd Round pick we got for Jurco is actaully Ottawa's so that is probably equal to a 3rd rounder from Florida. Plus we have to retain 50% of Vanek's salary. It looks like McIlrath has cleared waivers 2 times this year already so we could have had him for free if we wanted.
Bad trade.
Who cares about the cap hit? It's not like we're signing any marquee free agents between now and the summer?
We're sending Florida an obvious rental, it's not like we were going to get The Future in return.
I'd expect more for Vanek...
The 2nd is in 2018, though, and future picks are always discounted in value. If we'd insisted on this year's 2nd, we wouldn't have got it. Plus, the Rangers are pretty decent, so the pick is kind of down there. Florida is not, and if the Panthers do make the playoffs, we get Arizona's 3rd-round pick instead - which is like thisclose to being a second-rounder.
I mean, it's not a super-special haul, but it's far from a disaster.
Many experts have noted that next year's draft is much stronger than this year's. I actually like that the 2nd rd pick included in the Smith deal is for 2018.
Just look at last year's draft class compared to the top mock boards for 2017. This year's class is very underwhelming, for whatever reason.
Vanek has 15 goals in 48 games. The Stars traded Patrick Eaves, who has 21 goals in 59 games, for a 2nd rounder that becomes a 1st if the Ducks go to the conference finals.
Someone always overpays at the dealine, which is why people are pissed that the Wings got a return you would expect to get if you made a trade during the offseason.
I don't think you can look at another deal that is an obvious and blatant overpayment, acknowledge it as an obvious and blatant overpayment, and then complain that we couldn't find another idiot to obviously and blatantly overpay us. Sometimes deals don't set the market, they just make other GMs shake their heads and resolve not to be like that fool.
Exactly. This isn't free agency, where it seems like every GM is scrambling to throw money to match the market.
The NHL is already a trade-averse league, just cause one GM overpaid for players doesn't mean the rest of the GM's are going to follow suit
Jurco, Smith, and Eaves where a player of worse value got more than we got for Vanek. (Ok, in Jurco's case similar but Jurco is wayyy worse than Vanek)
So really I think the onus is on you to show an example of a trade where we a player with more value than Vanek got less.
As an example, the market deemed Victor Stalberg to be worth a 3rd round pick and Vanek has 25 more points than him this year and almost 500 more points in his career.
Stalberg and Vanek aren't even close to being comparable players. Stalberg is a pretty good checking line forward. Vanek is a really bad scoring line forward (which again, not many playoff teams need).
But Vanek is just undoubtedly a better hockey player. Stalberg's career statline is in line with what we saw in Detroit with Kirk Maltby. You cannot honestly tell me that a 3rd line checker is worth the same as a forward who has put up 40+ points every season for the last 12 years. I get they're different jobs, but it's not even close.
Either that, or show that Vanek really doesn't have the value you think he does. Vanek doesn't defend, hit, or win faceoffs. He's a scorer and nothing else, and he has a rep for being streaky, inconsistent, and for disappearing in the playoffs. Hasn't scored a playoff goal since 2014. Oh, and he's old, was hurt this season, and probably not sticking with the Panthers after this year.
Why would you expect more? I am not sure that a second-tier scorer/primarily offensive player that is known for his lack of effort and defensive ability is what playoff contenders are looking for. If you have a realistic chance of winning the cup, what player's ice team do you replace with Vanek's? Smith is a valuable upgrade for a 4th/5th/6th defenseman for a top tier team. I am not sure Vanek is an obvious upgrade for a top 6 forward for any team, so he is more of a risk reward type tradebait.
And I'm being kind. We traded away 50% of Vanek's salary for a middling 3rd round pick and a guy who is a UFA at the end of this season. McIlraith is going to Grand Rapids so we may never see the guy in a Red Wing uniform. The only way this trade makes any sense is if Vanek comes back next year, which I don't know is a good thing.
Vanek was worth a first from the right contending team and Kenny allowed himself to get hustled by a division rival. Fire this man immediately.
Well, "division rival". This season is already lost/over, and Florida doesn't have Vanek past this season.
When Florida is playing you, you've lost your touch.
How do you get a 3rd for Vanek when you just got rid of Jurco for the same thing?
This is embarrassing. Vanek could have gone to a western contender for a much higher price. What a joke.
What if Vanek signs with the wings next year? His contract is up, right?
I think it's likely. I'm hoping for that to happen.
So I'm still not sure what this trade accomplishes.
Rebuilding on the fly can certainly work, just, not when you sign your third-line grit forwards to crippling long-term contracts and think that this undrafted pleasant surprise you stumbled across should be paid like a Norris finalist.
Holland will make sure that comes true.
Its sick that we're going into rebuilding mode with a GM that won't be here long term. Holland has another year on his contract and he'll probably be around another year. Very tragic.
The market drives what you get, not what you want. I just did a quick scan of the trade deadline feeds, no one is getting that the haul you expect for anyone, especially a solid but not great player who does not perform in the playoffs. For the first time in what seems like ever, I can support Holland's trades.
Uh, buddy you realize Washington just got Shattenkirk from the Blues and is one of/ if not the best 2017 FA's available.
What an incredibly disappointing trade. Shocking that the price was not higher. When it comes to guys like Vanek -- guys with a ridiculous ratio of performance: cap hit -- it looks like a seller's market to me. How is it that none of the front runners wanted to take a shot on this guy to put them over the top? It's what we would have done ten years ago. He's absolutely a "final piece" guy first rounder.
Spot on. He had a few bad seasons recently but somehow, on this team, he was having a great season. Literally the only Wing you can say was consitently good all year.