SIAP: Why didn't Webber participate?
He isn't willing to discuss his having taken money from Ed Martin
He is not allowed to have any contact with the University and I believe legally he can not speak publically about any of the details until 2013. If he ever tells his side it should be interesting. Although I think he harbors so much ill will toward Michigan that it could be ugly.
There was nothing to stop him. He just doesn't want to answer questions.
Chris Webber has stated publicly many times how much he loves the university and he has said how sorry he was that he was a part of this. He has never fully acknowledged what he did but he has said he was sorry he brought this on. When he tells his side, I don't think it will be ugly. I think he'll mix painting himself as a victim and half-hearted apologies the way a lot of athletes trying to save face do. Pathetic, maybe, but not ugly (unless he actually gives details about just how dirty the program was - then it will be ugly!)
Well, he won't even really acknowledge that he did anything wrong. He also pretty much single-handedly set back Michigan's program several years with the probation, vacated wins, removal of banners, etc.
I don't see why he would want to participate, unless he's going to say he's sorry.
I thought it was great without him. It gave Jalen Rose more face time, and Jalen's much more interesting to listen to than C-Webb, anyway.
Personally, I would of loved to hear Webber's side of the story. Its all really unknowns as far as even when he got that payment. If you listen to the sportsguys podcast with Jalen Rose they talk a little bit about why Webber didn't want to participate.
Which podcast? Link?
March 14th, 2011 at 10:26 AM ^
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/simmons/index
Click on the bottom link in the black box.
Fisher's involvement hurt Michigan more than Webber's.
Why?
1. Fisher made Ed Martin a booster. Webber couldn't do that.
2. The program didn't get hit that hard because of Webber. It was because of a pattern of players getting paid that continued long after he left and a lack of institutional control. Fisher's actions and inactions played a major part in that.
Martin was a booster long before Fisher was appointed as the head coach. Martin was hanging around during the Frieder years.
Martin only became a booster in the NCAA's eyes when Fisher gave him Final Four tickets. He was hanging around before, but Fisher gave him access.
March 14th, 2011 at 10:13 AM ^
He was a donor during the Frieder years. Therefore, he was a booster long before Fisher. Heck, if you buy tickets, even single game and student season tickets, technically you are a booster in the eyes of the NCAA (the sole reason Carl Hagelin did not officially accept the swedish flag and it was considered a gift to the program). The probe did include the Frieder years, but they did not find any evidence of gifts to Michigan players or any players or coaches lying to investigators (the more egregious violation).
The NCAA declared that Ed Martin became Michigan booster in April 1992. He had no connection to the program before then. Prior to then, his big interest was Detroit Southwestern HS, coached by Perry Watson. When Fisher hired Watson in 1991, Martin seems to have piggybacked along.
March 14th, 2011 at 10:05 AM ^
1. Players have said that coaches don't have to be complicit for stuff like this to happen, and they implied that Fisher didn't know what was going on. Jalen said that the players started getting money when they were in high school before Fisher was really involved with them.
2. As someone else stated, whether Fisher made Martin a booster or not really doesn't matter. Webber (and other players) taking the money was the biggest issue. And other players taking money after Webber really didn't matter as much. Does it really matter if victories from the 1996-97 season would have been vacated? The wins, memories, and banners that Michigan fans/alumni/students/etc. valued so much were from those Fab Five years.
Yes thsoe 96-7 years matter with Traylor etc. because that's what actually set the program back.
The Fab Five did not set the University of Michigan back.
Yeah, I guess the seasons in which we had double-digit losses ('96 and '97) were way more important than the season in which we made it to the national championship game and won 31 games.
The correct answer is none of the above. The initial Ed Martin investigation resulted in very minor sanctions against the program in 1997. We were not placed on probation and did not lose any scholarships. The matter appeared to be closed. Even so, we fired Fisher, made a terrible hire to replace him, and the program collapsed.
Not until five years later, after Martin's testimony to the FBI came up, did the NCAA get the evidence it needed to actually level significant sanctions, and it reopened the case. By then we were on a new coach (Amaker) and the program had long since fallen. We then took down the banners, vacated the games, banned ourselves from the postseason for a year, and lost one scholarship for four years. But by then the program was already in shambles.
The Ed Martin stuff resulted in Fisher getting fired. Everything that happened after that was our own doing. If we had made a better hire back in 1997, we could have avoided a lot of losing and all this would just be a historical footnote.
I agree with you that Jalen was *awesome* on this.... Just felt like something was missing though without Webber.
March 14th, 2011 at 10:09 AM ^
I dunno, maybe it's just me, but I thought Webber's absence made the whole documentary very effective. Despite all the great things that happened during that time for the players, fans, and program (until the sanctions), it implies that there's still some ill will. Not everything is hunky dory in Webber's relationship with the university, and I think his refusal (or inability) to comment is "very telling."
March 14th, 2011 at 11:43 AM ^
the panicked hiring of ellerbee set us back more than the actual punishments imposed because of the fab five
YIWP.
I would be shocked if Chris didn't have his own book or documentary to tell the story that he wants to tell at some point. I hope that he will tell his side for some personal closure on the whole ordeal, but lets be real, his story is probably worth a lot of money to him someday.
did anyone else find it suspicious that Ed Martin died as the case was heading to court? i did, but i was like 13 and was doing a lot of lik-m-ade and donruss at the time.
Does anyone think that C-Webb will really apologize if he does not like the UofM? Seems to me like he just doesn't think highly of the university and thinks they owed him!
March 14th, 2011 at 10:04 AM ^
I think there was some anger from the whole F5 on the amount of money that they generated for UofM and companies like Nike. It must have seemed so completely unfair to a group of 19/20 year old kids. So maybe Webber does feel like UofM "owed" him something. I'm not saying that he is right but you could make the arguement.
If it was legal what would UofM be willing to pay Webber and the Fab 5 for the exposure they received and product sales?
March 14th, 2011 at 10:22 AM ^
Webber will never apologize. In his mind he did no wrong. I can see where he's coming from as an 18 year old kid, I just wish he could do what's right as a 38 year old man.
March 14th, 2011 at 10:42 AM ^
I disagree entirely with your assessment. I think Webber is complying with the no-contact rule and is purposely keeping his mouth shut. I think you will find a very apologetic man when he does finally speak out. He loved Michigan and loved being there and, as you saw in the documentary, was crushed after the UNC game. In my opinion, had the "timeout" never happened, Webber would have stayed in school at least another year to fulfill the promises the 5 made to each other. As such, I think you'll see Webber publically apologize and become very active with Michigan basketball after 2013.
March 14th, 2011 at 10:23 AM ^
I thought that the doc was well done, Jalen's fingerprints were all over it. He was always the most savvy and socially aware member of the Fab Five, and it showed.
Sure, I wish that Chris Webber would have been part of the project, too. I also wish that we would have won both of the NCAA finals that they played in, that they would have played together for four years and brought the program four championships, and I wish that the Beatles had never broken up, and I wish that we could all get along.
Chris Webber feels justified. That's the issue. He feels that he was taken advantage of, and then betrayed when the Ed Martin connection came out. He knows that the University made millions off of his skills, personality, and efforts, and he resents it.
As far as I'm concerned, Chris Webber should be welcomed back to Ann Arbor, no apology required. He was 19, for God's sake. If I had to apologize for all the stupid crap I did when I was 19, I'd be busy. We all would.
March 14th, 2011 at 10:31 AM ^
Given the legal issues involved, the question should be why would anyone expect Webber to participate?
He almost went to jail for allegedly lying to a grand jury about taking money from Ed Martin. He only avoided jail because the key witness died before he could testify against Webber.
So why would he want to voluntarily make any public statements on the subject? His only options would be (i) repeat the story that almost got him sent to prison; or (ii) admit that he lied and perjured himself before a grand jury. I don't know what the nature of his plea bargain was, but it might be the case that admitting to perjury now could get him in additional legal trouble. Even if that's not an issue, I can understand why he wouldn't be interested in admitting to a felony on national TV.
I'm sure if it was just reminiscing about basketball and their effect on the culture he would be the first to join in.
Couldn't CWebb have just specified that he would not talk about the money and Ed Martin, but still have gone on to talk about being part of the Fab Five and what life was like in the dorm, etc.?
March 14th, 2011 at 10:39 AM ^
Dear CWebb:
Please choose one of the following options.
1. Come clean.
2. STFU
It was Webber's lying that caused his problems in the first place. I loved CWebb on the court, but I do not like the version of CWebb off the court who has constantly brought negativity to the University of Michigan.
To put it bluntly, Tom Izzo has Chris Webber to thank for his place on the college basketball coaching food chain. If Chris Webber hadn't made it "cool" by example to take Ed Martin's money, Michigan would still be THE instate program, and Tom Izzo would have been Jud Heathcoate, V2.
Two years of ecstacy for fifteen years of grief: it's not much of a tradeoff.
March 14th, 2011 at 11:13 AM ^
Well, he did choose option number 2, didn't he? He's refusing to speak about it anymore, which is why he didn't participate in the documentary. So not sure what you're asking from him.
March 14th, 2011 at 11:39 AM ^
You're a good person, Tater, but you're way off on this one. Webber brought negativity to the program when he took money, sure. But since that time he has been silent and not said a disparaging remark about the program or the school. After the initial dumbf-ck decision to take the money, I cannot fault Webber for how he's carried himself vis-a-vis the university. If anything, the classes that followed Webber caused more trouble for the program than Webber ever caused. Ed Martin's contributions became known because of these subsequent classes, thereby causing the downfall of the program. Webber may have breached the issue, but the subsequent classes (Traylor, etc.) broke the camel's back.
Also, in my selfish opinion, the two years of ecstacy was definitely worth the 15 years of grief. Those two years will never be replicated in Ann Arbor again. They revolutionized college basketball and I will never forget being on campus during that time.
March 14th, 2011 at 10:40 AM ^
Who can't take resoundingly for what he did. Little bitch
March 14th, 2011 at 12:11 PM ^
the dumbest thing Ive ever heard
March 14th, 2011 at 10:40 AM ^
that he hung out a lot with Webber during his time at Michigan, and if Webber got between 200-300 grand from Martin during his time their he must have had it buried in the back yard.
For and 18-19 y/o to have that much money he certainly didnt spend any of it outwardly.
In his estimation if Webber got money from Martin, it was after he declared for the draft and when he was drafted.
is it only in football where once you declare yourself eligible for the draft that you lose your amateur status? Because if it is the same then taking money after declaring isnt against any rules.
March 14th, 2011 at 11:07 AM ^
Why would Webber want to be on this documentary when his image was rubbed through the mud over all of these years? He made mistakes when he was a kid and people continue to pile on a young man who was preyed upon in his youth. Ed Martin was a grown man that took advantage of a young person and people want to continue to discuss how bad of a person Webber is.
Why would Webber join a documentary where he was the dirty, shady player who took money meanwhile his buddies, like Jalen Rose, recieved money and never recieved one ounce of criticism. The school turned their back on Webber and he feels betrayed by everyone involved including the his "friends" on the Fab Five. No thanks on being part of that kind of film.
Oh and those who hate Webber yet love the Fab Five, you may not have even watched the Fab Five play back in those days. Webber was the absolute best player by far and all of those achievements that the Fab Five gained were in large part due to his contributions. Without him, Michigan would never have even been to two Final Fours in a row. While you place all of the blame on Webber, remember that without him all of the wonderful achievements were not possible.
March 14th, 2011 at 12:13 PM ^
now I dont have to write all of that
March 14th, 2011 at 11:11 AM ^
Even if he did participate, how could you believe a word he would say about it? He has lied about everything since day one on this whole episode. He lied to grand jury, but was lucky enough that the chief witness died (Ed Martin) right before the trial. I support Brandon's insistent that he apologize before anything is done on the matter. He is not a victim, nobody stuck a guy to his head that made him go the University of Michigan and nobody forced him into taking the money. He has taking far more from the university in the past number of years than he ever contributed in his 2 years on campus.
March 14th, 2011 at 11:59 AM ^
And what exactly has he taken from the university that benefitted him? By "taking" I assume you refer to the removed banners, pain and suffering that the program has experienced, etc. That is valid. However, remember, Webber gained absolutely nothing from this and, if anything, his image was forever tarnished by something unbelievably stupid he did when he was 19. And the fact of the matter is that you have absolutely no idea about what really happened. For all we know, a lot more went down that Webber is taking to the grave, which is why he falsified statements. Who knows!
By taking, I mean the damage he has done to the university in past years. His image was forever damaged by his own actions. Even today he should have choosen to be a part of the documentary even though you would not be able to believe a word he said. Today he could call a press conference and set the record straight on what he did and knew. What we do know is that he lied to grand jury, we alsl know he has never set the record straight and always blamed someone else. Alot of people do dumb stuff at 19, but Webber is 38 now and it is time to be a man and own up to his own actions.
March 14th, 2011 at 11:50 AM ^
I think the doc might have been better without him. And man was it a great documentary. CWebb's absense gave Fab 5 mystery and intrigue and left open the question of just how this magical thing happenend at M and across the US. It wasn't just 5 awesome ballers coming together. It really was synnergy and it was cultural and emotionally charged. CWebb will get his chance to tell his story. He may never tell the truth. But this documentary gave a fair and thrilling view of what went down. I think it might be the best sports documentary I've ever seen.
March 14th, 2011 at 12:35 PM ^
He wrote a tweet last night basically saying that he loved the film and hopefully he'd be able to tell his side of the story sometime soon. Just checked today and it seems as if it's been deleted?
http://twitter.com/realchriswebber/status/43400149690617856
It's actually from earlier in the month. It was retweeted quite a bit last night, and that is why many people thought it was from last night. It's still there.
from 3/3/11:
EDIT- Sorry for duplicate, I haven't refreshed the page in a while.
I find it odd that Chris Webber took 200K but lived the lifestyle of a kid who didnt have 20 bucks to his name. If he had all this money, where was it? Why wasn't he driving a slightly nicer car or eating? Don't you think he would have helped out his brothers when they needed it? I understand Mitch Albom isn't the most reliable of sources, but why hasn't anyone else come out and said that they know CWebb took the money and lived the lifestyle? I honestly have no idea what the story is, but I know that there are issues that just seem off from both sides of the isle. Hopefully one day all the truth's come out but until then, I am sure we are all left with more than a few questions about that era.
Since Rose helped produce the documentary for ESPN, it features nearly every principal and periphery figure in the Fab Five's rise except one: Chris Webber. Rose told the Detroit Free Press that he and his former teammates tried several times to persuade Webber to sit for an interview with no success. Link