Culture Shock
This is painfully obvious, but it is cathartic for me to spell this out. It appears the rough start for RR at both WVU and UM has little to do with player fit and everything to do with culture shock. Sure, many players didn't fit, but I am guessing that if RR wanted to be a players' coach and keep English and work with what he inherited, he would have made a bowl game last year.
Instead, our coach obliterates all traces of anything not done his way. I am cool with this, because his way is the Way of the Bull. The collateral damage of his uncompromised vision is three win seasons. The central success is that he can take zealots like Owen Schmitt and make fearsome football warriors out of them and go Oklahoma on people.
Thoughts? Doesn't 3-9 have everything to do with a house not yet cleaned, and little to do with maximizing wins with talent that doesn't fit? Is that even coherent?
I hear what you are saying and it is a criticism that I have heard many times before. "Why didnt he use what he had and adapt the offense to who was there already." So I think your point is well taken. He teaches what he knows and what he knows is the spread and all of its intricacies.
Yes, and I think he understood that there would be pain, but, in his mind, it had to happen. Now, he could have done a lot of things better, but fundamentally, the weeding out process has to happen in that first season.
Hopefully O'Niell and Wermers are the final stages.
It might be that I am a tad inebriated, but your avatar is downright disturbing.
Never seen LOTR?
It's an eye-cathcer, eh? I just envision Gothmog looking out over all those GED fans in the horseshoe and being able to say one year: "Fear. The Shoe is rank with it. Let us ease their pain. Release the Wolverines!"
I think it is more of an attitude (the "culture" thing that MDan is referring to) of, dare I say, "All In" as in total commitment. I don't think it is coincidence that that is the slogan for the coming year.
As in Barwis-type psychopathic level of commitment that is demanded. Many of the players that have left the program (Boren, O'Neil, Mallett, etc.) are not going to buy into that.
Thats a fair point. Not everybody is capable of having that attitude or wants to have that attitude. I love where Michigan football is going though.
Im glad the OP mentioned Owen Schmitt who was one of my favorite non-UofM players. The guy is a beast.
It was time for change, rather than more of the same. I loved Lloyd Carr, and Bo, et. al., but I support the shift in culture.
I think the argument is a lot stronger for the defense, which we all "knew" was full of talent and would carry the 2008 team. The d-line, 4 returning DBs, Obi and Mouton. Loaded. Then why did it struggle so much... culture shock may be part of the answer.
On offense however, which is RRs area, saw the star LT, QB, TB, and 2 WRs go pro and a potential-starting QB and starting Guard leave. The "talent" that was left was not fit for the spread. Offensive struggles I think are completely due to lack of "spread" talent and youth. Add injuries to Minor, Zirbel, and Brown, and it was a mess that I doubt any coaching style could turn into a 7-5-type offense.
the culture change. I know some of these guys we're getting are lower rated, but it seems like a lot of the linemen/D players are "nasty" or "play with a mean streak." I absolutely love that in defenses just guys that are ruthless and want to punish someone every time they make a hit. RR asking every recruit if they really love the game is going to bring a different type of mentality to this team.
I live less than a mile from Christian Pace. Wait until you see this animal. You will love this kid and, as Brian says, he is a five-star for RR's system.
Having had breakfast with Coach Frey and "BIG" Dusty earlier in the year he wrapped up the Boren situation in a very easy way.
1. Boren wanted to go home whenever he need to help his dad with his snow plow busniness. He abused that excuse.
2. He had always wanted to go to Ohio State to be closer to home and his dad bribed him to go to Michigan, hoping he would grow to love it.
3. He wanted to do "his workout not Mike's"
4. He just simply "hated to run". Coach Frey jokingly told the linemen they had to run sprints at the end of practice before a holiday break (I think Easter Break). The intent was to have them line up and then suprise them with "I'm just kidding you don't have to run any sprints today". Instead of lining up Boren walked out of practice.
That is not who you want in your program no matter what culture it is...I'm glad the coaches now weed out these guys that would have coasted during the Carr years.
I'm not saying Wermers or O'niell is that guy but having talked to most of the staff and having watched a half dozen practices up close I will tell you this...Coach Frey is a really nice guy to sit and talk with socially, he will talk to you about anything in the papers about the program, he is straight forward and will give you "real answers". That being said he does not even begin to take one ounce of shit from his players. He teaches very agressively and thats just his style. I can see why guys who don't want to work or don't fit in want to leave on the offensive line. He is much more vocal and demanding then a guy like Coach Jackson...you could probably go four years without him ever taking your head off the way Coach Frey will.
That's some great insight to have into the Boren situation and the coaching staff. Thanks.
RE: the OP's post, I hear what you're saying. I remember some older, retired coach who knows Coach Rodriguez saying when he first came on "he'll put the Frank Sinatra on it - he'll do it his way."
This is a 5 star story and a good reason to justify me reading the comments on MGoBoard as much as I do. Gold star to you.
Fantastic. You elevated my lame forum post. You must repost this in the diary.
That's the best post I've read in awhile. Stuff I can't get reading the paper.
1) why give him the unconditional release to OSU
2) nothing about the little bro not getting offered?
nothing to do with his little brother not getting offered
1. I'm speculating but I think you want to get those guys away from your program and move on. I would love it if guys with that type of attitude went to Ohio State.
2. Nothing about little brother. It could of been an issue but that doesn't seem like something you complain about to your position coach..also I don't think Coach Frey recruits the state of Ohio anyway.
I of nothing to add.
It would have been extremely difficult for any coach to get us to a bowl game with a gimpy Threet and Sheridan QB, a patchwork OL, and an injury-riddled RB/WR corps last year. We just didn't have the team to do it. I mean really, we started a walk-on QB four times (and he finished several other games) behind one of the worst OL in school history. How can you say it "had little to do with player fit?"
I admit this is speculation, but Mallet may have been in play with a more accomodating approach (probably not, but...) or Threet in an offense less radically different should have produced a few wins out of Utah, Toledo, Purdue, NW. Keeping English - a concession to something other than his style - would have resulted in a better defense. I think 6 wins is not unreasonable.
I thought this was going to be about RichRod having to get used to all the hippies in Ann Arbor..
That would have been more interesting.
and the team wasn't that good
noooooo they're have to be at least 834589237 better reasons.
I think you are bang on with the "culture shock" and it has been my contention listening to coach Rodrigues that it is entirely intentional. He came with the full intention of changing the team culture and has proceeded with that. It was obvious the moment he cleaned out all of the gym equipment and had the administration buy all new stuff. There are very few elements of this program that do not have the Rodrigues stamp on them now. Personally, in spite of the losing record, I like what I see [from the outsider's arms length view, of course].
Good thoughts, but I think you push it a little too far. If Mallett stays and English stays and Boren does something positive, you might get to six wins. But with "his uncompromised vision" you are implying a bit more credit to RR than he probably deserves. I don't think he's calmly seeing 3 wins as part of the overall plan that brings him to 12 wins in 2011. I think he is coaching the only way he knows how to coach. If he thought keeping English would have given him 6 wins instead of 3, he'd have kept English.
I dont have a brother in law to throw in as evidence of this opinion, but I think RR would be willing to sacrifice 3 wins in order to implement his way of doing things. There is not a big difference between 3-9 and 6-6, unless your Indiana. Bad is bad and either of those would have been bad when you are Michigan. I think he has full confidence in his coaching and his ability and feels that he can build any program into a contender, if he just does it his way.
Now do not get me wrong. 6-6 at Michigan sucks. But there is a whole world of difference between going 6-6 versus 3-9, such as going to a bowl game, getting many additional practices... and not f'ing up UM's bowl streak. So while 6-6 still would have sucked, it would have meant that he did not lose to NW, Purdue, and Toledo..
I see your point. The bowl game would have made a difference, that is agreed. However, I believe that getting his system and his guys in place as early as possible was better for the team in the long run. Keeping anyone he didnt feel comfortable with just because it might have got the team 3 more wins in the first season may have hamstrung the team in the future. This discussion can go on and on because we're debating hypotheticals here, but we would be better served sticking to what know: 3-9 was horrible and RR will turn it around.
I think there's also something of an attitude re-adjustment going on as well. I've talked to quite a few players lately and obviously they're going to be positive, but I absolutely love what I've been hearing, primarily from defensive players too.
Why do so many people assume that Mallett would have stayed for a different system or coach? Why does anyone assume that Mallett would have stayed even if Carr did? Mallett was homesick and wanted to go home to Arkansas. His parents were pressuring him in that area, too. Mallett was gone anyway, and RR's system was a great excuse.
Another assumption I don't like is that the returning defense was going to be good enough to carry the team. They were the same defense that let Appy State beat them and Oregon destroy them. The good news was that they were getting most of their defense back; the bad news was that they sucked in 2007 and it would have taken a lot of improvement for them to play better in 2008.
No bona fide QB + crappy defense + mediocre OL = 3-9.
And there really wasn't much RR could do about it.
I am glad RR is here, glad he is changing the culture, and believe that we will all be thankful in a year or two.
I said Mallet was unlikely. But those who think Toledo, Utah, NW, Purdue and perhaps even another game was not in play if certain things had been done differently or, say, we had half the fumbles, I think are overstating the inevitability of 3-9. The point is that RR made no concessions to expediency, not that we were one move away from 8-4.
We had to burn the village to save it.
Wermers (naked) flees workouts and stuff
Wermers (naked) flees workouts and stuff^^^^^^^ Are you kiddin me? I hope you are drunk.
Who me?
Did you read the caption? I thought it was so funny I gave myself a point.
Did you read the caption? I thought it was so funny I gave myself a point.
No, it wasn't.
Yes, it was.
No, it really wasn't. If that picture doesn't break your heart at the core of your being, they I don't think we're talking the same language.
Perhaps it's a cultural difference.
No its an issue of one's sense of descency and one's moral compas...
No, it was not...
is wrong with you? Please respond so I can give you some more downratings.