What will it take?
Just curious what anybody thinks it will take to be the straw that breaks Manuels back and forces him to fire Harbaugh. This team is clearly the softest U of M football team that I have ever witnessed and I honestly believe they quit tonight. There were a couple of runs by Wisconsin that guys literally gave half ass attempts to stop. Will it take getting beat by Rutgers next week because right now its looking like there's a pretty good chance that will happen. Will it take not winning another game this season (also looks probable), or will it take getting beat by 70 by OSU. I'm starting to believe that Manuel would never make a change unless Jim makes it for him which would tell me we don't have the right guy in the athletic directors chair either. Curious what others think.
November 15th, 2020 at 12:01 AM ^
Honestly, I do not think Manuel would ever fire Harbaugh, regardless of how bad this program sinks.
It's Harbaugh's decision, and his decision alone.
November 15th, 2020 at 12:06 AM ^
Why??... what has Harbaugh done to deserve such special treatment? This is business and his record is crap.
November 15th, 2020 at 12:13 AM ^
Oh trust me, I am 100 percent with you. I would have fired him last year.
I'm just telling you what everyone seems to know. Harbaugh has a lifetime pass here as long as he wants it.
November 15th, 2020 at 12:53 AM ^
If that were true he would've already received a contract extension. But he hasn't, even though he tried to get one before this season, and this season won't inspire Warde to grant him one after this shit show.
Warde may let him finish out his contract, which I think would be a big mistake. There's no reason to think Harbaugh has a lifetime pass when his contract is set to run out after next season. Warde has clearly soured on Harbaugh, but we just don't know when he will cut him loose.
November 15th, 2020 at 12:03 AM ^
I think losing to Rutgers would be the final straw. Given his overall record (48-21) and the buzz he has created with positive financial impact, recruiting, etc, Warde would not fire right now at this obvious low point. But 4 straight losses in humiliating fashion should do the trick. If he keeps him, and then we beat Rutgers and Maryland and possibly PSU (unlikely, but not completely implausible to win all 3) - then we lose to osu and next year is the all-or-nothing year. 3 losses next year including the 7th straight to osu would be the nail in the coffin. I am not saying this is the best approach, I am just saying this seems to be the conservative and rationally defensible approach I would expect.
November 15th, 2020 at 12:05 AM ^
Why would Rutgers be a low point?
They actually look like a halfway competent program this year with a new coach.
November 15th, 2020 at 12:07 AM ^
Because Rutgers has been the laughing stock of the power 5 during Harbaugh’s six year tenure. I know they are mediocre this year, but they are generally looked at as a joke across the country.
November 15th, 2020 at 12:13 AM ^
I care about the now.
They look like they are starting to get their shit together.
If that's your perspective, MSU should have been the low point.
November 15th, 2020 at 12:16 AM ^
I care about the now, too - but 4 straight with Rutgers as the clincher would be universally accepted - for reasons I stated above.
November 15th, 2020 at 12:18 AM ^
I just do not see a loss to Rutgers as being a "tipping point."
If tonight was not a tipping point, there never will be one.
November 15th, 2020 at 12:23 AM ^
Fair - I respect your view. I honestly think Rutgers is so synonymous with terrible football, that it could be the true straw to break the camel’s back.
November 15th, 2020 at 1:03 AM ^
Rutgers is better than MSU and they proved it. MSU is proving just how bad they are.
We all thought Minny was pretty good based on last year, now we know they aren't.
If the losses keep stacking up, this whole season will be a low point. The fact that none of us has confidence M can beat Rutgers is a good indication we've already hit bottom. Only wins can change that, but the team doesn't look capable right now.
November 15th, 2020 at 1:21 AM ^
The joke is on us.
November 15th, 2020 at 12:09 AM ^
You can’t keep Harbaugh without a contact extension. No recruit in his right mind would sign with a lame-duck Harbaugh. It’s either fish or cut bait. Now.
November 15th, 2020 at 12:11 AM ^
Says you - and most would agree. But: we don’t call the shots. This is my best guess. You make a really good point, though. Contact years basically do not exist in major college football programs for obvious recruiting implications.
November 15th, 2020 at 12:15 AM ^
In my personal opinion, it will take institutional change. The big donors and potentially the athletic department need to stop meddling with the periphery of the football program.
There is no such thing as winning the "Michigan Way" or being a "Michigan Man". There never was.
Stop bloviating, let the next coach come in and build his program. Give him 4 years minimum and just let him build. Don't tell him how Lloyd Carr or Bo Schembechler did it. If he's you're guy, let him work and let him install his vision. Evaluate after year 4 unless something is clearly off.
As much as fans hate to admit it, Michigan is doing the exact same thing Texas and Tennessee are doing. Sure, power house potential programs tripping over their own dick because they won't take the path of least resistance. They want to do it their way.
Meanwhile programs like Clemson and LSU and Louisville and Auburn just follow the trends of college football and adapt to the way the most talented players play the game.
It's really not hard in my mind, as long as you keep your ego out of the way.
November 15th, 2020 at 12:52 AM ^
Ding. We have a winner of the thread. Too bad what you wrote in the last two paragraphs will probably never happen here.
November 15th, 2020 at 6:00 AM ^
Your point is probably still accurate, but your examples aren't good -- at least for this year. Obviously Clemson is doing well. But the overall record of LSU, Loiusville and Auburn is very similar to that of Michigan, Texas and Tennessee.
November 15th, 2020 at 9:27 AM ^
Sure their overall record is similar, but their “big game” record way exceeds us. Auburn and LSU have both won titles in the last ten years and beaten juggernaut Alabama. I’d take a championship paired with 2 losing seasons over finishing 3rd place consistently any day.
Louisville not so much, but they are a much smaller school.
November 15th, 2020 at 4:50 PM ^
Auburn has beaten their juggernaut arch rival Alabama several times in the last decade. LSU has won a national championship. Louisville is an under resourced program that has produced New Years 6 bowl wins and a Heisman trophy winner. Would you not trade for their level of success over the last few years?
November 15th, 2020 at 12:32 AM ^
They are not going to fire Harbaugh. It took too much to get him. They are not going to embarrass him. It will be a “mutual parting of the ways when his contract expires next year. No way the regents will agree to keep paying him this amount of money to lose like he’s losing.
November 15th, 2020 at 12:53 AM ^
Keeping him for next season is death. He can't coach next year.
They have to part ways this year. Preferably, right now, but at most in a few weeks.
Recruiting. Powerful alums are letting Ward know.
Problem I see as this is a systemic problem with University leadership.
They have to decide if they want to be great at football.
If they do not, we should just move to the Ivy. Nowadays, big time D1 championships require COMPLETE buy in.. relaxing SOME admission standards but also please stop with the Michigan Man falsity.
Not sure who would want to come here though.
November 15th, 2020 at 12:59 AM ^
Recruiting will be totally destroyed if Harbaugh comes back for his lame coach year.
November 15th, 2020 at 8:07 AM ^
This right here. I get the sense that the school’s administration gives less than two shits about having a winning football program. Unless that changes, U-M will be mired in mediocrity in perpetuity.
November 15th, 2020 at 12:57 AM ^
IMO both the coach and AD need to go, along with the President.
November 15th, 2020 at 1:07 AM ^
Warde has done a pretty good job with basketball so far
November 15th, 2020 at 1:18 AM ^
Im with you, clean house totally from the top to bottom. We are making history right now... Wolverines (1-3) fell behind 28-0 at halftime, their largest deficit at home since the Big House opened in 1927, and are off to their worst start since 1967.
November 15th, 2020 at 3:46 AM ^
We'll wait and see with Warde, but Schlissel and Harbaugh should be gone ASAP.
November 15th, 2020 at 1:30 AM ^
The one cut away to Warde during the game and he was not watching. He was scrolling through his phone. Maybe the back has already been broken.
I’m sure Warde has been getting calls from the big donors for weeks. I also think it is a tough situation.
1) Harbaugh is/was a Michigan legend who will continue to have access to a public platform where he will undoubtedly voice his opinions. It would be ideal to have an amicable ending. For Jim’s part, that would probably mean letting him coach out this season.
2) Warde’s ultimately accountable to and for the student-athletes. If he feels the pulse of the players is that they have had it with Harbaugh (probable based on the past few weeks performance) then letting Harbaugh go now would be better.
There are pro’s and con’s either way. Assuming Harbaugh has lost the team, I lean towards option 2 because it shows recruits that the program cares about the players first and foremost.
November 15th, 2020 at 3:35 AM ^
With the talent in house, it would only take caring like their life depended on it and practicing at an unholy level of intensity.
November 15th, 2020 at 6:03 AM ^
As much I agree that our AD has an unbreakable relationship with Harbaugh, I just think the damage is done and there’s going to be way too much pressure on him to part ways with our coach. The problem I have as a fan right now is that I can’t come up with the next coach that would be a confident hire. I feel like all the names that are thrown out there are just rolling the dice. Shaw is good but not great. Fickell is literally the last coach of OSU that Michigan beat. Hopefully some name emerges that looks good but right now I’m nervous about the future of the program.
November 15th, 2020 at 10:04 AM ^
Going 1-7 and a record breaking 80-0 loss to to OSU is probably the only way he leaves. If other reports are true, the only way JH is given his walking papers is if the biggest donors, boosters pull financial support and a significant percentage of season ticket holders do not renew and skyboxes go unsold. The only thing the administration will hear is significant $$$ losses, otherwise we are stuck with arrogant prick as a head coach for as long as he wants to be here. Warde M has no backbone.
November 15th, 2020 at 11:20 AM ^
I hope that the speculation about Warde being a lethargic loyalist to Harbaugh is wrong. RichRod and Hoke were fired appropriately, and I expect that Harbaugh will be too. I was hoping for this week, It needs to be as soon as possible. Every embarrassment means more recruits defecting and possibly more guys leaving the program. The bleeding has to stop.