Nick Saban on Lane Kiffin

Submitted by Drew_Silver on

http://www.cbssports.com/collegefootball/eye-on-college-football/247228…

 

Saban took heat when he hired Kiffin - so he is mocking the 2nd guessers.

 

Interesting quote from Saban - Would love to see some 1 / 2 down passing plays

Saban had previously been asked if Kiffin had been allowed to open up the offense more than his offensive coordinating predecessors.

"No, no," Saban said. "I've been begging the offensive coordinators around here to open it up ever since I've been here ... My philosophy hasn't changed at all. I've always asked for this. 'Why don't we throw the ball on this look instead of running this play where we can't block everybody?'"

 

 

Tuebor

September 24th, 2014 at 11:26 AM ^

Must have been some disagreement between Saban and Nussmeier for him to troll so hard.  To be honest I wouldn't mind going 4 wide and opening up the offense a bit.  With Funchess, Butt, Darboh, Chesson, Norfleet, and Canteen we should be able to move the ball some.

MadMonkey

September 24th, 2014 at 11:31 AM ^

of four wides when Brian completes the offensive UFR for Utah.   If I am not mistaken, I remember a couple 5 wide sets with no one behind Gardner and 5 linemen.   The problem was that Gardner did not (or could not because of an undisclosed injury) go deep.   One of his worst decisions was when Funchess was uncovered and sprinting to the end zone and Gardner chose a cross field throw to either Chesson or Darboh working in double coverage.   It was bizarre.   

Space Coyote

September 24th, 2014 at 12:03 PM ^

The defensive personnel will be based on the offense's personnel, not formation (because they don't know the formation until after the offense lines up). They were trying to keep Utah in their base defense and then spread them out and force LBs to play in space. Most of the time what you'll see is Kerridge or Hayes split out as the widest person in the offense, that's in an attempt to force a CB to cover them within the scheme of the offense, putting LBs on WRs inside. You're trying to waste the defense's best two cover guys on RBs and force the rest of the defense to account for WRs.

On the other hand, when Michigan uses Norfleet or Chesson as an H-back, they are doing the opposite. They are trying to get the defense into a Nickel package and then force DBs to have to play inside the box. I believe it was Joe Gibbs who talked about running OZ at CBs because "our CBs suck at tackling and your CBs probably do too". Note: this was the exact philosophy Wisconsin had againt OSU last year, when they kept trying to have Roby leverage the boundary; it also happens to be why Borges ran TEs to the boundary, to force Dennard to be the force defender, obviously with less success; the difference there was that was an attempt to do it with scheme, while Nuss is attempting to do it with personnel. You force a defense to leverage a play with CBs or have DBs trying to pick through the wash and get off blocks, that's typically a win for the offense.

ChasingRabbits

September 24th, 2014 at 11:34 AM ^

I hate these conversations, because inevitably it gets back to bagging on kids that are working their ass off for our entertainment...  but, if our QB always locks in on one WR (usually Funchess) in a 2 and 3 WR set and throws at him no matter how open he is..  what makes anyone think that sneding out more WRs (less protection) is going to make any difference except maybe get him killed even faster.  Serious question.  This is the route that should have been taken 10 years ago (strike up the florida bowl game old bit), it probaly would have (did) worked with those QBs OLs WRs back in the day. 

 

 

Tuebor

September 24th, 2014 at 11:44 AM ^

Less guys in the box makes it easier for the OL to diagnose who is bringing pressure.  If they blitz utilize hot routes to attack the space the blitzer vacates.  Nobody is saying we need a 5 step drop offense.  Quick passes can help DG get in rythm and maybe run some more read option or inverted veer to utilize his legs.

Space Coyote

September 24th, 2014 at 12:02 PM ^

I really don't think teams have been blitzing Michigan any more than nominal so far this year. They have on passing downs, but for the most part I think defenses have been playing a lot of 4-man rushes against Michigan. They likely feel they don't need to blitz to stop the run and that they can get good enough pressure with the front four. On passing downs, yes, Utah really did quite a bit off the edges, but I don't think down-to-down Michigan is getting blitzed heavily like they did in the 2nd half of last year.

Space Coyote

September 24th, 2014 at 12:00 PM ^

Part of the issue is that Gardner has failed to identify his hots this year when presented with the opportunity. This 5 wide system requires quick underneath reads (not a strength), accurate throws (not a strength).

Likewise, fewer box defenders makes it a bit easier to identify the pressure or where the pressure is coming from (at least internally, not on the edges necessarily), but it doesn't make it easier to pick up the pressure. You have fewer blockers, the defense has more free space and less wash, therefore, the defense can play quicker as well. From what I've seen this year, Michigan's biggest issues have been on blocking the edge, not the interior. It's hard to say if they are identification issues or technique issues, but most of them are coming from twists picking on Glasgow and Braden. One thing it would allow would be more simplified blocking schemes, like slide protections. But Michigan has busted those this year (and last year) as well, so I dunno.

Tuebor

September 24th, 2014 at 12:33 PM ^

If we spread them out then the edge pressure has to travel farther to get to the QB.  It we block better on the inerior then maybe that will open up more seams for gardner to scramble.  Anything but the slow developing play action pass game is preferred at this point especially with our best WR hobbled up.

BloomingtonBlue

September 24th, 2014 at 11:45 AM ^

I'm all for protecting the "kids" even though they're legal adults. Let's stop acting like they don't receive anything for accepting a scholarship to play football. They receive far more benefits than 99% of the people who go to college and they sure as hell aren't playing for our enjoyment. They're playing to make it to the NFL and to be apart of fraternity that sets up them for life. The "kids" are going to be just fine.


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schreibee

September 24th, 2014 at 2:30 PM ^

Waitaminnit.... ARE you all for "protecting the kids" or are you not? The entirity of your post after the introductory sentence made it seem as if you're not that concerned with it.

Just to clarify, I'm going to make a random generalization here and say far fewer than 10% of the players who've represented the University of Michigan on the gridiron over the past 10, 25 or even 50 seasons ever played in the NFL.

Therefore they are most certainly playing for our enjoyment; it's that enjoyment that built the stadium, that paid to add the suites, that pays for the athletic scholarships (and that's not to mention those who PAY to play on the team - Order of Kovacs members).

I normally wouldn't take the time to refute your obviously angry points about student-athlete benefits, but you had to go and begin it with a false statement of your intent, and you had to go and demean the players' motives in suiting up in the Maize & Blue and donning the Winged Helmet.

So...there!

BloomingtonBlue

September 24th, 2014 at 2:41 PM ^

They are playing for their enjoyment, not our enjoyment. They don't give a damn about you or Is enjoyment. Just because a stadium is built around their hobby doesn't mean they are doing it for us. We are going to the stadium for them, so you have that twisted. I wasn't talking about the fraternity of being in the NFL I was talking about the fraternity that is Michigan Football. They meet a lot of people and have tons of contacts coming out of college, far more than the average college student.

I'm not angry at all, I just get tired of the comments that act like these kids are slaves and didn't make the choice to play football. They did and they are compensated for it, very well.


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schreibee

September 24th, 2014 at 3:53 PM ^

Let's find something more important to get in a pissing match over please, but you DID say they play for Michigan to get into the NFL. Re-read your own post if necessary.

So, technically, I'm sure every player who suits up "hopes" they'll get into the NFL. But to suggest that's WHY they're doing it is wrong on every level.

And if they're playing for their own enjoyment rather than ours, tell me the last time you saw a really organized game of NCAA-level athletes playing a game of football outside of an official game for their own enjoyment? They (hopefully) enjoy playing, but it's us that brings them there, and the tangible and intangible benefits that it provides.

The question at hand was whether venting about the general dissatisfaction with the team's play should be limited to bashing the coaches and AD, or whether the student-athletes should be fair game too.

Your "snarky" response about the "kids" spoke far more clearly about where you stand than any subsequent clarifications could ever do. If it's all fair game to you than just say so, man. Don't try to have it both ways, because there's lots of people on this blog who love to call bullshit on people. It's like a way to vent our frustration without bashing the coaches OR players.

 

B1G_Fan

September 25th, 2014 at 4:16 AM ^

And if they're playing for their own enjoyment rather than ours, tell me the last time you saw a really organized game of NCAA-level athletes playing a game of football outside of an official game for their own enjoyment?

 

 Just this past spring / summer at farmington hills. There where several big ten stars there .

We ask a lot more of kids younger than these guys, in the United states military.

 Lets say all of these kids are chasing a dream.... Some for the NFL, some to get a free degree and some just to step foot in the big house on Saturday. The ones who purely do it for the NFL are the ones who transfer after they get passed on the depth chart

The Baughz

September 24th, 2014 at 11:34 AM ^

Yes. Let's go 4/5 wide and utilize a quick passing game . The less DG has to think the better. Utah ran a decent amount of quick, short passes and that seemed to work ok. We have a lot of good athletes that would thrive in an offense like that. They can also take some deep shots with Funchess. I dont understand the under center play action on 2nd/3rd and long. It's mind boggling. Borges did it, and now Nuss is doing it. Why? It makes 0 sense. Maybe Brady has a lot more say so in the offense then we realize.

Tuebor

September 24th, 2014 at 11:47 AM ^

Even more mind boggling is the draw plays on 3rd and long. 

 

When they ran draw on 2nd and 22 for 0 yards I told my Dad that at least they have to throw on 3rd down now.  The other mind boggling thing is on 3rd and 7 running routes that are short of the first down.  I don't care if it is a 5 yard out on 3rd and 7 you bend it to 7 yards to get the first down.

The Baughz

September 24th, 2014 at 11:59 AM ^

I was alluding more to the quick screens and things like that. The slant he threw to Funchess that ended up getting picked off should have been caught. I guess the main point is that I dont think the coaches are putting DG in the best situation to succeed. I have been an OC before on the high school level, and to see someone call a playaction pass on 3rd and LONG with an OL who cant block well is insane. I dont recall Nuss calling any screens. Nothing beats an aggressive defense better than a screen. I know Green and Smith arent your typical screen guys, but you have to do something to keep the D honest. Justice Hayes can catch and they dont allow him to do anything except get a draw here and there. I

t's crazy how bad the offense has been. You can say that DG is handcuffing Nuss because of his performance, and I get that, but if that is the case then you need to let Shane have a chance from start to finish and see what happens. To not get in the red zone against two mediocre power 5 defenses is inexcusable. 

DonAZ

September 24th, 2014 at 11:58 AM ^

Yeah ... I'm not buying the notion that Saban "begged" OCs and they didn't comply.

Saban's reputation is a bit like Belichick's -- tight control over everything.

Mittelstadt

September 24th, 2014 at 12:00 PM ^

I couldn't put my finger on why I wasn't having as much fun on the weekends and why I just didn't feel the way I usually do in the Fall.  Now, I read this from Wojo and it's rignt in my face.

4-8 in the last 12 games.  Yikes.  I had to read it again.  Yikes!  It's true.  We stink!

The first step in solving a problem is to admit you have one.  

I was in denial, hoping we would look great this year.  I convinced myself that Appy State was enough of a test to show our o-line had really improved.  All they while noticing that our o-line still has issues.

Any kid who chooses to come to Michigan is an amaizing kid to me.  And we owe it to these kids to find the best damn football coach to coach them.

4-8 in the last 12 games.  The staff is deep in the denial phase.  If Shane isn't named QB they will seal their fate.

My hope, like a parent who hopes their kid gets off drugs, is that Shane is named QB and steps in and a methodical, pro style offense, ala Tom Brady/Belichick, emerges and the team finds an identity.

I'm in the parent who will never stop caring phase.  But, sometimes, you have to be cruel to be kind.  That's the next phase.

 

Space Coyote

September 24th, 2014 at 12:12 PM ^

Kiffin is exactly what Saban wants in an OC: someone who is terrified of Saban.

Kiffin on the sideline looks like a little kid trying to please his dad and every time the offense makes a mistake he kind of ducks his head like he's going to get swatted in the back of his head with a newspaper. And when the players come to the sideline he kind of talks to them like "Don't embarrass me in front of Coach".

I also don't think any defensive minded coach would disagree with what Saban is saying. What defensive coaches fear is unpredictability. They don't like having to cover everything on every single down. So from a defensive minded guy, the way to achieve that is to throw more on 1st and 2nd down. But to an offensive minded guy it can be a bit of the opposite. They don't want to be forced into a situation where they become predictable. That moment comes up when they get behind the chains. 2nd and 8, as weak as that first down run is, keeps the offense open. 3rd and 6, as little as you've gained on your first two downs, keeps the playbook theoretically open. Neither of those are optimal, but theoretically it's kind of a worst case. But you get 2nd and 10 with an incomplete pass and suddenly you have to pick up four yards to keep the playbook open.

DonAZ

September 24th, 2014 at 1:04 PM ^

Kiffin is exactly what Saban wants in an OC: someone who is terrified of Saban.

If by implication you're saying Nussmeier was not that guy ... then I'm even more pleased Nussmeier is on our sideline.

They don't want to be forced into a situation where they become predictable. That moment comes up when they get behind the chains.

I was thinking about this the other day.  I have a post in another thread where I was speculating about offensive metrics that could be used to chart game-to-game progress.

Obviously, a "W" is the ultimate metric ... but I'm starting to think "yards gained on first down" may be the metric to chart the growth / maturity / effectiveness of this offense.

As much as I love to see a box score with Michigan being 12/15 on 3rd down conversions, I think I'd rather they not face 3rd down in the first place.

Space Coyote

September 24th, 2014 at 1:15 PM ^

Most offenses chart that sort of thing. They have different ways of doing it so, it isn't always consistent, but almost all have some sort of down-by-down metric.

Some will simplify it and just do something like "half the down and distance or more = success on first and second down".

Others will say something like getting to 2nd and 6 is considered a success; getting to 3rd and 3 is a success (or better).

A lot will do a three group success rate: success, neutral, fail. Then they can have a success rate (success/(success+neutral+fail)) and a fail rate (fail/(success+neutral+fail)).

The point being only that it is something offenses track, giving merit to your point.

DonAZ

September 24th, 2014 at 1:45 PM ^

I suspected coaches track these things.  We live in a spreadsheet world.

I almost wish Hoke would come out in a press conference and talk a little bit about the metrics being tracked and the progress being seen. 

That assumes there is progress in the metrics being tracked.  If not ... then ... umm ...

DonAZ

September 24th, 2014 at 1:52 PM ^

Alabama vs. Texas A&M ...

Alabama had 568 yards total offense, 31 first downs and were 3 of 6 on third downs.

Think about that ... 31 first downs and only faced 3rd on six occasions.

Now that's effective 1st down production.

Further ... 20 for 29 passing, with 10 receivers in on the action, with the highest being 4 for any receiver.  Now that's spreading the ball around.

One can dream that will happen here.

bronxblue

September 24th, 2014 at 2:23 PM ^

Yeah, Saban is just rewriting history here. Nussmeier's offenses were some of the better, most balanced ones they've had at Alabama in recent years.  Kiffin is a good OC as well, but nothing in Saban's recent history would lead me to believe he's been calling for the offense to open up.

Jimmyisgod

September 25th, 2014 at 9:29 AM ^

Go visit any Bama board and look up what they thought about Nussmeier.  Now most fan bases scapegoat coordinators, but they hated this guy.  And the most damning thing of all is that they all think he was pushed out by Saban because he didn't have the work ethic Saban wanted.  Now this is big time college football and Saban's idea of work ethic is probably along the lines of a 100 hour work week, maybe Nuss only wanted to work 75 hours a week because he liked to occasionally have dinner with his wife.  That's what Bama fans think and say, "Nussmeier wasn't all in."