Be More Constructive With Your Feedback

Submitted by Michael Scarn on November 3rd, 2021 at 3:32 PM

Annie Duke, World Series of Poker bracelet winner and behavioral science author (also sister to Howard Lederer, two-time World Series of Poker bracelet winner), describes the resulting fallacy in her book Thinking in Bets as having evolutionary roots.  According to Duke:

To start, our brains evolved to create certainty and order.  We are uncomfortable with the idea that luck plays a significant role in our lives.  We recognize the existence of luck, but we resist the idea that, despite our best efforts, things might not work out the way we want.  It feels better for us to imagine the world as an orderly place, where randomness does not wreak havoc and things are perfectly predictable.  We evolves to see the world that way.  Creating order out of chaos has been necessary for our survival.

When our ancestors heard rustling on the savanna and a lion jumped out, making a connection between "rustling" and "lions" could save their lives on later occasions.  Finding predictable connections is, literally, how our species survived...Incorrectly interpreting rustling from wind as an oncoming lion is called a type I error, a false positive.  The consequences of such an error were much less grave than those of a type II error, a false negative.  A false negative could have been fatal: hearing rustling and always assuming it's the wind would have gotten our ancestors eaten, and we wouldn't be here.

Seeking certainty helped keep us alive all this time, but it can wreak havoc on our decisions in an uncertain world.  When we work backward from results to figure out why those things happened, we are susceptible to a variety of cognitive traps, like assuming causation when there is only correlation, or cherry-picking data to confirm a narrative we prefer.  We will pound a lot of square pegs into round holes to maintain the illusion of a tight relationship between our outcomes and our decisions.

I take issue with much of the criticism of Jim Harbaugh I have seen on this site (such as equating a 7--1 team to the winless Detroit Lions) because I believe much of it is rooted in resulting.  The "BPONE" is your lizard brain hearing any rustling in the trees and emotionally fleeing the jungle.  It's the same urge that drives many folks to place the blame on play calls when a unit struggles, regardless of the talent and execution of the players on the field.  That's an important distinction: a play call is bad if the process leading to make the call is flawed, not because it yields bad results. 

Poker players know this phenomenon well: playing heads up, imagine you have a low pocket pair (let's say 5/5) and you put your opponent on two over cards (say King/Jack unsuited). When your opponent pushes all in, calling their raise is not a bad decision.  You have slightly better than a coin flip's odds.  All else being equal, if your opponent pairs an over card on the board and beats you, that does not change the fact that the odds were slightly in your favor, and your 5's should be good slightly more than half the time.  So as I strain this analogy to its brink, the question becomes, is Jim Harbaugh playing pocket 5s correctly? 

With that context, I aim here to evaluate a few of Harbaugh's high leverage decisions from the MSU game from a process perspective.  To do so, I think it is important to distinguish what I view as the three primary ways a head coach influences wins and losses (not breaking any ground here):

1.  Recruiting & Player Development: scouting, recruiting, retention, and developing players.  Building relationships with players, developing a culture and identity within the program.

2.  Scheme: hiring assistants, empowering them to run their schemes, ensuring scheme matches talent, evaluating assistant performance and influencing game plans accordingly, fostering cohesion among staff, etc.

3.  In-game decision making (loosely, game theory): use of timeouts, 4th down decisions, use of gadget plays, onside kicks, etc.

Anyone who has engaged with me on this site this year (or any time, probably) knows I am pretty dogmatic in my desire to have Michigan retain Jim Harbaugh for the long term.  There are many reasons for my belief in Harbaugh, but for now I will boil it down to categories 1 and 2 above. 

Michigan has shown it can recruit well, but not at an elite level, under Harbaugh. Perhaps you would argue it took too long, but the hiring of young assistants, several of whom are viewed as elite recruiters (or logically will be - such as Ron Bellamy), was a clear admission that recruiting, as well as the culture within Schembechler hall, was not what it needed to be.  Jim Harbaugh saw a flaw in the recruiting process (assistants hired for their schematic prowess more than recruiting chops, many at toward the end of their careers), and adjusted accordingly.  It is still too early to determine if this will bear fruit, but the logic of the hires and willingness to adapt assistant qualifications in a sea change fashion show a coach focused on the process, not just the results.

The same goes for scheme.  The Don Brown experiment ended disastrously, but let's not forget how strong that hire looked at the outset. Jim modified his process here too: while still leaning on those he trusts (this time his brother rather than Belichick), he plucked a young coach with high potential and zero coordinator experience to run his defense.  Harbaugh eschewed a focus on results (after famously finding Don Brown by looking up the number 1 overall defense) in favor of a process that sought to align scheme more with Michigan's talent, as well as the talent and schemes of their opponents (OSU).  Additionally, Harbaugh sought a coach who would bring scheme versatility and complexity rather than relying on a simplistic approach.  The Macdonald hire clearly shows a shift in philosophy: there is more than one way to solve your problems, and it does not always have to be aggression. 

With that out of the way, let's dissect a few decisions from Saturday:

1.  The two-minute drill at the end of the first half.  There are a few decision points here that I think bear review.  First, the decision to take multiple shots at the end zone.  In the moment, I argued with friends you would be better off shooting for a play at the sticks accompanied by a quick spike rather than multiple shots in the end zone.  But the counterargument is clear: any play short of the end zone inbounds risks a turnover or the clock running out.  Kicking a field goal to go up 2 scores is significant: I think you would have hopefully seen more risk taking if Michigan was only up by 3 at that point.  The other decision here is what to do after Mel Tucker uses all of his timeouts to ice your kicker.  To me, that created a potentially huge opportunity: send out Moody following the last timeout, then either sub him out or sneak a QB on the field as the holder and go for 6.  MSU's inability to call timeout and panicked ensuing substitution should increase the odds of a TD.  You're the chip leader by just a bit, you can choose to lean your opponent hand by hand, or you can bluff a big pot and potentially take a commanding lead.  But again, taking the points to go up 9 makes a lot of sense.

2.  The "QB controversy" in the four minute offense up 3.  I do not care whether Mcnamara was medically unavailable for this play.  As Ian Boyd pointed out, McCarthy makes sense in that situation as you are clearly going to run the ball, and a plus one with a QB run/option could be significant.  But more importantly for me, your process ALL season has been to prepare #9 for a moment like that, giving him snaps at key times in the Wisconsin and Nebraska games, for example.  Also, plenty of coaches believe in the "go right back to the guy who fumbled" philosophy, and I tend to agree.  It is not as if JJ was playing poorly in this game, either.  If we add the wrinkle that we can assume #12 could not play, your only other alternatives are to burn a timeout or play a 3rd stringer, neither of which are particularly palatable.  I really struggle to see how anyone could have issue with this call, especially those who consistently claim that Mcnamara is the one who handicaps this offense, and the run game in particular.

3.  Substitutions on defense.  This one is the most clear mistake, and Harbaugh has admitted as such post-game.  The frustrating aspect of this is that it has occurred all year - going back to the Washington game, Michigan subbed into tempo and got punished for it a bit.  Scott Frost also gamed the back judge effectively enough to get a score in the red zone with a late substitution.  It's a learning curve for an NFL coordinator used to middle of the field hashes, long play clocks, and infrequent tempo.  But while it seems to be a glaring error to sub the way Michigan did in this game, it is important to recognize that the defensive line platoon has proved largely successful, and is arguably one of the reasons Michigan has improved so much defensively.  In part because Macdonald believes sincerely in matching personnel, but also because of the talent make up of this team.  While we have seen flashes and big strides from Smith, Hinton, Ojabo, Jenkins, and Morris, Michigan still lacks a true impact down-to-down defensive tackle, which we all "knew" before the season started.  Consider whether Michigan is subbing the defensive line so much if Maurice Hurst or Jacob Slade is on the roster.  My point is, some of this is from lingering Don Brown recruiting issues (although you may be able to attribute some blame to Nua as well).  So shutting down the D line platoons in this game was probably not realistic. The glaring error in my view was not calling a timeout when half your defense  onto the field as the ball is about to be snapped (IMO, the risk reward of calling timeouts earlier in the half weighs heavily in favor of using them on defense rather than offense, and calling one while staring squarely into a potential opponent touchdown is a worthwhile timeout).

There are many more decisions you can question, but I believe each one deserves a truthful examination of the decision making process.  Other criticisms essentially equate to "call the touchdown play." 

For all the merit to Harbaugh's track record and processes, I do think that for this team to take the next step, he should ratchet up his risk tolerance in games against evenly matched teams.  He has shown he is capable of doing so; you only have to go back to this season's Wisconsin game to see a guy going for it on fourth down from the minus 35.  The hire of Matt Weiss also suggests Harbaugh understands he had/has some blind spots on this front.

If I have not massacred the rhetorical device enough, my point is basically this.  Sometimes when your opponent pairs his over card on the river to beat your pocket pair, those are just the breaks.  But it is also true that sometimes you should try to push your opponent to fold before the flop and not even let them see the river.  

As always, Go Blue.

P.S. The title of this post is from Flight of the Conchords, and the music video is worth a watch.

Comments

DennisFranklinDaMan

November 3rd, 2021 at 4:24 PM ^

Good stuff. 

One concern of mine, as we evaluate and try to make sense of Harbaugh's disappointing record in these kinds of games, is whether in fact his play calling is appropriate as the game comes down to the wire. Whether he "turtles up" (as some posters have it) or otherwise makes strange (and, perhaps more importantly, uncommon and unwise) play calls.

In this game, for instance, I thought the third and three fade to Sainristil and the flea-flicker pass into the endzone were both risks we really didn't need to take, especially with that quarterback, in that situation. Obviously, there's a little bit of "hindsight-is-20-20" here, if we hit either of them, wonderful, but honestly, even as the plays were unfolding I couldn't understand them.

Those are just examples -- I'm sure there are others, including the entire second halves against Rutgers this year, and both Army and Iowa in 2019.

But maybe I'm just ignorant. Maybe those were either good -- or at least not uncommon -- calls in those situations. 

Still, that's something many of us are concerned about, that you didn't address. His "scheme" is one thing. The extent to which he stays with it when it's not working, or actively moves away from it when it is working, is a significant element of the criticism brought against him.

trueblueintexas

November 3rd, 2021 at 4:47 PM ^

My question on the flea flicker dealt more with field position. That is a long developing play which requires depth of field to throw. It looked like Cade had to put less air under the pass because the receiver was running out of space in the end zone. 

This is the part of Harbuagh teams that frustrates me. That seems like a basic thing. Why not run that play 10 - 15 yards further out giving your college players a little more room for error like they did at Wisconsin? 

DennisFranklinDaMan

November 3rd, 2021 at 6:37 PM ^

Absolutely. I liked the call in general -- but man, calling it from inside the 30 forces your quarterback to hit the kind of window he would on a normal route. It's a great play to call at some point. Heck, even late, on our last drive, or something. But why then, when we're moving fine and in (or close to) the red zone?

PortlandiUM

November 3rd, 2021 at 5:14 PM ^

Great analysis and I agree with most of it.  I, too, am in support of keeping Harbaugh because he's the best available option right now and he doesn't get credit for things that should matter (running a clean program and helping develop his kids into productive members of society).  Overall, the program is trending up and I will happily take a 10-2 season this year and beyond.  I don't think it's fair to judge someone on their inability to beat the incredible run of teams from OSU.  However, I think there are a few weaknesses that we just can't seem to get over.  I could be wrong in assigning blame to Harbaugh but he is the head coach after all.

1. It seems like we play "not to lose" rather than playing to win.  Just like in the Carr era, we often take our feet off the gas in the third quarter and struggle to claw back into a game that we could have won.

2. I am unsure how much he meddles in the offense but it feels as if any creativity, speed in space, whatever-you-want-to-call-it gets neutered and leads to a similar offense each year that is easily scouted.  He always seems to scheme some incredible games for OSU (the O'Korn game comes to mind) but imagine if that could be applied to the rest of the season.  We're always waiting for our mundane plays to build into something that pays off later.  Pepcat?  Shae/Cade actually running a ZR?

3. Michigan never seems to rise above the occasion.  In big games, players make plays.  MSU and OSU players always seem ready, prepared, and come up with the big plays when called upon. We seem to shoot ourselves in the foot more often in these games.  Corum/CJ dropped gimmes, Moten drops the INT, critical fumbles.  You have to make plays.  We won't even mention how pitiful we always present in bowl games, which are nearly unwatchable.

I'm not sure how or even IF he can change these things but he has never been averse to trying something new.  I just hope this last loss can jump start some creativity, focus, and the desire to play to win.  All it takes is one The Game to change the narrative.  I hope they're all ready.

 

Go Blue!

 

SpamCityCentral

November 4th, 2021 at 9:25 AM ^

MSU's mistakes were early in the first quarter. Our mistakes came at the end of the game which ultimately decided it. We had 3 drives in the final 8 minutes that would have given us the win if we scored a TD. Instead we fumbled, turned it over on downs, and finally the interception to seal the game. We were moving the ball pretty well, but couldn't do it at the end. That is my takeaway. 

WolvesoverGophers

November 4th, 2021 at 12:05 PM ^

All fair points.

We all have a slightly different view of losses.  As to "Not rising to the occasion" in this game, I disagree.  Up by 16 to tied and losing all momentum, the team made a drive to go ahead, then stopped a team that would not be stopped.  Ball at midfield with 7 minutes left and ...well...

I thought they pulled themselves off the mat and were in a position to win (ala Nebraska).  I found that refreshing and evidence of the character of the team.  

I believe the team will bounce back and let's see how they manage a very good (but beatable) OSU team.

 

PortlandiUM

November 4th, 2021 at 12:25 PM ^

Agreed, I think they were in position to win that game and they dug deep and came up short.  I guess I am more looking at OSU games, top 10 matchups, and bowl games as a whole.  When you watch our OSU and bowl games, the other team always comes out of the gate better, makes the big plays, and keeps the foot on the gas.  Our losses to Florida State and South Carolina immediately come to mind.  I remember Carr's last game against Florida and thinking "where was that team all these years?"  I think I am still waiting for that team to show up.  I think Harbaugh is the right man for the job, I just hope these recurrent issues would go away.  That takes us to the next level.

Eng1980

November 5th, 2021 at 12:24 PM ^

Bowl games under Harbaugh have been plagued by injuries and early defections to the NFL (or preparation for scouting camps) so there is a built in excuse. 

With respect to OSU, I fault Harbaugh for the team playing a nervous and tight game that seems to put pressure on the individuals to do more than they can do to win.  (We don't play our best game against OSU.)

WolverineMan1988

November 4th, 2021 at 1:26 PM ^

I guess my response to this is that what you’re pointing out I would consider an example of not rising to the occasion. MSU has all the momentum at 30-30. Scoring a field goal instead of a TD is failing to capitalize on a good drive. Fumbling when you have a chance to put the game away. And then not scoring on consecutive drives. Last 4 drives were FG-fumble-turnover on downs-INT. Regardless of whether you think the officials played a part on those drives, there were so many opportunities for Michigan to “rise to the occasion” and they didn’t. We had ample opportunities to halt MSU’s momentum or take it back but instead we left the door open and MSU rose to the occasion instead. 

tigerd

November 3rd, 2021 at 7:27 PM ^

The one big decision which we need to see play itself out is the hiring of McDonald. Clearly he did not give his defense the best chance to win by continuing to do the curly shuffle even after MSU had taken advantage of him trying to do so near the end of the first half. His hardheadedness in this aspect reminded me a lot of Don Brown sticking with the same defense as OSU exposed us on quick crossing patterns over and over again. Also, to your point in regards to recruiting, we have no idea if he can bring in the type of talent to take the defense to the next level. He only coached at the college level for two years (10  years ago) before joining the NFL ranks. Hopefully being a young energetic guy will help him in this quest but time will tell. Out of all of the off season moves that Jim made, this definitely appears to be the one that could make or break him.

Michael Scarn

November 3rd, 2021 at 8:34 PM ^

I think he has made a lot of chicken salad this year, so to speak, but has also had some unfortunate repeated mistakes as you say.  I agree that Harbaugh won't be given the opportunity to find another defensive coordinator unless Macdonald leaves because he gets hired away.  I will be very interested to see how Macdonald responds to tempo and substitution games after taking this one on the chin.

Blue@LSU

November 3rd, 2021 at 8:51 PM ^

Sending out the offense after Mel used his last TO at the end of the half would've been awesome. It would have taken some major stones to make that call. But man I'd love to see an aggressive move like that.

Re getting caught on the defensive substitutions: At least we know our players aren't taught to suddenly "cramp up" when they are due to rotate off. It would've saved us at least one substitution penalty and perhaps a touchdown. But it's just a cheap move.

Chris S

November 3rd, 2021 at 10:42 PM ^

Great write-up. Here's something to consider about the tempo too: why not just fake an injury?

Well, when you think about it, what kind of message is that sending your team if your core values include toughness and integrity? That it's okay to violate those as long as it helps you win? It might be sacrificing short-term for long-term, and I'm not saying I know any inside info that Harbaugh preaches against faking injuries, but I wouldn't be surprised if Michigan wants to avoid that kind of play. Maybe that hurts us in this game but helps us gain a recruit who shares those core values.

wolverinebutt

November 3rd, 2021 at 11:16 PM ^

I still support Coach H.  I think he is a loyal, hard working man not afraid to make the tough changes needed.  I am hoping the staff shake up is enough to get him/us over the hump.  We seem so close sometimes it hurts.  The trouble with the snap game,  losing to a high school QB last year and now Saturdays game leaves me with butt hurt.  Give it two more seasons with this staff. 

What do we lack?  I believe we need a little more toughness across the roster.  We keep getting caught short at different positions like DT, WR, QB and corner.  When someone leaves early or gets hurt we should have a dude waiting to step in.  Hopefully the recruiting changes fix this crap.                           

newtopos

November 4th, 2021 at 12:03 AM ^

Well-written.  Thanks for putting this together. 

One small point: I wonder if Weiss had any thoughts on going for two when we went up 29-14.  I don't think I have ever seen a coach do it, but I believe there are some analytics to support the decision in the third quarter.  

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/when-to-go-for-2-for-real/

That is dependent on a lot of factors, of course, including likelihood of converting the two-point play (and I think we are not great at that this year), so I doubt it ultimately would be the optimal choice for this team in this game.  (There are also the issues of momentum and psychological effect when playing on the road.)  But the idea did cross my mind at the time.  A conversion would make it a three score game (17 point lead), and a failed conversion would likely mean that MSU would still play for a tie if it got two straight TDs (go for two on one of the TDs, but not the other).  It would be interesting to hear if Weiss thought about this.  

ca_prophet

November 4th, 2021 at 6:20 AM ^

A good example of pushing your opponent (and having it backfire) was the onside kick earlier this year.  The downside was quite low - trading ~15 yards for ten seconds with ~25 seconds left in the half - and the upside if you recover is crushing.

Another factor to consider is that we've seen Harbaugh be aggressive when he thought he had an edge, but not if he doesn't think we have the horses.  In this game, it seems like we were down to our fourth string guard, matched against a great DT in Slade, and it seemed like there were a lot of plays that went like "+1 for Hayes, +1 for All, Vastardis does enough ... and it's all for naught because Slade stuffed Barnhart in a trash can and blew up the blocking".  If you're looking at that, the short-yardage/4th down decisions don't have the same odds as they did in other games - we didn't have the horses.

Normally, I'd expect Michigan to be aggressive in short yardage - throwing on 3rd and 2 knowing that you're confident you can get 2 yards on 4th, for example, which they did - but it's likely the run game wouldn't have backed it up the way it did at other times in the year.

Anyway, I like the focus on process and not results.  An improved process will produce better results over the long haul.

Jmer

November 4th, 2021 at 9:25 AM ^

Annie Duke and Howard Lederer are both horrible people who pretty much aren't allowed to show their faces on the poker tournament circuit. 

Brian Griese

November 4th, 2021 at 9:53 AM ^

Good post OP and I appreciate your viewpoints.  Just like anything in life, some criticisms against Harbaugh are fair, some aren't and some are irrelevant or are downright silly.    

One thing I am hoping we can maybe have some back and forth on: You brought up recruiting and how adjustments/changes have been made there.  Personally, recruiting is far down on my list of what's 'wrong' with the program (arrogance is my runaway number 1).  I firmly believe, absent the last couple years of the Brown regime, this program has recruited about as well as it possibly could since Hoke was hired.  We can probably agree that only teams Harbaugh has played regularly that recruit at the same level as Michigan are ND, Penn State and Florida and our record against those teams combined I believe is an even .500.  You'd like to see that higher but it is what it is.  Everyone else I feel is recruiting at a higher or lower level to varying degrees.   

What does frustrate me is this constant narrative about the talent gap and how that prevents us from competing with Bama or OSU.  MSU, Iowa and Wisconsin don't seem to be scared of the "talent gap" between themselves and Michigan.  

The question I would pose to the OP is this: What are the reasons in your mind that OSU squeaked out wins in 16 and 17 against Michigan yet then blasted us in 18 and 19 and surely would have done so in 20 if not for the game being cancelled? What, if any, of your reasons trace back to things that should Michigan should have/could be doing a better job at? I have my own thoughts but am genuinely curious to hear yours.  

 

Michael Scarn

November 4th, 2021 at 11:11 AM ^

I think it is a fair question.

Michigan's gap against OSU the last few years is a confluence of a few factors: talent (specifically at QB), scheme fitting talent, and momentum/consistency.

The first part of my answer is simple, Justin Fields vs. Shea Patterson or the rotating cast that followed him.

But beyond QB, when I say talent, I mean that Michigan recruits to basically a 3.5-4 star profile mostly, with one or maybe two 5 stars mixed in (as I am sure you know).  This can produce a lot of good and even some great players, but often the "great" players are either one of your few 5 stars or a 3/4 star who has had enough time in the program to reach their full potential.  Any level of attrition, misses on 4 starish players at key positions (like corner or DT), lead to years when you have "just guys" at certain positions.  If one of those positions with "just a guy" is opposite a 5 star/high 4 star (or someone who has past a 5 star and playing at a high 4/5 star level), they can exploit the matchup left and right. 

When you don't have NFL corners like Long and Lewis, and you can't push the pocket with an impact DT, 1-high man coverage against an NFL QB and NFL receivers means you're screwed - that is why I say scheme fitting talent.  Add in the fact that Ryan Day has proved to be just as good or better of an offensive coach than Urban, and you're in for a long day.

Finally, momentum and consistency.  OSU has had a pretty clear system offensively for a while.  You recruit the same types of players, they play in roughly the same system their whole careers, etc.  It leads to better performance in my opinion, in part because people can play faster when scheme/system does not change year to year.  Michigan, on the other hand, has been searching for an offensive identify for a few years, in part because Harbaugh felt the system they had could not get them over the hump.

This last part is why, in my view, Wisconsin, Iowa, MSU can have success against Michigan.  For Iowa and Wisconsin, the consistency of the program's identity has been clear for years.  We saw how Wisconsin's offense fell off when they decided they wanted to pass the ball a bunch this year.  MSU has had more change on this front, but the lack of expectations has lead to a "playing with house money" aggressiveness against Michigan this past two years, a mindset I would like Michigan to have a bit more - your fanbase is insane regardless and will come down on you for any type of loss, let it all hang out.  

But ultimately, I think the matchup with OSU goes a lot differently if Michigan gets very good to great QB play in that game.

MGoStrength

November 5th, 2021 at 9:17 AM ^

this program has recruited about as well as it possibly could since Hoke was hired.  We can probably agree that only teams Harbaugh has played regularly that recruit at the same level as Michigan are ND, Penn State and Florida and our record against those teams combined I believe is an even .500.  Everyone else I feel is recruiting at a higher or lower level to varying degrees.   

I think this paints an incomplete comparison of JH's recruiting and his W/L records.  The problem is not how he fares against these teams as you've pointed out.   The problem is two fold.  One, he's also only .500 against Iowa, Wiscy, & MSU and his recruiting is significantly better than those.  Two, when he is outmatched in recruiting against a team like OSU he is not competitive.

What does frustrate me is this constant narrative about the talent gap and how that prevents us from competing with Bama or OSU.  

I think you're hitting the nail on the head here.  The recruiting gap between UM & MSU is more than twice that of UM & OSU, yet MSU has a winning record against UM and, however UM can't find a way to beat OSU.

MSU, Iowa and Wisconsin don't seem to be scared of the "talent gap" between themselves and Michigan.  

Bingo, here in lies my problem.  I'm actually fine with losing to OSU, although it should still be competitive.  I'm also fine with being .500 against PSU as they are of similar talent.  But, we should be much better against MSU, Wiscy, & Iowa who UM has a significant talent gap over.  So, if recruiting is not the problem it must point to something else.  Teasing out what that is and deciding if someone else can do better is what we're after.

username03

November 4th, 2021 at 1:02 PM ^

We had two drives in the first half that ended with FGs. On one we ran the ball three straight times before kicking a FG and the next we ran the ball twice and then threw a pass that was not only not into the end zone but was short of the sticks. On both those drives we effectively settled for a FG on first down. There's a bit of a difference between saying this is a bad idea and just call the TD play. 

uminks

November 4th, 2021 at 1:57 PM ^

Harbaugh is a decent coach but not a very good or great coach. If you think having a cleanly run program with 8-10 win seasons are good then he's our coach until he retires. If you want to win B1G championships, beat OSU every 3 or 4 games and make the playoffs he probably is not the coach to do this. I'd give Harbaugh another year to win a B1G championship. He will have an elite QB and the offense should score a lot of points. But I think next season we will lose 2 or 3 games again and not beat OSU. But I think the University will be happy with Harbaugh wining 8-10 games per year, so I see him coaching at Michigan until he retires. So just enjoy your 8 to 10 win seasons and trips to the citrus bowl.

MGoStrength

November 5th, 2021 at 9:29 AM ^

I agree with all of this except the last sentence.  I grew up in the 90s, mostly with Carr, and while I know the landscape of CFB is different, OSU is way better now and doesn't have a shit coach in Cooper, you can't split conference titles, and you have navigate the playoffs rather than just win the Rose, I just can't accept this. 

I'm fine with 8-10 if we beat OSU once in a while and the games are always competitive and we beat Sparty regularly.  Carr was 6-7 versus OSU, 10-3 vs Sparty, won 5 conference titles, and a NC.  It's hard to accept we are not competitive with OSU, have a losing record to Sparty, and can't win our division let alone the conference and a NC is about as far away as the moon.

My logical side can accept OSU is better and PSU is our equal.  But, we can't keep losing to significantly less talented teams like Sparty, Wiscy, & Iowa.  If we took care of them at more like a .750 rate it would be different and I'd be more apt to accept never beating OSU.  But, put all of those together and it's just too frustrating for a child of the 90s to accept :/

mi93

November 4th, 2021 at 2:50 PM ^

Brilliant.

This team was already playing with house money and exceeding expectations.  Then expectations adjust...and it sucks that loss 1 came against a team they're better than.

Eng1980

November 4th, 2021 at 5:10 PM ^

A rational take.  I like Jim Harbaugh.  I wish he was a master of tempo as well as everything else.  I have been disappointed in the two-minute drill since the Florida State game.

Thank you for an opportunity to learn something new.  I think I was busy with school kids and coaching rec sports at this time and missed this great duo.

Flight of the Conchords, Be More Constructive

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=29M_VElHoFI

MGoStrength

November 4th, 2021 at 8:50 PM ^

We have discussed this before.  I know we are opposite sides of this argument and we will eventually agree to disagree and both see the same things, but interpret them differently.  I have a few key things that stick out.

  • I (and many frustrated with JH) don't have a problem with last week's loss to MSU.  We have a problem being 3-4 vs MSU.  
  • I don't believe JH has done well with player retention.
  • I don't think JH has done well with assistant coaching retention.
  • JH's recruiting gets watered down a bit because his player retention is so bad, and seemingly highest among some of his highest ranked recruits.
  • Many of JH's highest ranked recruits have not produced (DPJ, Patterson, Solomon, Hinton, Charbonet, Vilain, Peters, Singleton, Anthony, Walker, Filiaga, Crawford, Black, McCaffrey, Muhammed, Sims, etc).
  • I think lots of coaches would be able to recruit well at UM who don't have JH's track record because they've never coached at a place like UM with all their resources and history (like JH when he was at Stanford).