Julian Fleming to OSU

Submitted by Laser Wolf on May 31st, 2019 at 1:14 PM

Consensus #1 WR and composite #6 player in the country selects Ohio State over (relatively) hometown Penn State and Clemson. Know Michigan has been out of it for a while but was hoping he’d pick PSU or Clemson. 

 

Yes yes don’t care what does it have to do with us rabble rabble rabble 

Double-D

May 31st, 2019 at 2:05 PM ^

He’s most likely to be on the roster this fall.  I have heard he is unhappy Sainstril may have passed him by.  

If this fall works out good for him.  If not then I think a grad transfer might be an option for him.      Why sit out a year if you don’t have to?   I have heard Iowa has some appeal. 

Double-D

May 31st, 2019 at 2:50 PM ^

Martin seems pretty talented in our limited views of him so I would think that means Sainstril is the real deal.  Sainstril sure got a lot of reps and had some nice plays. 

Our WR group is just sickly loaded right now.  As good as I can remember.  Martin is still young and it’s certainly possible 2/3 may go early this year.  

Giles hasn’t even arrived yet.  RB?

Wolverine 73

May 31st, 2019 at 1:42 PM ^

Ohio State will continue to recruit really well until they start losing more, especially to us.  When they are in consideration for a berth in the playoffs almost every year, that is a damn good recruiting tool.

TryggerHappy

May 31st, 2019 at 2:12 PM ^

Woof this sucks, was really hoping he would go south- Bucks have always recruited elite WRs but the more disconcerting thing now is that they actually have a WR coach in place that is not a complete moron.

wolve1972

May 31st, 2019 at 7:34 PM ^

I think you hit the nail on the head. Their WR coach is Brian Hartline and he's still only 32. He most recently played WR with the Browns in 2015 after a decent career from 2009-2014 with the Dolphins. His skills are still probably real sharp and can probably outrun quite a few of the guys he's recruiting. When he talks NFL I would imagine kids listen and relate to him really well.  Quite an upgrade from the previous WR coach at OSU: moron Zach Smith

wolve1972

May 31st, 2019 at 7:46 PM ^

OSU and Hartline are real close to getting a commitment from one of the top 2021 WRs in Marvin Harrison out of Philadelphia. They've already have secured a commitment from one of the top QBs in the 2021 class: Kyle McCord also out of Philadelphia. Add in today's Fleming commitment (an hour from PSU) and some of those a-hole PSU supporters have to be close to losing their minds. Hate seeing OSU get all of these top notch players but at least it's coming at the expense of PSU.

DHughes5218

May 31st, 2019 at 7:06 PM ^

If anything, OSU’s recruiting class proves it’s all about relationships. They are doing great on the offensive side of the ball, where they retained almost the entire staff. Defensively, they are struggling to recruit with the new coaches. We will have to wait and see how they recruit on defense.

Buck_Fan_19

May 31st, 2019 at 10:16 PM ^

You're not wrong. The guys on offense all want to play for Day, Wilson, and Hartline. 

Defensively, our fanbase needs to accept that our greatest asset, Larry Johnson, is now 67. He's still a high-energy coach and his track record speaks volumes, but I'm sure recruits take his age into account. I personally think he'll stick around for another 5yrs, but he may decide to retire in 2yrs for all we know.

Mattison's age is also something that hurts him more than it helps him when it comes to recruiting.

How our LBs and Corners improve under Washington and Hafley is huge too because recruits will see if they're able to make the difference that we're all hoping for.

We are currently seen as locks/heavy favorites for a lot of good defensive recruits, but it is a little concerning that we haven't closed the deal with some of them yet. 

Recruiting is unpredictable. But if we end up signing a bunch of "2nd-choice" prospects on defense with this staff over the next couple years, it doesn't matter how many 5* offensive skill players we get.

 

Buck_Fan_19

June 1st, 2019 at 9:00 PM ^

You're right to say he's been a good recruiter, but I do think age plays a factor at some point.

I will say that I've always been impressed with what Mattison did with your 2014 defense though. They were on the field all game long because your offense couldn't move the ball, and they still finished as the 7th best defense in the nation with Mattison as DC/LB coach. I also don't think that your D that year was loaded with talent by any means, at least not compared the the level of talent your D has had from 2016-2018, but they were very disciplined and I think having Jake Ryan be the leader that he was helped a lot.

Interesting to see you say that about his coaching though. The only thing I felt like was a cause for concern in that area was Rashan Gary's lack of production. Seemed like your D-line took a big step from 2015 to 2016, and Maurice Hurst and Winovich developed well under him.

Could you please elaborate a little more on your point about his coaching? I obviously haven't watched every Michigan game since 2011, so you'd definitely know more than I would.

 

puma

June 1st, 2019 at 10:03 AM ^

The issue is pretty simple. Michigan has a lot of GOOD football players it recruits. Ohio State has more GREAT football players it recruits.

The reality is Ohio States elite players have been the difference in the games. Last year it was the QB and Wide Receivers that were so much better than Michigan. Michigan just looked so much more unathletic. 

Ohio States recruiting isn’t going anywhere. Defensively they will have multiple recruits coming in over the next 60 days. They already have the #2 overall prospect in the 2021 class in Jack Sawyer a defensive end committed. I would be surprised this year if they don’t finish in the top 5. Next year has the potential to be even better as the staff will be more settled in.

So the reality is that Ohio State is a lot like Texas and USC were a decade ago. Michigan has to hope for one of two things to unseat the Buckeyes.

1.) That Ohio State has recruiting misses.  That a lot of these highly ranked recruits bust and most importantly at the quarterback position. Basically what happened to Texas with Mack Brown. I find this to be unlikely to happen for two reasons. One Day seems to be a pretty good evaluator of talent. When the Buckeyes have dropped down to get 3 star players Day was able to pull a guy like Chris Olave who could be a superstar this year. Combine that with him being a Quarterback guru and pulling in a top 10 ranked QB each year I don’t see them falling very hard at QB anytime soon.

2.) The second option for Michigan to get back on top is the one that I think has a higher likelihood of happening eventually which is landing a superstar QB. I’m not saying the odds are great but Michigan needs their Andrew Luck, Johnny Manziel type who can help bridge the talent gap and raise the team to the next level. Stanford and Texas A&Ms programs were both elevated drastically from the quarterback play and changed the outlooks for the programs. 

 

LKLIII

June 1st, 2019 at 4:05 PM ^

Good post, but I think there's more to it when looking at the two possibilities for Michigan eventually unseating the Buckeyes. 

Yes, it's all about the net difference of OSU being the 'better' team changing from a positive to a negative so that Michigan is now 'better.'   And yes, a big variable as you point out is recruiting.  But in addition to recruiting, there are other factors at play as well--quality of the coaching staff to motivate, teach & develop effective game plans; locker room morale, work ethic, and mental toughness; and finally just plain dumb luck (or lack thereof) relating to injuries, key players lost to off-field issues, officiating screw jobs, players leaving for the NFL unexpectedly late/early, how various home/away schedules play out over the years, etc.
 

On the OSU vs Michigan recruiting front:

 

What you point out very well may be correct.  But individual skill at identifying talent isn't a factor to be considered in isolation.  For example, if the atmosphere around the team becomes toxically dysfunctional or simply suffers from low morale, that's going to have an impact on OSU landing top guys whether or not Day has a good eye for talent.  
 

On the non-recruiting factors:

 

Actually that's where I see OSU as potentially being the most vunerable.  This may be wishful thinking on my part, but here's a straight-up FACT:  no tree grows to heaven.  The VAST majority of seemingly invincible empires eventually crash & burn in pretty quick and dramatic fashion.  The reason is, many of them suffer from institutional rot from within first.  And once the brittle exterior shell of invincibility starts to crack, the whole damned thing starts to come apart quickly.

At this point I don't have any expectation that OSU will be rocked by some scandal where the NCAA or FBI takes them down.  They survived the Urban Meyer thing, so in my view any external 3rd party rule enforcement isn't going to do the job.  But I can easily see OSU going the model of internal institutional rot first, then the whole thing comes crashing down at a seemingly disproportionally smaller external threat.

Specifically, I think the entire OSU apparatus may be spoiled rotten. 

As a result, there is a good chance the fan base has unrealistically high expectations of their football program that borders on delusional.   I also think there's a chance that the majority of the coaches & vast majority of the players don't know how to react properly when they're under a tremendous amount of adversity.  Yes, championship caliber teams and fan bases have high expectations and take losses hard and use them to learn and for future motivation.  But when expectations are delusionally high and entitlement sets in, that can be a recipe for a total psychological breakdown once the pressure gets turned up enough.

We saw some of the OSU fan base lose their shit when they lost those head scratchers to Iowa & Purdue recently.  But can you IMAGINE the disproportional amount of panic that could set in if Michigan somehow manages to beat rookie head coach Ryan Day for the first few years in a row?

What happens when the players are lambasted on campus, on social media & around Columbus if they end up dropping 2 or 3 games in a row to Michigan?  Or drop 3 or 4 games within a regular season generally? 

Will the locker room full of 4/5 star kids who've been idolized since age 10 become humble, support each other, and work on improving as a team?    Or will resentments start to boil over and will an epic round of finger-pointing ensue? 

Maybe the 5 star recruit or underclassman player is willing to be 2nd or 3rd string for a juggernaut OSU team that's the toast of the town and destined for the CFP most years.  But if OSU's locker room is suddenly toxic, they're going 10-2 or 9-3 & losing to Michigan half the time, and the student body is constantly heaping verbal abuse on them as a result, that 5 star kid may just decide he'd rather go to another school.  Maybe to another school with a pressure cooker enviornment where he's 2nd or 3rd string, but at least it'll have the 11-1 or 12-0 records and associated glory to go with it.  Or maybe to a Power 5 school that goes 10-2 or 9-3 but where the fanbase has reasonable expectations & morale is high.   

Similarly, when there is a superstar upperclassman player who is  torn on his decision to stay for another year or declare for the NFL draft, is there *any* chance he'll stay if the team dynamics are toxic and morale is low?

What about the coaching staff?  Will the all star coaching staff full of insanely ambitious coaches hunker down to turn the program around?  Or will the young ambitious coaches start jumping like rats on a sinking ship before their resumes get too blemished & prevent future upward mobility?

 

At any rate, I know all of this may be wishful thinking.  Maybe this is just a cruel simulated world created by OSU fans to watch Michigan fans suffer in perpetuity.  But probably not. 

 

The reality is, NO tree grows to heaven.  EVERY seemingly unstoppable empire in human history eventually has fallen. 

 

And in a significant majority of the time, the fall of the might oak or the unstoppable empire seemed rapid to the outside world when it occured, but was in reality preceded by pervasive internal rot.

 

Hard times create strong men;

Strong men create good times;

Good times create weak men;

Weak men create hard times.

 

And The Ohio State Universitiy football team and fan base has experienced some INCREDIBLY good times over the past 15+ years.