They'll handle it like any other trademark enforcement, right? I mean, the more words you put on the apparel the less likely "THE" is going to be viewed as identifying source. Right? Trademark is always a totality of the circumstances test as to consumer identification of source and, in that sense, fundamentally commonsense. The fact is that almost everyone on this thread, when they hear "THE" in the context of sports associates that word w/ Ohio State. It identifies source. BUT, it probably only does so ALONE. It is, for example, highly unlikely that anyone would confuse the source of "THE" w/ the source of "The University of Michigan".
So, I think it's unsuprising that the mark was registered and I think it's fairly clear that it's scope is very limited, even within Class 025.
The #1 thing Vegas wants is a good number. They'll adjust as bets come in if needed, but they'd rather have a good number and bet against the public. That's why you'll hear things like "Vegas needs "X team" to win" or whatever. In an one-off game, it's not good business sense. With a high enough sample size -- which they obviously get -- they feel waaaaay better trusting their model and lines than the general public.
The line drop doesn't really mean that much to me -- if it went to 7 that'd be a big deal. But, the open at 6 is what I really like. That's what they truly think. They can bump it up to 7.5 or 8.5 and still be safe from the smart money, so they're good.
Now, in 2019 Ohio State was only -9. So, overall...meh
I don't know how much of a difference it made, but Garret Wilson didn't play against UNL and he's probably Stroud's favorite guy. They just stalled in the red zone. That's how M wins. Hold them to FGs. 5 TDs beats 3 TDs and 3 FGs.
If the rankings really are some sort of Covid-induced lottery of randomness then one would expect that Ohio State, Alabama, Georgia and the other recruiting big dogs are signing an "outlier" number of 3* kids. Well, I mean, if you assume that those schools actually evaluate players and try to bring in the most talented kids possible.
And, to be clear, the ranking is assessed at the time of signing, not after some bump or something. I'm not exactly seeing that. In fact, it's just more of the same from those schools. That suggests to me that, as always, it's better, in the aggregate, to have 4/5-star kids than 3-star kids. I'm sure that Boston College fans are talking about what a great job Hafley is doing finding 3* diamonds in the rough. And, hell, Rutgers fan(s) as well. YMMV, but I'm not buying into the massive rankings devaluation theory.
As for Loveland -- he can play. I'm very happy with this particular development.
Honestly, I should never sweat a trip to Piscataway. Ever. I don't care if bubonic plague-infested killer gorillas are beseiging us by land and ebola-breathing dragons are bombing us from above.
I have no choice but to join you and cling to the covid hope. I'd like to see a winner. want to believe JH can deliver that, and have no choice, at the moment, but to believe that if I want to maintain hope. But it's going to be really hard for me to unsee 2020.
And OSU also lost to Iowa. I think they are 69-4 in conference games since 2012 and, apparently, they should have been 73-0.
I wouldn't care as much about JH occasionally losing a game he shouldn't -- like once very two seasons -- if he was winning left and right. My biggest problem is that he so rarely beats teams he shouldn't and, IMO, the trajectory of the program is clear. And I just can't get over how bad they were this year -- covid or not. If they had played their final 3 games, they're 2-7 with 1 win being an OT thriller at Rutgers thanks, in part, to Schiano's OT buffoonery. I just can't waive a wand and say, eh, covid -- on to 2021! They were inexcusably bad.
But, hey, we return a ton for next season, so I'm hoping he can right the ship. But, I don't think we're heading in the right direction.
No. I don't think draft picks in a single NFL draft have much bearing on whether they coach. You, apparently, do. But, e.g., I don't think Ogeron is a great coach because LSU had 14 picks.
If you were going to rely on NFL draft picks as some sort of metric then you would, presumably, want to take both (a) as large a sample size as possible; and (b) any other information that further elucidates the analysis.
Perhaps you think a 1st round pick=7th round pick. In fact, you clearly do by simply saying "10" and mocking any sort of further examination. The NFL disagrees with you, but, hey.
What you have is a genuine wafer thin #hottake defense of the staff. If you want to make the point about NFL draft icks, then make it with some authority and not some sort of weak, nearly evidence-free twitter take.
IMO, the biggest problem is recruiting. Don't get me wrong -- it's fine -- for 9-3 seasons. If you're talking CFP, it needs to markedly better. So, M simply can't have the identity of a NFL factory because there is zero way Harbaugh can recruit at that level. Zero. IMO, he still essentially recruiting like he was at Stanford -- taking some higher ranked kids where he can but also try to outsmart other coaches with diamonds in the rough. That's all well and good for the P12, I guuess, but Ohio State is recruiting actual known diamonds by the dozen. What I'm not entirely sure of is whether he chooses to recruit lower rated kids (and by "lower" I mean outside the top 150 -- so, still good -- 9-3 good) or whether he's forced down the food chain because he simply can't recruit. It's far easier to beat out Sparty or Iowa or Penn State for a kid than it is to beat out Bama, OSU, etc.
The other thing that can't possibly be excused is QB. I mean, there's just no way to whistle past that graveyard. JH has had ample opportunity to bring in his recruits and, still, after 6 years, the best QB he's had at M is a transfer who spent 3 year being tutored by the "Genius of Ferentz." It's horrific.
I do think they need to formulate a vision for defense because there is almost zero alignment with what Brown wants to do and with the players he's able to bring in. (Clemson's vision, btw, wrt to DTs is to recruit a gaggle of the baddest players in the country and develop and start them).
After Year 6, though, I think it's increasingly clear that whatever vision Harbaugh and M come up with, execution alignment is ceiling'd out around 9-3. I don't really see a way around that.
I'd think that Benny would look at M's lack of DTs and think "playing time!" That's a concern for a lot of recruits. But, I guess not him.
The why doesn't really matter especially to the extent it takes away from the what. This is a bad result. JH still has a solid class and, if he gets Edwards, will be right around 10 or so.
Al Washington did a great, great job with ZH. And M was definitely a strong option. That said, I'm not sure anyone can say who was the choice prior to the Game (other than ZH). He really like Larry Johnson, too.
As for the 2018 game, ordinarily I'd agree that one game doesn't change a recruit's mind, but man. That game was a program(s)-entrenching eye-opener. I'm not sure ZH could realistically look at M and think that they'd be the better program while he was there.
Urban Meyer retiring was also a factor, but probably overstated. And, in the end, Ryan Day poached AW, so ZH ended up getting pretty lucky.
This is exactly right. This thread includes a host of reasons why Ohio State is out-recruiting M (and nearly everyone else), but I'm not sure I've seen anyone say "Urban Meyer was an insanely good recruiter and Ryan Day appears to have learned from him."
I have to think that, like with most other talents in the this world, recruiting ability is distributed in a bell curve. I assume that as you get more and more elite you end up closer to the high end of the tail. But there is still what I think has to be an indisputable fact -- not every coach is the same when it comes to recruiting. Some are better than others. Some are way better than others.
I think it's dangerous to just throw your hands up and say "institutional advantages." That means you'll only evaluate a coach relative to what can be expected from him at M, not relative to others. If you're going to chalk everything up to institutional advantages then there is nothing Coach Harbaugh can do to overcome Ryan Day and Ohio State. Therefore he's not responsible for the gap. He's only responsible for recruiting as well as the institutional constraints at M allow him to.
I refuse to buy that. I'm generally pleased with Coach Harbaugh's recruiting to date. I would like to see him "stack" a few more classes -- put together strong classes back-to-back-to-back instead of have a weaker class intermixed. But, I think he's going to get there. But, if he doesn't then he's accountable. Period.
There's not a single first round game in that bracket that I want to see. And, I'm not sure there's even a 2nd round game that I want to see. I also think there isn't a single team outside the top 3 that can win 5 straight games.
Pretty simple answer -- they have Joe Burrow. He also made the full-on offensive switch this season. But, it's Joe Burrow. And their gaggle of super-talented skill players. And someone else mentioned OSU, and it's the QB their, too. They were correct re JTB -- he scares no one. He's far more Krenzel/Tresselball than wreaker of destruction. Ryan Day's shift to Haskins and Fields (and whoever else) is the problem. A real problem.
That's why Gattis is so important to M.
But, yeah, Joe Burrow, man. Their defense ain't any better than M's. Their offense, though...
Thank you for the response. Great stuff. Specifically, your point on that Dobbins route on 3rd and 13 (or something like that) is great. It was obviously a pick play, but Gray never gives them a real chance to make the call. I mean, they could have -- he did get hit (I think by Wilson going off memory), but you're so right -- he misplays it badly after that happens. Otherwise, it's a depressing take on the Hobbseian issues OSU creates for most defenses, let alone one that has a hole at DT.
Two other quick comments -- I don't understand why Olave splits time with Mack. Maybe Mack is a better blocker? Mack did have a great catch to keep a drive going, but Olave is so much better. And, man, Hurst. That guy was so good. He gave OSU fits.
My own feeling is that Ryan Day has made OSU more problematic with Haskins/Fields. Meyer was a neanderthal and unimaginative He wanted his running QB and that was what he went to when it was crunch time. I think Day's approach expands and threatens the field more. NFL caliber arms will do that. Meh. Enough of that.
Hopefully Gattis can get DMac where he needs to be and M can start to do more of the same things. Optimistic about that.
Good stuff. I'd like to see a breakdown of 2nd half drives when OSU shifted out of their comically bad 4-4 approach and went more straight up with more pressure. I'd also like to see a breakdown of OSU's offense on a key drive. In particular, pick a drive with several key 3rd down conversions -- their 3rd conversion rate was huge. And even if you don't illustrate anything particularly interesting, you can still illustrate the talent gap (oh, look, here's IZ again and there go the DTs).
But, there's no doubt M's first drive was brilliantly done and you did a nice job of showing that.
Franklin also inherited a massive rebuilding job. He walked into a far worse situation than Harbaugh (at least, IMO). O'Brien had done some rebuilding, but it was a disaster.
Ohio State basically loses their entire defense. There is no way that even OSU replaces some of the kids they're losing. None. They'll be good on offense, but it'll be more like 2018.
M is right there. I just hate that they have to play in Columbus because I think M will be slightly better.
Penix is done for the season. It'll be Peyton Ramsey again. As far as backups go, he's about the best in the B10 -- there's not much appreciable difference between the way IU's offense plays with him vs. Penix.
Ramsey and IU will throw their routes and Stevie Smith is good. But, I expect Don Brown to shut them down. He's on a mission. He's figured out how to play the hand he's been dealt.
I'll be petrified, however, if Smith and IU are running IZ all day. But that won't happen.
Exactly. If the DTs can hold up then OSU is going to have a ton of problems. Fields hasn't had to play under pressure at all. Don Brown is going to put him under pressure and, hopefully, M's offense can put him under real game pressure. Let's see how he does when it's tied in the 3rd.
Villanova was just terrible. I'm not that impressed with OSU. I watched them play UC and they were god awful. And they're still bad in the halfcourt. Nova was just awful on defense and couldn't hit water falling out of a boat.
Carton ain't no 1 and done. Dude looks like he's still in HS. Good quicks, but no way he has the body to play in the NBA.
It would seem the evidence in this case warranted a small suspension. Ohio State and Chase Young had to establish that loan was repaid in April. There's no two ways about that. Has anyone seen any credible evidence that this didn't happen? It's pretty easy to infer that the NCAA did find credible evidence that it did happen.
Further, if Ohio State were using boosters to pay kids right and left -- and I'm not saying they aren't -- then why wasn't this handled by a booster with untraceable cash like every other school does that pays kids? And why on earth would there be a record of Chase Young repaying it?
There's also no credible evidence this loan came from an agent. There's a Pro Football tweet. That's it. Again, it'd seem like Ohio State and CY would have to disclose to the NCAA the name of the person that loaned him the money and they would make the determination as to whether he was an agent.
OSU and CY are entirely misleading about "family friend" though. The loaner may have been a family friend, but the admitted facts establish that he didn't know CY before OSU started recruiting him so he couldn't be a "family friend" in any sense that mattered for the NCAA. If the guy had known CY before OSU started recruiting him then it's not a violation at all. I guess that's why he was suspended instead of cleared entirely.
In any event, I don't this thread. Well, I especially don't get the one OSU guy flaming everyone. WTF? But, I don't get the outrage on this one. For Pryor, especially, and Tressel. Sure. Hang them high. If CY's story is what it is -- and I haven't seen anything credible to say that it isn't -- then this isn't some sort of moral outrage.
I should also note -- I hate the NCAA's preposterous amateurism rules. So, there's that. Anyway, my few mgo points are surely about the ebb away. Such is life.
Maybe. But it really depends, IMO, on how well Don Brown neutralizes IU's offense. M is going to boss the LoS and run the ball really effectively. I'd expect them to really limit IU's running game, and I can't see Don Brown getting beat by dudes named Penix and Whop.
BUT, if M's offense flounders a bit and Penix creates yards with his legs, then it'll be another death slog Bloomington game.
Essentially, Penn State has to lose to Indiana AND Rutgers, AND then has to beat Ohio State in Columbus.
OR, Penn State needs to lose 2 to Minnesota/IU/Rutgers and Ohio State needs to lose to either Maryland or Rutgers.
So, one of these two things must happen (plus other variables): Rutgers has to beat Penn State or Ohio State has to lose to Maryland or Rutgers. That's it.
I'd prefer winning percentage with a minimum number of games played threshold. I mean, that's what they do for baseball for batting average in a season. I'd also prefer national titles to either.
Or, put another way, do prefer being Miami, OH (644 wins) or Miami, Florida (622 wins).
Alabama is also charging hard. Fortunately they have 29 wins vacated.
IMO, it's a combination of his optimistic outlook re Patterson and Gattis as well as pessimistic outlook re Ohio State. No one thought Fields would be better than Patterson at Mgo and certainly not Brian. Further, Brian considered Ryan Day hire as smacking of "desperation." It seems obvious that the former is way wrong. Time will tell with respect to the latter, but it's certainly looking like Day knows what he's doing (while also inheriting a ferrari). So whatever expectations he had for The Game are now radically, I mean radically revised since August. And that has to be more than just mildly disappointing. Especially in the context of the past 15 outings.
Zach Smith and Grimes did have a "blow up" (or, a coach yelled at player). Smith was riding him hard. But I think it's entirely clear he never used racist language. Apparently, Smith thought Grimes wasn't playing hard enough. After the blow up he was left off the travel squad for the Rutgers game. He flew back to Florida that weekend. OSU flew down to try to convince him to come back. To no avail.
His mother's cancer was a concern, but that's not what drove his decision. Once the decision was made to transfer it was up to Grimes to convince the NCAA the he shouldn't sit out a year.
Ohio State never officially said anything about why he left the team, but it was widely known.
I think it's a certainty M will play OSU for the East. There's no way M is losing to BOTH MSU and Penn State. None. And there's no way Sparty is sweeping M and OSU.
I think M is going to steamroll to 10-1. I think OSU is more likely to lose a game along the way, but that won't change the fact they'll play for the East. And M is winning.
I think it'll be Iowa. Really like how they're playing. They have to kicking themselves for letting that Wisconsin game get away. As it is, the need to be +1 over Wisky the rest of the way which will require a win at HV.
Romain Bardet amongst others is on Strava. It's pretty cool to look at their Tour rides. Of course,no HR or Power data, but still. He did Alpe d'Heuz at 41:23 with a preposterous VAM of 1593. I can VAM 1593 for a half-mile climb. Doing it for 8.64 miles...LOL. FWIW, he KOM'd the segment.
A quick thought that tries to reconcile different personal view. \
Woodson (and Marcus Ray) were both Ohio kids. The Game was intensely personal to both of them and they were leaders on that team. Ray, in particular, delighted in coming home to Columbus and gloating. Further, it's unlikely that all teams focused on The Game with the exact same intensity. So, I actually wouldn't be surprised at all if those teams were more intensely focused on OSU than other teams. If there was some magical way to quantify the ethereal.
That said, I certainly think the current teams take the game serious enough. I'm sure it's the one game on their schedule they'd rather win than all others. The question isn't "Are you taking The Game as serious as Charles Woodson did?" -- it's "Are you taking The Game as serious as you need to?"
Just a thought. I can definitely see where Woodson is coming from based on his own experience, but the notion that JH's teams just don't care enough is also silly.
The B10 baseball schedule is even more variable than hoops, if you can believe that. You only play 8 of the 13 other teams. M has played the bottom 3 teams and don't have much in terms of non-conference. Indiana has played 4 of the top 5 teams in the B10.
Purdue is a good opportunity to get some more solid wins.
It's not Clemson. It's Penn State. M can make it a three-way race. He's also not a game-player by all accounts. If he's visiting then he's taking a serious look.
His track times are stupid. 10.82/100 and 21.55/200. Defensive End.
Someone in the B10 East will get a freak athlete...and he's not a lock for OSU.
OSU will most likely bring in Grant Gunnell in 2019 and Jack Miller in 2020. Those are pass-first QBs. As is Haskins. Burrow is more athletic and a better runner, but it seems like he'll end up grad-transferring (Nebraska?).
They will use the QB as a constraint, but it will be a different look. The thing about JTB, though, is that he wasn't a great running threat. He was a great "inside runner; get me 5 yards" guy, but he had no real juice. He wasn't a threat to punish the slightest loss of gap integrity with a 50 yard run. But, UFM trusted the crap out of him to get 2-3 hard yards.
Removing JTB removes UFM's biggest (and maybe only) port in a storm. They will, almost necessarily, be more varied w/o JTB. I'm not sure, though, how that will work out for UFM. It might be that Haskins provides more RPO constraint options than JTB did (I can't imagine him not). Either way, you have to think there will be significant growing pains which may not be worked out by the time they play TCU.
That's a really weak chart. Ok, so Louisiana has 2.6x the avg number of blue chip recruits and "only" 2.5x the avg number of NFL players. And Pennsylvania is at 0.8 and 0.9 respectively. Ok, so maybe recruiting rankings slightly overvalue Louisiana and undervalue Pennsylvania if you're looking strictly at NFL players as the measurement.
The entire southeast is still well above average in terms of NFL players produced. Setting aside the silly DC and Delaware examples, the top 6 NFL producing states per capita are SEC states. Alabama has produced more NFL players than Michigan as well as Illinois.
So, I would very much suggest that the gap in quantity is pretty much as big as it would appear.
Ohio State will start a QB from the 2016 class. The same year as, you know, Peters.
Alabama will start Tua and Georgia will start Fromm. I don't think it's a radical idea to expect a 3rd year QB to be ready to play. Your mileage may vary.
247 actually provides you with a specific average recruit value. OSU was in the 94s an Michigan was in the 89s.
The Composite team score increases less with each additional recruit. The Composite team score also emphasizes top-top players more. Georgia and OSU each signed 26 and OSU had the higher average recruiting ranking (by 0.06). But, Georgia signed more top 30 type kids and finished 6 points higher in the 247 alogrithm.
Ohio State signed 13 kids ranked higher than anyone M signed. I don't know how close the classes are in actual talent -- but if you're using 247 composite rankings as your measure, they weren't at all close.
To Illustrate the fallacy of this approach, last year's M class was 296/30 = 9.8. The year before was 280/28=10. If you think this year's TCU class was better than last year's M class you're crazy.
Recent Comments
They'll handle it like any other trademark enforcement, right? I mean, the more words you put on the apparel the less likely "THE" is going to be viewed as identifying source. Right? Trademark is always a totality of the circumstances test as to consumer identification of source and, in that sense, fundamentally commonsense. The fact is that almost everyone on this thread, when they hear "THE" in the context of sports associates that word w/ Ohio State. It identifies source. BUT, it probably only does so ALONE. It is, for example, highly unlikely that anyone would confuse the source of "THE" w/ the source of "The University of Michigan".
So, I think it's unsuprising that the mark was registered and I think it's fairly clear that it's scope is very limited, even within Class 025.
Innis is Ohio State, MAYBE Alabama and functionally 0% for M. I mean, I guess "there's a chance", but c'mon. That's completely insane.
Some of the other stuff is likely in play; just not that.
The #1 thing Vegas wants is a good number. They'll adjust as bets come in if needed, but they'd rather have a good number and bet against the public. That's why you'll hear things like "Vegas needs "X team" to win" or whatever. In an one-off game, it's not good business sense. With a high enough sample size -- which they obviously get -- they feel waaaaay better trusting their model and lines than the general public.
The line drop doesn't really mean that much to me -- if it went to 7 that'd be a big deal. But, the open at 6 is what I really like. That's what they truly think. They can bump it up to 7.5 or 8.5 and still be safe from the smart money, so they're good.
Now, in 2019 Ohio State was only -9. So, overall...meh
I don't know how much of a difference it made, but Garret Wilson didn't play against UNL and he's probably Stroud's favorite guy. They just stalled in the red zone. That's how M wins. Hold them to FGs. 5 TDs beats 3 TDs and 3 FGs.
If the rankings really are some sort of Covid-induced lottery of randomness then one would expect that Ohio State, Alabama, Georgia and the other recruiting big dogs are signing an "outlier" number of 3* kids. Well, I mean, if you assume that those schools actually evaluate players and try to bring in the most talented kids possible.
And, to be clear, the ranking is assessed at the time of signing, not after some bump or something. I'm not exactly seeing that. In fact, it's just more of the same from those schools. That suggests to me that, as always, it's better, in the aggregate, to have 4/5-star kids than 3-star kids. I'm sure that Boston College fans are talking about what a great job Hafley is doing finding 3* diamonds in the rough. And, hell, Rutgers fan(s) as well. YMMV, but I'm not buying into the massive rankings devaluation theory.
As for Loveland -- he can play. I'm very happy with this particular development.
M doesn't need kids OSU doesn't want. M needs kids OSU wants. Full. Stop.
Honestly, I should never sweat a trip to Piscataway. Ever. I don't care if bubonic plague-infested killer gorillas are beseiging us by land and ebola-breathing dragons are bombing us from above.
I have no choice but to join you and cling to the covid hope. I'd like to see a winner. want to believe JH can deliver that, and have no choice, at the moment, but to believe that if I want to maintain hope. But it's going to be really hard for me to unsee 2020.
And OSU also lost to Iowa. I think they are 69-4 in conference games since 2012 and, apparently, they should have been 73-0.
I wouldn't care as much about JH occasionally losing a game he shouldn't -- like once very two seasons -- if he was winning left and right. My biggest problem is that he so rarely beats teams he shouldn't and, IMO, the trajectory of the program is clear. And I just can't get over how bad they were this year -- covid or not. If they had played their final 3 games, they're 2-7 with 1 win being an OT thriller at Rutgers thanks, in part, to Schiano's OT buffoonery. I just can't waive a wand and say, eh, covid -- on to 2021! They were inexcusably bad.
But, hey, we return a ton for next season, so I'm hoping he can right the ship. But, I don't think we're heading in the right direction.
Had to scramble about remembering my password, not remembering it, resetting it and then logging in....but the upvote is thoroughly deserved.
No. I don't think draft picks in a single NFL draft have much bearing on whether they coach. You, apparently, do. But, e.g., I don't think Ogeron is a great coach because LSU had 14 picks.
If you were going to rely on NFL draft picks as some sort of metric then you would, presumably, want to take both (a) as large a sample size as possible; and (b) any other information that further elucidates the analysis.
Perhaps you think a 1st round pick=7th round pick. In fact, you clearly do by simply saying "10" and mocking any sort of further examination. The NFL disagrees with you, but, hey.
What you have is a genuine wafer thin #hottake defense of the staff. If you want to make the point about NFL draft icks, then make it with some authority and not some sort of weak, nearly evidence-free twitter take.
OSU also had 10. So, "except LSU and OSU." And, of course, the bulk of the picks from those two schools were in the first 3 rounds.
Only way Indiana is going to the Rose Bowl is if they make the CFP. Bad timing for Allen's boys. Best they can hope for is Fiesta.
Exactly right re vision/execution.
IMO, the biggest problem is recruiting. Don't get me wrong -- it's fine -- for 9-3 seasons. If you're talking CFP, it needs to markedly better. So, M simply can't have the identity of a NFL factory because there is zero way Harbaugh can recruit at that level. Zero. IMO, he still essentially recruiting like he was at Stanford -- taking some higher ranked kids where he can but also try to outsmart other coaches with diamonds in the rough. That's all well and good for the P12, I guuess, but Ohio State is recruiting actual known diamonds by the dozen. What I'm not entirely sure of is whether he chooses to recruit lower rated kids (and by "lower" I mean outside the top 150 -- so, still good -- 9-3 good) or whether he's forced down the food chain because he simply can't recruit. It's far easier to beat out Sparty or Iowa or Penn State for a kid than it is to beat out Bama, OSU, etc.
The other thing that can't possibly be excused is QB. I mean, there's just no way to whistle past that graveyard. JH has had ample opportunity to bring in his recruits and, still, after 6 years, the best QB he's had at M is a transfer who spent 3 year being tutored by the "Genius of Ferentz." It's horrific.
I do think they need to formulate a vision for defense because there is almost zero alignment with what Brown wants to do and with the players he's able to bring in. (Clemson's vision, btw, wrt to DTs is to recruit a gaggle of the baddest players in the country and develop and start them).
After Year 6, though, I think it's increasingly clear that whatever vision Harbaugh and M come up with, execution alignment is ceiling'd out around 9-3. I don't really see a way around that.
I'd think that Benny would look at M's lack of DTs and think "playing time!" That's a concern for a lot of recruits. But, I guess not him.
The why doesn't really matter especially to the extent it takes away from the what. This is a bad result. JH still has a solid class and, if he gets Edwards, will be right around 10 or so.
I'm a little concerned about 2022.
Al Washington did a great, great job with ZH. And M was definitely a strong option. That said, I'm not sure anyone can say who was the choice prior to the Game (other than ZH). He really like Larry Johnson, too.
As for the 2018 game, ordinarily I'd agree that one game doesn't change a recruit's mind, but man. That game was a program(s)-entrenching eye-opener. I'm not sure ZH could realistically look at M and think that they'd be the better program while he was there.
Urban Meyer retiring was also a factor, but probably overstated. And, in the end, Ryan Day poached AW, so ZH ended up getting pretty lucky.
This is exactly right. This thread includes a host of reasons why Ohio State is out-recruiting M (and nearly everyone else), but I'm not sure I've seen anyone say "Urban Meyer was an insanely good recruiter and Ryan Day appears to have learned from him."
I have to think that, like with most other talents in the this world, recruiting ability is distributed in a bell curve. I assume that as you get more and more elite you end up closer to the high end of the tail. But there is still what I think has to be an indisputable fact -- not every coach is the same when it comes to recruiting. Some are better than others. Some are way better than others.
I think it's dangerous to just throw your hands up and say "institutional advantages." That means you'll only evaluate a coach relative to what can be expected from him at M, not relative to others. If you're going to chalk everything up to institutional advantages then there is nothing Coach Harbaugh can do to overcome Ryan Day and Ohio State. Therefore he's not responsible for the gap. He's only responsible for recruiting as well as the institutional constraints at M allow him to.
I refuse to buy that. I'm generally pleased with Coach Harbaugh's recruiting to date. I would like to see him "stack" a few more classes -- put together strong classes back-to-back-to-back instead of have a weaker class intermixed. But, I think he's going to get there. But, if he doesn't then he's accountable. Period.
Unfortunately, it's more borderline top 10 than solidly 10.
Last 4 classes -- 5, 22, 8, 14. And this year will probably be in the 8-12 range.
But, even bottom top 10 is still plenty good.
There's not a single first round game in that bracket that I want to see. And, I'm not sure there's even a 2nd round game that I want to see. I also think there isn't a single team outside the top 3 that can win 5 straight games.
In any event, 8 is the maximum.
Pretty simple answer -- they have Joe Burrow. He also made the full-on offensive switch this season. But, it's Joe Burrow. And their gaggle of super-talented skill players. And someone else mentioned OSU, and it's the QB their, too. They were correct re JTB -- he scares no one. He's far more Krenzel/Tresselball than wreaker of destruction. Ryan Day's shift to Haskins and Fields (and whoever else) is the problem. A real problem.
That's why Gattis is so important to M.
But, yeah, Joe Burrow, man. Their defense ain't any better than M's. Their offense, though...
Thank you for the response. Great stuff. Specifically, your point on that Dobbins route on 3rd and 13 (or something like that) is great. It was obviously a pick play, but Gray never gives them a real chance to make the call. I mean, they could have -- he did get hit (I think by Wilson going off memory), but you're so right -- he misplays it badly after that happens. Otherwise, it's a depressing take on the Hobbseian issues OSU creates for most defenses, let alone one that has a hole at DT.
Two other quick comments -- I don't understand why Olave splits time with Mack. Maybe Mack is a better blocker? Mack did have a great catch to keep a drive going, but Olave is so much better. And, man, Hurst. That guy was so good. He gave OSU fits.
My own feeling is that Ryan Day has made OSU more problematic with Haskins/Fields. Meyer was a neanderthal and unimaginative He wanted his running QB and that was what he went to when it was crunch time. I think Day's approach expands and threatens the field more. NFL caliber arms will do that. Meh. Enough of that.
Hopefully Gattis can get DMac where he needs to be and M can start to do more of the same things. Optimistic about that.
Good stuff. I'd like to see a breakdown of 2nd half drives when OSU shifted out of their comically bad 4-4 approach and went more straight up with more pressure. I'd also like to see a breakdown of OSU's offense on a key drive. In particular, pick a drive with several key 3rd down conversions -- their 3rd conversion rate was huge. And even if you don't illustrate anything particularly interesting, you can still illustrate the talent gap (oh, look, here's IZ again and there go the DTs).
But, there's no doubt M's first drive was brilliantly done and you did a nice job of showing that.
Franklin also inherited a massive rebuilding job. He walked into a far worse situation than Harbaugh (at least, IMO). O'Brien had done some rebuilding, but it was a disaster.
Ohio State basically loses their entire defense. There is no way that even OSU replaces some of the kids they're losing. None. They'll be good on offense, but it'll be more like 2018.
M is right there. I just hate that they have to play in Columbus because I think M will be slightly better.
Penix is done for the season. It'll be Peyton Ramsey again. As far as backups go, he's about the best in the B10 -- there's not much appreciable difference between the way IU's offense plays with him vs. Penix.
Ramsey and IU will throw their routes and Stevie Smith is good. But, I expect Don Brown to shut them down. He's on a mission. He's figured out how to play the hand he's been dealt.
I'll be petrified, however, if Smith and IU are running IZ all day. But that won't happen.
Exactly. If the DTs can hold up then OSU is going to have a ton of problems. Fields hasn't had to play under pressure at all. Don Brown is going to put him under pressure and, hopefully, M's offense can put him under real game pressure. Let's see how he does when it's tied in the 3rd.
Villanova was just terrible. I'm not that impressed with OSU. I watched them play UC and they were god awful. And they're still bad in the halfcourt. Nova was just awful on defense and couldn't hit water falling out of a boat.
Carton ain't no 1 and done. Dude looks like he's still in HS. Good quicks, but no way he has the body to play in the NBA.
M will beat them this year.
It would seem the evidence in this case warranted a small suspension. Ohio State and Chase Young had to establish that loan was repaid in April. There's no two ways about that. Has anyone seen any credible evidence that this didn't happen? It's pretty easy to infer that the NCAA did find credible evidence that it did happen.
Further, if Ohio State were using boosters to pay kids right and left -- and I'm not saying they aren't -- then why wasn't this handled by a booster with untraceable cash like every other school does that pays kids? And why on earth would there be a record of Chase Young repaying it?
There's also no credible evidence this loan came from an agent. There's a Pro Football tweet. That's it. Again, it'd seem like Ohio State and CY would have to disclose to the NCAA the name of the person that loaned him the money and they would make the determination as to whether he was an agent.
OSU and CY are entirely misleading about "family friend" though. The loaner may have been a family friend, but the admitted facts establish that he didn't know CY before OSU started recruiting him so he couldn't be a "family friend" in any sense that mattered for the NCAA. If the guy had known CY before OSU started recruiting him then it's not a violation at all. I guess that's why he was suspended instead of cleared entirely.
In any event, I don't this thread. Well, I especially don't get the one OSU guy flaming everyone. WTF? But, I don't get the outrage on this one. For Pryor, especially, and Tressel. Sure. Hang them high. If CY's story is what it is -- and I haven't seen anything credible to say that it isn't -- then this isn't some sort of moral outrage.
I should also note -- I hate the NCAA's preposterous amateurism rules. So, there's that. Anyway, my few mgo points are surely about the ebb away. Such is life.
Maybe. But it really depends, IMO, on how well Don Brown neutralizes IU's offense. M is going to boss the LoS and run the ball really effectively. I'd expect them to really limit IU's running game, and I can't see Don Brown getting beat by dudes named Penix and Whop.
BUT, if M's offense flounders a bit and Penix creates yards with his legs, then it'll be another death slog Bloomington game.
Rutgers!
You've got to be kidding. I trust you'll be betting on Penn State in Columbus, then. Godspeed with that.
Even that wouldn't get M to Indy!
Essentially, Penn State has to lose to Indiana AND Rutgers, AND then has to beat Ohio State in Columbus.
OR, Penn State needs to lose 2 to Minnesota/IU/Rutgers and Ohio State needs to lose to either Maryland or Rutgers.
So, one of these two things must happen (plus other variables): Rutgers has to beat Penn State or Ohio State has to lose to Maryland or Rutgers. That's it.
I'm not even saying there's a chance.
I'd prefer winning percentage with a minimum number of games played threshold. I mean, that's what they do for baseball for batting average in a season. I'd also prefer national titles to either.
Or, put another way, do prefer being Miami, OH (644 wins) or Miami, Florida (622 wins).
Alabama is also charging hard. Fortunately they have 29 wins vacated.
Fortunately they have 12 wins that don't count from 2010.
IMO, it's a combination of his optimistic outlook re Patterson and Gattis as well as pessimistic outlook re Ohio State. No one thought Fields would be better than Patterson at Mgo and certainly not Brian. Further, Brian considered Ryan Day hire as smacking of "desperation." It seems obvious that the former is way wrong. Time will tell with respect to the latter, but it's certainly looking like Day knows what he's doing (while also inheriting a ferrari). So whatever expectations he had for The Game are now radically, I mean radically revised since August. And that has to be more than just mildly disappointing. Especially in the context of the past 15 outings.
Zach Smith and Grimes did have a "blow up" (or, a coach yelled at player). Smith was riding him hard. But I think it's entirely clear he never used racist language. Apparently, Smith thought Grimes wasn't playing hard enough. After the blow up he was left off the travel squad for the Rutgers game. He flew back to Florida that weekend. OSU flew down to try to convince him to come back. To no avail.
His mother's cancer was a concern, but that's not what drove his decision. Once the decision was made to transfer it was up to Grimes to convince the NCAA the he shouldn't sit out a year.
Ohio State never officially said anything about why he left the team, but it was widely known.
I think it's a certainty M will play OSU for the East. There's no way M is losing to BOTH MSU and Penn State. None. And there's no way Sparty is sweeping M and OSU.
I think M is going to steamroll to 10-1. I think OSU is more likely to lose a game along the way, but that won't change the fact they'll play for the East. And M is winning.
I think it'll be Iowa. Really like how they're playing. They have to kicking themselves for letting that Wisconsin game get away. As it is, the need to be +1 over Wisky the rest of the way which will require a win at HV.
Columbus and Birmingham are the two best markets for CFB TV ratings in the country.
Last year's Fiesta Bowl (Washington-Penn State), had a better rating in Columbus than SEATTLE.
I'd expect Birmingham was in the top 10 markets for the Wisky-M game.
I thought the 25 hard cap rule was coming into play this year. You can no longer backcount early enrollees.
*Edit -- this is more of question than a statement
Romain Bardet amongst others is on Strava. It's pretty cool to look at their Tour rides. Of course,no HR or Power data, but still. He did Alpe d'Heuz at 41:23 with a preposterous VAM of 1593. I can VAM 1593 for a half-mile climb. Doing it for 8.64 miles...LOL. FWIW, he KOM'd the segment.
https://www.strava.com/pros/1630132
A quick thought that tries to reconcile different personal view. \
Woodson (and Marcus Ray) were both Ohio kids. The Game was intensely personal to both of them and they were leaders on that team. Ray, in particular, delighted in coming home to Columbus and gloating. Further, it's unlikely that all teams focused on The Game with the exact same intensity. So, I actually wouldn't be surprised at all if those teams were more intensely focused on OSU than other teams. If there was some magical way to quantify the ethereal.
That said, I certainly think the current teams take the game serious enough. I'm sure it's the one game on their schedule they'd rather win than all others. The question isn't "Are you taking The Game as serious as Charles Woodson did?" -- it's "Are you taking The Game as serious as you need to?"
Just a thought. I can definitely see where Woodson is coming from based on his own experience, but the notion that JH's teams just don't care enough is also silly.
Yeah, D1Baseball seems to think Purdue-M is an elimination series of some sort (I'm not sure how it works with baseball if there's a 2-1 split).
It'd definitely behoove M to win the series.
The B10 baseball schedule is even more variable than hoops, if you can believe that. You only play 8 of the 13 other teams. M has played the bottom 3 teams and don't have much in terms of non-conference. Indiana has played 4 of the top 5 teams in the B10.
Purdue is a good opportunity to get some more solid wins.
It's not Clemson. It's Penn State. M can make it a three-way race. He's also not a game-player by all accounts. If he's visiting then he's taking a serious look.
His track times are stupid. 10.82/100 and 21.55/200. Defensive End.
Someone in the B10 East will get a freak athlete...and he's not a lock for OSU.
OSU will most likely bring in Grant Gunnell in 2019 and Jack Miller in 2020. Those are pass-first QBs. As is Haskins. Burrow is more athletic and a better runner, but it seems like he'll end up grad-transferring (Nebraska?).
They will use the QB as a constraint, but it will be a different look. The thing about JTB, though, is that he wasn't a great running threat. He was a great "inside runner; get me 5 yards" guy, but he had no real juice. He wasn't a threat to punish the slightest loss of gap integrity with a 50 yard run. But, UFM trusted the crap out of him to get 2-3 hard yards.
Removing JTB removes UFM's biggest (and maybe only) port in a storm. They will, almost necessarily, be more varied w/o JTB. I'm not sure, though, how that will work out for UFM. It might be that Haskins provides more RPO constraint options than JTB did (I can't imagine him not). Either way, you have to think there will be significant growing pains which may not be worked out by the time they play TCU.
That's a really weak chart. Ok, so Louisiana has 2.6x the avg number of blue chip recruits and "only" 2.5x the avg number of NFL players. And Pennsylvania is at 0.8 and 0.9 respectively. Ok, so maybe recruiting rankings slightly overvalue Louisiana and undervalue Pennsylvania if you're looking strictly at NFL players as the measurement.
The entire southeast is still well above average in terms of NFL players produced. Setting aside the silly DC and Delaware examples, the top 6 NFL producing states per capita are SEC states. Alabama has produced more NFL players than Michigan as well as Illinois.
So, I would very much suggest that the gap in quantity is pretty much as big as it would appear.
Ohio State will start a QB from the 2016 class. The same year as, you know, Peters.
Alabama will start Tua and Georgia will start Fromm. I don't think it's a radical idea to expect a 3rd year QB to be ready to play. Your mileage may vary.
247 actually provides you with a specific average recruit value. OSU was in the 94s an Michigan was in the 89s.
The Composite team score increases less with each additional recruit. The Composite team score also emphasizes top-top players more. Georgia and OSU each signed 26 and OSU had the higher average recruiting ranking (by 0.06). But, Georgia signed more top 30 type kids and finished 6 points higher in the 247 alogrithm.
Ohio State signed 13 kids ranked higher than anyone M signed. I don't know how close the classes are in actual talent -- but if you're using 247 composite rankings as your measure, they weren't at all close.
To Illustrate the fallacy of this approach, last year's M class was 296/30 = 9.8. The year before was 280/28=10. If you think this year's TCU class was better than last year's M class you're crazy.
Nebraska actually has the most difficult schedule in the West. By far.