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Lotta dorks on this chain

Halloween

Crimson Tide

Old School

Kinda like MSU’s schedule this year

I like it, a lot. A really, really good scenario here. Gonna need a good nonconference.

Somewhat different take

I don’t necessarily think it is related to being tired, but, I do think there is something to having a newfound mental focus on defense. Duncan for probably his whole life has always thought about his next shot, his next open look. That’s how scorers think. Not after January 2018. He focused on defensive possessions as much if not more than offensive possessions. I do think that mentality makes a difference.



M has had a lot of scorers in the past with a scorer’s mentality and this team has a lot too. Couple that shift in mental approach with the fact that two of three guys on the court are bad shooters to begin with (Matthews and Simpson) and it’s not surprising that we struggled.



I think this is why freshmen generally struggle defensively. They’re not used to focusing on it because they are usually the best offensive weapon on their team their entire life before entering college.

Good and bad

First of all, conditioning doesn’t mean anything at all. Unless you need to lose 30 lbs to get quicker, trying hard in winter conditioning does not improve our OL. Second, it’s NOT good that JBB would be the starter. He is a great run blocker but got owned by good DL’s last year.



On the other hand, Runyan emerging could be a good thing. It’s better that one person emerge than none, as we saw last year. Who knows how good Runyan is. He’s young and hasn’t gotten a lot of game time.

Ha

1. OSU #2 Class despite “down year” in Midwest.

2. Agreed. Probably 80% of the reason.

3. HA. HA.

4. Bama and OSU and PSU have all had strong if not stronger classes in 2016 & 2017. It doesn’t matter in recruiting if you’re good at it.

I go back and forth

On one hand, we were possibly 3 plays away from being 11-2. 1) DPJ TD catch/Peters not getting hurt against Wisconsin (two plays); 2) Metellus dropped INT against OSU; 3) Higdon fumble on 4-yard Line against SC. I have zero doubt we win OSU and SC with those two plays and am very confident we beat Wisconsin if DPJ is (correctly) ruled inbounds. What if we were 10-3 this year? Is the difference between 8-5 and 10-3 that big? Would we be ranked preseason top 5 if we went 10-3?



Look. I know we sucked. But I think it is hard to deny that we at least beat OSU and SC if those two plays go the other way.



[Don’t come back with a “yeah but Indiana” reference. We controlled that game for 55 minutes.]

He didn’t know

You watch that play and Peters is totally disoriented due to all the pressure around him. I just don’t think he had any clue where the first down was. It’s not like the yellow line is on the field. Now it’s possible that he still would have slid even if he did know where the first down was — I just don’t think he knew where he was.

Shell & Peters

If you have the game in hand, why not spread the field and give Peters as many reps as possible?



Archaic mentality.

Life changing loss.

I don't know about everyone else, but the highs ain't worth the lows. Not anymore. I was born in 1982. I've seen one NC. Every other year has been basically miserable. I have little kids now. They make me happy. I plan my weeks around M football, sometimes to their detriment. My son cried tonight when I left the house to watch the game. (He's 3. It's not possible nor fun to watch an important game with him.) Now, I'm changing my ways. I'm just too invested. Ask a logical human why we do this and they laugh. I don't think it's worth it anymore. I really don't. Why expend so much energy and emotion when the highs. Ain't. Worth. The. Lows.

Wilton

Wilton just seems to be the type of QB who struggles the first time in huge games but not so bad that you lose faith. I predict he becomes a really, really good QB this year and a preseason heisman candidate next year who is asked to be a game manager but is much better than that.



Think about Griese in 1995. He was horrible. Speight looks better than that last year and has Harbaugh's tutelage (not that Stan Parrish was a slouch). I think Speight will be good this year with a young team around him, and then the following year he is going to have some HORSES around him and he'll be a full blown stud.

Vince Young

I normally don't care enough about posts but I feel so strongly about this that I'm posting it. He would have gone undefeated on a team full of high schoolers.

Harbaugh should...

Change the date on M's camp, say it is to benefit the kids, and invite Rutgers again.

Lilyslacyslacy link

Anybody else try that link? Sounds like a pretty good deal

Last possession

Really blows my mind when coaches sit there and watch a complete CF of a final possession and not call timeout. Terrible coaching there.

The Grinch

She's gotta have some weird Grinch fetish. She's just living out her totally normal fantasy of banging the Grinch.

I'm depressed

Pretty depressed after MSU and OSU jointly F'd us yesterday.

Westgate

Call ahead and make sure they're showing it. It's a little off the strip but well worth it. The setup is basically a movie theater with everyone gambling on the game(s) and going nuts. I was there for AFC/NFC Championships and it was awesome.

I agree with all of your points

But...managing players is difficult whether they are 3, 4, or 5 star players. I don't buy the argument that it's harder to manage 5 star kids than it is 3 stars. And even if that were true, it still doesn't justify avoiding 5 stars.



We will have a decent class. I already acknowledged that. But the bottom half - rankings wise - will hinder the restoration process.

I'm not

I'm not saying that. I am not relying on my own knowledge, obviously. I'm not saying I'm a better judge of talent than Harbaugh, obviously. I'm saying that it is naive to think that dozens of big time coaches are wrong every time and Harbaugh is right every time. Again, everyone is acting like these no star players have traits and abilities that the higher ranked guys don't. Why not recruit the guy who is the same size, faster, more athletic, and more highly regarded by every other coach in America, and if you don't get him, offer the less heralded guy?

Not persuasive

This is not persuasive. Don't recruit good players because Urban had trouble "controlling" them? Comical.

And 4/5 stars don't have those frames?

Maybe a few of the highly ranked players have primadonna issues. Fine. Avoid them. It still doesn't make sense to be the best offer on a kid's board -- for 10 different class members.

Ugh

Your point implies that you think Harbaugh sees something in these no names that other coaches don't. I'm not relying on Allen Trieu. I'm relying on the fact that they don't have offers from Purdue, let alone Saban.



This isn't about trusting Harbaugh. It's about trusting 120 other coaches, several of whom have won national championships.



I'm also not saying never take a 3-star. I'm saying we should be shooting for the objectively better players instead of settling for projects in May.

You actually proved my point

Of that makeshift last minute RR/Hoke class with many 3-stars, we had 2 guys drafted.

3 players?

So 3 of our players would have started for Alabama last year? That's your point? Your point about Pipkins has already been addressed -- it is irrelevant.



I acknowledged that we have great coaching. That is also irrelevant. My point is about ceiling, on a mass level. Harbaugh can do a lot more coaching up a 5-star than he can a 3-star. The results prove it. Look at the first round draft results posted here a few months ago. Something like 80% of the draftees were 4/5 stars even though there are far fewer in the pool.



Recruiting matters. Stars matter. I'm so sick of people who think that stars don't matter because of Trey Burke. We are talking about 25 person classes. Distributions actually matter. 5-stars are proven to be better players than 4-stars on average; 4-stars better than 3-stars. Yeah there are many 3-star recruits that Harbaugh turns into studs. How many of them aren't good and fade away? The VAST majority.



Quit sugar-coating the really bad situation we are in right now with ~12 commits that no good team is even considering. It's objectively bad.



There are always diamonds in the rough. Those are the only ones you hear about. We shouldn't be recruiting based on the goal of finding them.

3-stars

Everyone can neg me until I am sent to Bolivia. I don't care. A class - even a big class - with 15-20 3-stars is a major problem. The fact that several of those 3-stars only got a ranking because they accepted an offer from Michigan is worse. Our 2016 class is only going to be ranked remotely high because of its volume.



Now, will Harbaugh do more with these recruits than virtually any other coach? Yes. Will our recruiting improve as our on-field results improve? Yes.



But everyone on this site likes to say "why all these three starzz /s haha JK," simply sarcastically regurgitating the various authors' pleas to calm TFD. And in 2020 this class is going to be looked at as a filler class with a few "gritty" starters and everyone will be talking about how this isn't our year as we get blown out by OSU. We will be annoyed that we can only have a class of 14 kids in 2019 because our roster is filled with no-stars.



Recruiting is not overrated in football. The teams with the best recruits win the most games - and the big games. We will never have sustained success if every class is comprised roughly like this class is comprised as of today. One counter is "not true we have recruited well lately and we suck," which does nothing to disprove my point.



Michigan will always and forever be able to pluck 3-stars from other programs with a last minute offer when we strike out on big fish. The idea of offering these kids now and accepting commitments is asinine and it's going to show on the field.



People like to say "look at player x! He was a three star and a good starter for us!" Well we suck. And we have sucked for almost 10 years. Those "good starters" wouldn't see the field on a good team.



Bad depth is not only worthless but with limited scholarships is a major ankle weight. I'm rooting for massive attrition in this class and everyone else should be too.

Really not close to what the texts say

The texts say that McNally is there to ensure that the refs don't re-inflate the balls way above 12.5 if they come in at 12.4

Sounds like proof to me that recruiting rankings are bullshit

.

Tie for first

Stefon Diggs and Ohio jersey sales

It's very simple

If the Patriots did something to the balls after the ref inspection, it's cheating, and Tom surely knew. If not, it's not cheating. Either way it's only a big deal as a matter of principle, and not of practical significance.

Stanza

The best part of this game is that the write up did not use the word "stanza."



Jk, Ace. You're the best.

Possibly stupid question

Is John Morton former Lion "Johnny Morton"? Went to USC...BLAH blah blah?

Celebrate?

Does anyone really think Jim Harbaugh gives a flying fuck about his birthday? That alone undermines this guy's credibility. I think he's coming, but come on!

Great game. We will be very

Great game. We will be very good and contend for the B10 Championship. However, we will need a charmed draw in the tourney to make the FF. Our DREB is atrocious. I can't even imagine playing a team like Kentucky or Duke with lots of athletic length. Hopefully we can avoid those types of teams. Doyle showed some promise again though, at least.

"Preference"?

Are you serious?!?!?!?!?!?! Michigan should crawl on its knees until it has nothing but bone and then keep borrowing skin until there isn't any left and then, as nothing but a bloody skeleton, offer Jim Harbaugh $20 million dollars per year. "PREFERENCE"?!!?!?!?!?!?!?!

This article is utterly worthless

Not criticizing the OP, but this article says nothing. He just recited facts every person knows.

DH is right

He's correct that the decision is based on the failure of the football program during his tenure. Why is everyone so defensive about that? It's the same at dozens of other schools: if your biggest revenue-generating sport sucks, the AD gets fired.



DB actually deserves some kudos for his attention to non-revenue sports. I hope the next AD does the same thing. I also hope the next AD doesn't schedule Appalachian State like a moron. For me, as soon as that schedule was released, I knew DB was not the right man for the job. With college sports, any publicity is not always good publicity, and any revenue is not always good revenue.

Sad

Reflection of our program. Petty. Pathetic. Inferior. Childish. The same adjectives apply to Delano Hill's personal foul early in the game: he was out of position and got trucked by a QB. TRUCKED. And because he was out of position and got trucked, he was the one getting shit-talked and he reacted like a little kid. Had he been in position, and had he fitted up Cook and drilled him (instead of getting trucked), like you should any QB who leaves the pocket, there would have been no shit talking from Cook, and Hill would not have had to instinctively push Cook when Cook got in his face. How's that for a sentence.

You are largely correct but...

The coaches don't teach DG to throw a five yard hitch into the ground to put us in 3rd and 11, or to throw 5 yard out patterns at guys' back hips, or to throw bubble screens high and behind guys, or to throw slants low, or to throw a middle screen like an option pitch into a vacant space with only an MSU player, or to float a drag route into a guy standing there waiting to either decapitate the WR or intercept it for a TD, or deep balls on the inside shoulder of a guy being covered inside-our. The coaches can't fix those problems no matter what. Sorry. I wish the guy the best in life.

You are a childish idiot and should

Be banned. People on this site have adult conversations. Grow up or join another fanbase where you fit in, because you don't here.

Why do you care?

He wins. His college players love him. End of story. If he clashes with other egotists, who cares. Come on. Anyone who claims they don't want Harbaugh because of personality reasons should just keep rooting for Hoke to stay on. And therefore keep rooting to never be good (but recruit guys who aren't felons but who nonetheless would love JH equally).

Legends jerseys

Can someone explain to me how the practice of robbing any future star from having their own place in M football history in the form of a retired jersey number is a good thing? I think it is a stupid idea designed to sell more jerseys, and the significance of those jersey numbers is undermined or devalued more often than it ever should be (see Countess, Blake vs. ND; or Avery, Courtney, in general; or Gardner, Devin, in general).

No one knows

Whether Shane was concussed. Until we know that we shouldn't be firing anyone (at least for that reason). What should have happened is the trainer should have given him a concussion test. Shane could have been totally fine though mentally, and I thought he wobbled because his ankle gave out on him. It wasn't clear at all that he was woozy. On the other hand, the ankle thing is a non-issue. It's a sprained ankle. People play on sprained ankles all the time. I would be disappointed if our starting QB DIDN'T stay in for a bit with a sprained ankle. Should Hoke have been more cautious? Yes. Was Shane "obviously" concussed? We don't know.

Any info on Shane?

Or are we all just assuming he was severely concussed? His ankle was clearly fucked. And they showed him several times talking to other guys on the bench normally, with his ankle under an ice pack. It's very possible that he couldn't stand bc of his ankle. Look, Hoke should be fired Monday, but let's not all act like a bunch of fucking moms here. We have no clue whether Shane had a concussion or whether he had a sore ankle. Isaih thomas had a sore ankle in the 3rd quarter of the '88 finals and nobody thought chuck daly should have been fired.

You are dead wrong

So, as far as Lloyd goes, you are all high. Lloyd won 10 games in 2004 and was a pube away from winning the rose bowl against Vince young, who won the NC with basically the same team the next year. 2 years later, he was 11-0 going into the OSU game and probably would have played for the NC had crable not had a dubious late-hit penalty called on him. He retired one year later after beating the team that straddled that loss with 2 NC's. WHAT THE FUCK ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT

There is nothing "ironic" about...

The fact that Chip Kelly is also a former PAC-12 coach, idiot writer of dumb article.

Utah will go 2-7 in the PAC 12 this year

And Notre Dame will lose 3 games minimum. What else do we have to see? It is like we are all giving him the benefit of the doubt because he only lost by 1 to OSU last year at home. Like that was some kind of moral victory. Like we had suffered some rash of injuries and we were some likable underdog. We all expected to lose that game to a 2 loss OSU squad and were pleasantly surprised when the game was entertaining. What does that say about our program? The fact that he doesn't know what play is called on either side of the ball every time is insane. Brady Hoke is a position coach. Period.

The OP is correct

The biggest help to Michigan in the grand scheme of things is for MSU to suck.  If Michigan runs the table we will get in regardless of what MSU does on Saturday.  Dantonio should be any Michigan fan's most hated sports figure in the world.  He relentlessly cheap shots Michigan and his entire purpose in life is to beat them and to overtake Michigan as the preeminent in-state program.  A win on Saturday (or any Saturday) only helps his cause.  Screw conference allegiance.  That's fine with Wisconsin last Saturday (which, if they had won, would make rooting for MSU even more unforgivable), but not our archi rivals -- especially MSU which is clearly the better program over the last 4-5 years.  I'm hoping MSU goes 1-11 in the regular season.  

I agree so hard

Harbaugh is a whole different level of coach. Ridiculous, nearly immediate success at every level. No blemishes besides being an asshole, which, as long as he's not ruining kids' lives like Saban does on an annual basis, who cares? I think it is possible that Hoke can be a great coach here. But proven success trumps hopeful potential. Hoke can talk about expectations at Michigan and fluff our junk all he wants, but there is no doubt in my mind that JH would fulfill those expectations and then some, without sacrificing ANYTHING from a tradition perspective. The guy played for Bo. Isn't that what every older fan wants? The guy plays smash mouth football. Isn't that what everyone (besides Brian) wants? The guy wins. Isn't that what everyone wants? Come on, folks. Don't act like we value friendliness over winning when half the fanbase wanted Carr gone by the time he retired (like morons). I do really like Hoke and recognize his recruiting success but does anybody doubt JH could replicate that success if not eclipse it? And haven't we already seen JH succeed on the field with middling recruits anyways?



I'm a firm believer that the truly elite coaches are not perfect. There aren't many elite coaches, and if we can get one whose imperfection is being too blunt, we would be stupid (but loyal!) to pass it up.

Absolutely correct

And there's no way it could have been a block so it's M's ball either way. That's either a charge or a no-call and in either scenario M gets possession. Stauskas missing second of two is inexcusable btw. Imagine if UT hit the half courter?

All that matters is MSU

MSU is not going to lose again this year unless we beat them in AA. OSU will not beat MSU in the season finale. MSU is way too good. They'll be full strength at that point too (barring any other injuries). We have to beat MSU. Period.