OT: Fighting in Hockey
Martin's punch on Kearney this week triggered a discussion yesterday about sportsmanship and toughness. It seemed to me that there were two sides to this discussion.
1) People defending/applauding Martin's toughness and aggression. People argue that fighting is a part of hockey. Maybe Martin was a little over the top but this is part of the sports.
2) People assserting that this is not the kind of behavior that we want representing the Unviersity of Michigan.
Althought I understand both of these opinions, I feel that there is a larger issue at play here. That problem is fighting in hockey.
Fighting is accepted as a part of the game, especially at the pro level. This attitude/philosophy permiates through the various levels of play. I had my hockey career ended on punch similar to the one Marting through. I legally checked a guy and he turned around and punched my head into the boards knocking me out cold. The dissapointment of having my hockey careeer taken away from because someone was frustrated is tough to swallow.
I understand that agression and violence is a part of sports. I played 4 years of college lacrosse, and sure people got hurt from violent hits, but atleast they were in the flow of the game. A brawl after the whistle is simple not an option in the sport of lacrosse.
I think the NHL needs to take stand on this issue. There should not be a penalty for fighting because fighting is not an option. When the whistle blows the play is dead. Anything after that gets you tossed immidietly, with a pending suspension. We have enough head injuries already, so lets get rid of the sensless ones.
January 18th, 2016 at 6:00 PM ^
toughen up buttercup. I've bee hit in the head at least twelveteen times. I'm fine. Sharp as a whistle!
January 18th, 2016 at 6:07 PM ^
You misspelt wissle
January 18th, 2016 at 6:20 PM ^
You'd make a great rocket surgeon.
January 18th, 2016 at 6:24 PM ^
You mean brain scientist.
January 18th, 2016 at 6:33 PM ^
He means brain rocket.
January 18th, 2016 at 6:00 PM ^
Hot take city
January 18th, 2016 at 6:29 PM ^
Boxing and MMA for the same reason. Just play some nice music while they shadow box. Best choreography wins!
Or, give everyone a participation trophy.
January 19th, 2016 at 12:41 AM ^
There's an obvious difference when fighting is the sport as opposed to having nothing to do with the actual sport. If the outcome of a fight had any effect on the game other than to send a guy to the box, you might have a point.
January 18th, 2016 at 6:01 PM ^
It was a cheap shot. Not a fight when the opponent is already on the ice and a linesman is on top of him.
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January 18th, 2016 at 6:02 PM ^
I wouldnt say it was a cheap shot. It will cost him dearly.
January 18th, 2016 at 6:18 PM ^
Which makes it clear to me that you aren't a fan of the game.
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January 18th, 2016 at 6:23 PM ^
I prefer bad mitten.
January 18th, 2016 at 6:26 PM ^
I like good mutton as well as good koala, the meat gets so tender over an open flame.
January 18th, 2016 at 6:32 PM ^
NO! YOUR meat gets tender over an open flame!!!
January 18th, 2016 at 6:26 PM ^
I like good mutton as well as good koala, the meat gets so tender over an open flame.
January 18th, 2016 at 11:05 PM ^
or as they say, you blave.
January 18th, 2016 at 6:28 PM ^
I don't know if you watched the game or not, but there were a lot of cheap shots coming from Ohio State players the whole game. Late hits. High hits. Punches thrown after the whistle.
The game was out of control due to poor officiating. You allow players to go at each other's throats and rip each other's helmets off with no calls for either team. Then you penalize Michigan not even a minute later for a completely legal check. Just makes no sense.
Not condoning the (somewhat) cheap shot by Martin. But the fact is, Ohio State was playing extremely cheap and dirty the entire game with little-to-nothing being done by the officials to control the situation. At that point, Michigan isn't going to get pushed around anymore, and I'd expect any team to do the same.
Fighting is a part of the game. Always has been, and should always be. But situations like this arise when the referees refuse to take control of a game that has obviously turned chippy. When you let any team get away with cheap shit all game, eventually the other team will throw it right back. That's when it escalates to what happened last night.
January 18th, 2016 at 7:00 PM ^
Yes I was there. There was stuff both ways after whistles. I like cutler Martin a lot and think he let his emotions get the best of him but you still can't ouch a guy in the head while he's laying on the ice with a linesman right there.
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January 18th, 2016 at 7:07 PM ^
Well with all of the other post-whistle scrums going on all game, it sure seemed like you could get away with that punch. Again. It's a result of the officials allowing the game to become out of their control. For example, you cannot let a guy rip the helmet of another player and throw punches and not call a penalty on ANYONE. Not even off-setting minor penalties. Or that blatant hold on the 5-on-3 to start the 3rd period right at the referees feet. Call the obvious penalties and the cheap shots at the very least and you won't have fights like that. Simple as that.
As you said, Martin's emotions got the better of him. But the officials allowed the game to get to that point. There's nothing more frustrating than blatant cheap shots not being called all game by the officials.
January 18th, 2016 at 6:24 PM ^
was the two goons that attacked him after the whistle. You won't find many in this sport to let that slide.
January 18th, 2016 at 7:01 PM ^
he should have been the second guy in history after Happy Gilmore to remove his skate and try to stab him with it. . .. /s
January 18th, 2016 at 7:14 PM ^
The mixup at the end of the game started with boka delivering a hard cross check in front and dancs skating right into the same buckeye after the buzzer. Dancs started throwing punches. That's when kearney came charging in and pulled Martin off the back of a buckeye.
I just watched the end over again on dvr.
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January 18th, 2016 at 7:51 PM ^
so I trust your hockey knowledge. I watched it a couple of times and only focused on Martin.
Good input on this thread!
January 18th, 2016 at 9:06 PM ^
I recorded the 3am rebroadcast because I wanted to see what exactly happened at the end. At the rink I thought Martin was defending himself and both were swinging (I sit in opposite end).
I'm glad I watched it today because it completely changed my view.
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January 18th, 2016 at 6:30 PM ^
I would say the pile drive into the ice was a cheap shot. Buckeyes tried to punk is.
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January 18th, 2016 at 6:37 PM ^
Exactly this. A fight involves two players and a series of ongoing agreements
Just clocking a defenceless player is bush league whether or not you think they deserve it.
January 18th, 2016 at 7:04 PM ^
Exactly. It doesn't matter if the guy deserved a punch to the face or not. When he's in a position to do nothing about it it's dirty.
Try to look at it from the other perspective; if cutler was laying there with a linesman on him and a buckeye clocked him right in the face the same people who are arguing for it not being dirty would be screaming bloody murder and wanting the buckeye suspended for the rest of the season
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January 18th, 2016 at 8:10 PM ^
Self-righteousness is not a good look when it comes to cheap shots.
Skate away. You'll see them again...
January 18th, 2016 at 7:22 PM ^
And you have been an asshole instigator all game shut your fucking mouth and quit talking shit.
January 19th, 2016 at 12:35 AM ^
I played prep school hockey jr's and college it was a cheap shot. That's not fighting. Lol. Now I've thrown a few of cheap shots myself and gotten some
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January 18th, 2016 at 6:01 PM ^
I couldn't imagine the Red Wings and Avalanche not fighting in the late 90s. That defined the sport for years to come and still does to some extent.
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January 18th, 2016 at 6:43 PM ^
You realize that hockey is a thing outside Detroit right? And that the late 90s Wings and Avs surely did not define the sport in any way shape or form.
Good teams, sure, but hardly "defined the sport" going forward like the Broad Street Bullies or 70's Bruins (who redefined violence in the game), 70's Soviets (who made Canadians reflect on our souls), 50s/60s Habs (who redefined winning...sadly into the 70's) or 80's Oilers (who redefined offense).
January 18th, 2016 at 7:21 PM ^
I agree with NFG on this one... The Wings and Avs rivalry dominated and did define much of the sport during that time.
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January 18th, 2016 at 7:28 PM ^
No it's not exclusive to Detroit, but the Wings and Avs were the dynasties of the 1990s and the Wings kept it up after the lockout. I would argue it didn't define the sport, but it also hasn't had the same level of rivalry since.
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January 18th, 2016 at 8:15 PM ^
I think "defined the sport" seemed silly to me is all. Particularly if you take a long (non-D centric view)
FWIW, I doubt you'll ever see lengthy rivalries again in hockey. Bettman's approach is to skew to parity much like the NFL. You see this with the Cap and Free Agency as defined in the CBA. Chicago might be close with 3 in 6 years but look at the management job (and ridiculous trade success) done there. If that team had just been able to keep all their talent like the 80's Oilers...imagine.
January 18th, 2016 at 8:21 PM ^
I agree 100% with your comment on rivalries re: the parity shift we've seen in the NHL. One on hand it makes more games interesting (see: 3 pt games now), but I feel like we will see less of those "classic" games/series/rivalries.
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January 18th, 2016 at 9:01 PM ^
The only chance is for two teams to meet in the playoffs for a few years in a row. The Wings-Avs rivalry heated up in the 96 conference finals let's not forget.
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January 18th, 2016 at 9:09 PM ^
Russian 5 redefined puck possession hockey in the NHL while playing in the trap era (damn you NJ Devils). Those 90s Wings teams were fun to watch. Just imagine how good Sergei would be in today's NHL.
January 18th, 2016 at 9:49 PM ^
you never heard of the 1980s Edmonton Oilers...speaking of possession.
January 18th, 2016 at 6:01 PM ^
Lacrosse brawls do happen.
January 18th, 2016 at 6:24 PM ^
No they don't. I started playing lacrosse when I was in elementary school and played in college. Never once did I witness a brawl. Only once did I ever see a fight (and it really wasn't a fight, more of a single punch thrown).
I'm sure they have happened but brawls in lacrosse would be similar to brawls in football or basketball. Very rare and not tolerated at all.
January 18th, 2016 at 6:39 PM ^
Well I played high school and college lacrosse also (at UM). The fights I witnessed were always at off-season indoor leagues, but they did happen occasionally.
January 18th, 2016 at 6:03 PM ^
Grow up
January 18th, 2016 at 6:05 PM ^
Hot Cake city. I love hot cakes.
January 18th, 2016 at 6:05 PM ^
As was discussed yesterday,it's an officiating issue more than anything. Hockey players self-police. A fight happens usually when the boiling point is reached.
Countless cheap shots happen during a game. Even annoying slashes in between pads are enough to get a player frustrated. Take away fights, and there's no repercussions for that behavior.
Either that or the refs call everything, and someone is constantly in the penalty box. There would be no flow to the game.
January 18th, 2016 at 6:31 PM ^
exactly. If the refs refuse to control the cheap shit, there will eventually be retaliation. Completely 100% the referees fault.
I played hockey for 16 years and that was always the mindset. If the referees refuse to call the cheap shit, then the cheap shit gets thrown right back and it eventually escalates into fighting.
January 18th, 2016 at 7:27 PM ^
Look, I don't know hockey that well at all, but if there continue to be countless cheap shots during games are the "repercussions" really serving as a disincentive?
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January 18th, 2016 at 7:32 PM ^
was in Dumb and Dumber in the scene where they went to a party dressed in those outragious baby blue and orange suits and Jim Carrey hit Jeff Daniels with his cane in the back of the legs with a wicked two hander. OMG I laughed so hard it hurt me.
January 18th, 2016 at 6:06 PM ^
fighting is what makes hockey watchable. The should have something similar to the RedZOne where they only show the fighing highlights. MOAR fights!